Fans are our own worst enemy at times

[Ram-Alf]

13 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

On a personal level, I am delighted to see that in the written form on a public platform, but for those of you under 30, I feel a need to translate...

"Pictures" = "Cinema"!  

?  

I was in a Quandry with that term...how about "the Flicks" or "Flix" if using text speak ?

[Tamworthram]

21 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Happy, Not happy, It's not an issue for me, As I said just another nail in the coffin, So i'll give you my reason, Here we have a person being employed by security to listen and write down ANY abusive language, What if any training will that person have? This person will be in the main the "eyes and ears" for those up the chain, Now the person will have a very big plate to put his/her statement, Example, Fan shouts "book him ref book him", The person misstook what he said as "duck him ref duck him", This person being a person that has been given the authority to write this down, Now sees him/herself as being of the upmost importance to "clean up society" by doing a job, Like a "Traffic Warden" does. Self importance to some is more important than the job they are doing.

Maybe the next port of call is the school playground, Or the pictures, Or a march to a football ground, Or maybe walking down an escalator with your guide dog.

Remember where you are living if it be the UK, Our cival liberties are being eroded daily, We are becomg a society where Syria, North Korea, Belarus, Kazakhstan just to mention 4 will gladly arrest you on the word of someone else.

Enjoy your Sunday lunch?

It doesn’t say write down ANY abusive language. You’ve assumed that to fit your narrative. If they have to write down everything they’d need a damn big notebook. For all you know the training they receive may detail the type of language and behaviour they are expected to look and listen out for.

I hope it’s just the more serious stuff such as racist comments or violent behaviour. If that’s the case, I fully support the initiative. Stamping out excessive foul and abusive language, racist comment and violent conduct is not an erosion of civil liberties.

[Foreveram]

21 minutes ago, angieram said:

Personal opinion is fans can swear as much as they like, but physical violence shouldn't be tolerated. 

Young bloke in front of us, scrambling over bloke next to him and got through to netting, where he was fighting some young slip of a female steward to crawl across netting to Boro fans. He was severely overweight, netting wouldn't support him and he was eventually hauled back. He did this several times - I would have ejected him from ground pronto but nothing was done. 

I am just relieved he wasn't next to me. I don't know how Foreveram put up with him.

I honestly think people like him should be banned from football. 

He never watched any of the game, just solely there to try and get at Boro fans.

I personally hope some of them found him after match! 

Not sure he was aware there was a football match taking place.?

[uttoxram75]

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I was in a Quandry with that term...how about "the Flicks" or "Flix" if using text speak ?

Flea pit?

[Foreveram]

34 minutes ago, Ramos said:

Agreed - never seen anything like it - boro fans were looking for fights. At one point I was basically kettled with some boro fans, who were being aggressively abused by…. Boro fans hurling abuse down at us all. Most the people were pointing at their badges to say they were boro. It was utterly confusing.
 

Everytime a group of police ran somewhere Hurds of boro fans followed. It was pretty disgusting tbh, I’ve never witnessed anything like it. Imagine if they’d lost or we’d come back. 
 

I take it you weren’t around in the seventies 

[Ram-Alf]

8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

It doesn’t say write down ANY abusive language. You’ve assumed that to fit your narrative. If they have to write down everything they’d need a damn big notebook. For all you know the training they receive may detail the type of language and behaviour they are expected to look and listen out for.

I hope it’s just the more serious stuff such as racist comments or violent behaviour. If that’s the case, I fully support the initiative. Stamping out excessive foul and abusive language, racist comment and violent conduct is not an erosion of civil liberties.

So the "steward" would have to have either a good memory, Look for the nearest "Senior Steward" or maybe a tape recorder, As the advert stated, You maybe requiered to attend the court as a "witness".

I'm defending the accused, I ask the witness where is his/her evidence, His/her evidence is...I heard him/her say this, Pretty sure if the accused was of good character I could win the case as the accused had also a witness to say he/she didn't say what he was being accused of.

Narrative

NEXT!

Edited February 13, 2022 by Unlucky Alf

[Mucker1884]

11 minutes ago, angieram said:

Personal opinion is fans can swear as much as they like, but physical violence shouldn't be tolerated. 

