The Administration Thread

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

 

Arbitration is legally binding without appeal

 

Is it right that there is no appeal? (I’d wondered if there might be but did not check ). Even if there is, if this is fast tracked they would have an appeal panel lined up to hear it very quickly id think 

[strawhillram]

If the arbitration result is not satisfactory then it is said that it will become a civil case in a court. We could do that if it goes against us, but so could MFC or WW if they strongly believe they have a case.

[Tamworthram]

14 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think 4 is wrong. In a civil case it's going to be about likely, not definite outcomes. 4 should be, 'what was the percentage chance of Boro getting promoted?'

Agreed and it should be well less than a simple 1 in 4 chance. How often does the team finishing 6th win the play offs? I'm sure someone has got the stats.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I certainly agree the claims will fail. What I don’t agree with is the suggestion that EFl is in a position to MAKE them go away.

Arbitration is binding so if we win the claims go out of the window, i'e. they have gone away. Nothing to see for the EFL anymore, regardless of how much that might disappoint them. Job done.

[Tyler Durden]

15 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think 4 is wrong. In a civil case it's going to be about likely, not definite outcomes. 4 should be, 'what was the percentage chance of Boro getting promoted?'

In a civil case the burden on proof is against the claimant that they produce sufficient evidence which on the balance of probabilities satisfies the court that the event was more likely to have happened than not.

So Boro do not submit conclusive evidence to say that they definitely would have won the playoffs but enough evidence to show that they were more likely to win the playoffs than the other teams involved. 

How they even intend to demonstrate this is beyond me. 

[StaffsRam]

7 minutes ago, StrawHillRam said:

If the arbitration result is not satisfactory then it is said that it will become a civil case in a court. We could do that if it goes against us, but so could MFC or WW if they strongly believe they have a case.

Going civil would be very costly, so they’d have to consider how much they’d want to pursue that given that the likely scenario if they win would be us liquidating and them getting **** all anyway. Even if they win, they lose.

[duncanjwitham]

It's hard to see how taking it to a civil court is allowed under this provision (EFL rules): 

Sections 67 and 68 are basically dealing with issues about Jurisdiction of the tribunal and serious errors in how the tribunal was carried out.  So unless the LAP seriously screw something up, there's no chance of it going any further.

[strawhillram]

I can accept any decisión (good or bad) provided it is done fairly, independently