Young bloke in front of us, scrambling over bloke next to him and got through to netting, where he was fighting some young slip of a female steward to crawl across netting to Boro fans. He was severely overweight, netting wouldn't support him and he was eventually hauled back. He did this several times - I would have ejected him from ground pronto but nothing was done. 

I am just relieved he wasn't next to me. I don't know how Foreveram put up with him.

I honestly think people like him should be banned from football. 

He never watched any of the game, just solely there to try and get at Boro fans.

I personally hope some of them found him after match! 

I must confess, I was once pulled up for swearing.
Not long after moving from the SE corner (When it was still ours, obvs) and into the NE Corner.  Officially, I'm a staircase width outside the "Family Stand". 
Muckerette was with me instead of my freebie under 12 grandson, and we were playing The Red Dogs.  Feelings were high, as per!
My rants were not particularly personal, and certainly not racist/homophobic etc, but were most definitely interspersed with "Industrial language".  "FFS Ref", "Are you effing blind".  That sort of thing.  (I might have mentioned two hats, but I wouldn't have used the C word... but only because the "lady" sat next to me is famously against the use of such a word!)
The guy in front turned and asked me to cool it.  He had a young girl with him, maybe 11/12/13 or so, and demanded I took such company into consideration!
In return, I asked him to keep his nose out.  Requested he found some passion, and demanded he took the occasion into consideration... all interspersed with similar "Industrial language" of course!

Half time came, and upon my return, I felt the sudden urge to apologise.  The sudden realisation that he was right, and totally within his rights to have spoken up.  My personal shame and embarrassment aside, It was all rather gentlemanly, handshakes were offered and apology accepted with grace.
In the ensuing seasons, whilst we haven't exactly become buddies, we have shaken hands at arrival to each and every game, and nodded a polite acknowledgement to each other.  Same on the couple of occasions we have bumped into each other out on civvy street.  And have even man-hugged on the rare occasion we have scored an important/decisive goal in an important/decisive game (Usually v Red Dogs, or the odd PO semi... A bucket of cold water was required to part us during The Deforestation match!)

He's not been there this season... he's become a steward, elsewhere in the ground, apparently.

I guess I'd finish by saying that... in my opinion... bad language is at least expected, and should possibly be tolerated in the South Stand, but in or around the family stand, maybe not so much!

?

 

 

[Mucker1884]

16 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I was in a Quandry with that term...how about "the Flicks" or "Flix" if using text speak ?

Good God.  No!

What are you... American?  ?

[Tamworthram]

22 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

So the "steward" would have to have either a good memory, Look for the nearest "Senior Steward" or maybe a tape recorder, As the advert stated, You maybe requiered to attend the court as a "witness".

I'm defending the accused, I ask the witness where is his/her evidence, His/her evidence is...I heard him/her say this, Pretty sure if the accused was of good character I could win the case as the accused had also a witness to say he/she didn't say what he was being accused of.

NEXT!

It all depends on what action the club chooses to take. I suspect only a tiny minority of cases would actually end up in court and in those cases the CPS would have to decide whether they considered there was sufficient evidence. Perhaps, in most cases, it would result in a warning being issued to the person who purchased the ticket for that seat.

With regard to needing a good memory or a tape recorder, again more evidence to suggest they’re not being asked to write down/record/remember ANY abusive language (I notice you’ve not responded on that point or the erosion of public liberties). Maybe (none of us know what their detailed remit is or training will be) they’re just being asked to remember the more serious incidents which wouldn’t be too difficult. “I heard the person sitting in seat xxxx shout “xxxxxxxxxxxxxx” on three occasions during the first half” or “I saw the person sitting in seat xxxx throw an object onto the pitch after approximately xx minutes of the second half” might be enough to justify a warning being issued but maybe not enough without further supporting evidence such as CCTV pictures to go to court.

We’re both making some assumptions but if we’re serious about stamping out the more serious stuff then I don’t see it being a bad thing.

 

p.s. Don’t forget, this is a targeted initiative and not just random. It talks about areas/seats where complaints have been received. So, maybe this is the supporting evidence the club is looking for in order to take action following those complaints.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Tamworthram

[Ram-Alf]

Just now, Mucker1884 said:

Good God.  No!

What are you... American?  ?

Nope, I know you're from Chadd, And so am I "Chadd Lad" Where Aldi is now on Notts Road, That used to be the Gloria/Essaldo picture house in the 60s 70s, I'd be there every Saturday afternoon in the 60s to watch, The Little Rascals, Rocket Man, Ali and his Talking Camel, A Looney Tunes Cartoon and other Childrens entertainment, 9d pocket money, 3d to get in and a Tanner to spend...plenty of tuffees to munch on?

Have a Nice Day ?

[Tyler Durden]

43 minutes ago, angieram said:

Personal opinion is fans can swear as much as they like, but physical violence shouldn't be tolerated. 

Young bloke in front of us, scrambling over bloke next to him and got through to netting, where he was fighting some young slip of a female steward to crawl across netting to Boro fans. He was severely overweight, netting wouldn't support him and he was eventually hauled back. He did this several times - I would have ejected him from ground pronto but nothing was done. 

I am just relieved he wasn't next to me. I don't know how Foreveram put up with him.

I honestly think people like him should be banned from football. 

He never watched any of the game, just solely there to try and get at Boro fans.

I personally hope some of them found him after match! 

I blame the lifestyle choices children and young adults are making now with their diets made up of convenience and junk foods and lack of exercise sat in front of their PS4s  in their skiddies. 

Or maybe he was trying to formulate some form of exercise by undertaking a cargo net ascent. 

[Chester40]

45 minutes ago, angieram said:

Personal opinion is fans can swear as much as they like, but physical violence shouldn't be tolerated. 

Young bloke in front of us, scrambling over bloke next to him and got through to netting, where he was fighting some young slip of a female steward to crawl across netting to Boro fans. He was severely overweight, netting wouldn't support him and he was eventually hauled back. He did this several times - I would have ejected him from ground pronto but nothing was done. 

I am just relieved he wasn't next to me. I don't know how Foreveram put up with him.

I honestly think people like him should be banned from football. 

He never watched any of the game, just solely there to try and get at Boro fans.

I personally hope some of them found him after match! 

Really really disappointed with those comments.

'Severely overweight '?? Actually, my shirt was just tight as it was incorrectly labelled, plus I have a gluten allergy! I demand an apology for your body shaming, insensitivity and discriminatory language.  

[Mucker1884]

1 minute ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Nope, I know you're from Chadd, And so am I "Chadd Lad" Where Aldi is now on Notts Road, That used to be the Gloria/Essaldo picture house in the 60s 70s, I'd be there every Saturday afternoon in the 60s to watch, The Little Rascals, Rocket Man, Ali and his Talking Camel, A Looney Tunes Cartoon and other Childrens entertainment, 9d pocket money, 3d to get in and a Tanner to spend...plenty of tuffees to munch on?

Have a Nice Day ?

Must admit, "Flicks" is a term I am familiar with, but never used personally.  I know "Why" it was called that, but no idea "Where" it started, so my reference to The good old U S of A was a complete shot in the dark, if I'm honest!

I do (just) remember that building being a cinema (or still looking like one, at least) but I'm a decade or so behind you, (b. '63) so never attended. 
My Saturday mornings were spent at The Odeon on London Rd.  Was never a fan of The ABC.  Probably around the time the little "d" was being replaced by a little "p", although the odd tanner or thru'penny bit were still around!  ?  

?

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I notice you’ve not responded on that point or the erosion of public liberties).

We’re both making some assumptions but if we’re serious about stamping out the more serious stuff then I don’t see it being a bad thing.

civil liberties are the "rights" or "freedoms" which underpin democracy. This usually means the right to vote, the right to life, the prohibition on torture, security of the person, the right to personal liberty and due process of law, freedom of expression and freedom of association.

Assumptions are the bedrock of message boards, That's why we post, It's an opinion, Or in some cases fact, The owner and the Mods on here opporate a form of "censorship", Other message boards do not, I used to run one where threats of death were common place, But it was just words.

Ricky Gervais will often argue a "joke is just words" unfortunately for some "Words" can be hurtfull.

[Ram-Alf]

9 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Must admit, "Flicks" is a term I am familiar with, but never used personally.  I know "Why" it was called that, but no idea "Where" it started, so my reference to The good old U S of A was a complete shot in the dark, if I'm honest!

I do (just) remember that building being a cinema (or still looking like one, at least) but I'm a decade or so behind you, (b. '63) so never attended. 
My Saturday mornings were spent at The Odeon on London Rd.  Was never a fan of The ABC.  Probably around the time the little "d" was being replaced by a little "p", although the odd tanner or thru'penny bit were still around!  ?  

?

My Mother worked there when it was the Gaumont as an usherette in the 60s, She'd get 2 complimentary tickets every week, So My Dad and I would often go FOC, It took the name Odean when the Odean closed on St Peters Street.

The term "flicks" I believe came from the very early days of film, When they were 1st shown the film would flicker on the screen and the subtitiles(before sound)would "flick" hence "flicks"

[atherstoneram]

13 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Must admit, "Flicks" is a term I am familiar with, but never used personally.  I know "Why" it was called that, but no idea "Where" it started, so my reference to The good old U S of A was a complete shot in the dark, if I'm honest!

I do (just) remember that building being a cinema (or still looking like one, at least) but I'm a decade or so behind you, (b. '63) so never attended. 
My Saturday mornings were spent at The Odeon on London Rd.  Was never a fan of The ABC.  Probably around the time the little "d" was being replaced by a little "p", although the odd tanner or thru'penny bit were still around!  ?  

?

No such luxuries for us in the Alfreton area, it was Saturday morning matinee at Alfreton "flix", got in cheaper if you were a member of the "tufty club". Upstairs front seats in the balcony peashooter at the ready.

[angieram]

24 minutes ago, Chester40 said:

Really really disappointed with those comments.

'Severely overweight '?? Actually, my shirt was just tight as it was incorrectly labelled, plus I have a gluten allergy! I demand an apology for your body shaming, insensitivity and discriminatory language.  

Stuff that! He had a pie in one hand, a large glass of coke in the other, was slabbering and throwing it all over while trying to simultaneously stick fingers up and chant at the opposition. Directly in front of him was a family with a kid of five or six having to put up with the obscene behaviour. 

He was a caricature of everything that is wrong with football. 

[Tamworthram]

5 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

civil liberties are the "rights" or "freedoms" which underpin democracy. This usually means the right to vote, the right to life, the prohibition on torture, security of the person, the right to personal liberty and due process of law, freedom of expression and freedom of association.

Assumptions are the bedrock of message boards, That's why we post, It's an opinion, Or in some cases fact, The owner and the Mods on here opporate a form of "censorship", Other message boards do not, I used to run one where threats of death were common place, But it was just words.

Ricky Gervais will often argue a "joke is just words" unfortunately for some "Words" can be hurtfull.

I agree this board has to be based on assumptions to an extent but those assumptions have to be reasonable. In my opinion, I don’t think it is reasonable to assume the remit is write down ANY form of abusive language. 
My assumption, based on the advert, is that the club have received complaints about the language or behaviour from people sitting in certain seats and they want to gather supporting evidence in order to take action. 
 

With regard to civil liberties, surely you know that the freedom of expression doesn’t actually give you the right to say or do absolutely anything you want? Here is an extract from an article on the Public Order Act:

Section 4 of the Public Order Act 1986 (POA), which makes it an offence for a person to use “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour that causes, or is likely to cause, another person harassment, alarm or distress”. This law has been revised over the years to include language that is deemed to incite “racial and religious hatred”, as well as “hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation” and language that “encourages terrorism”.

[Brammie Steve]

Very very few true fans of any club are hoping that Derby County Football Club ceases to exist.

We have a massive fanbase and I refuse to believe that the vast majority do not wish evil on Mr Gibson, Mr Sharp or anyone else. Think of the times when you meet a Forest/Leeds/Millwall or any other fan. I find that there is much more that unites than divides us. We certainly don’t trot out insulting phrases which some idiots chant at matches under the cloak of anonymity.
Keep the faith.

Onwards and upwards.

[RoyMac5]

54 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

I take it you weren’t around in the seventies 

It does sound like that! ? However also sounds like few of the police/security were 'around' then either. I think it sounds like much of how to deal with hooliganism at matches has been 'forgotten'?

Edited February 13, 2022 by RoyMac5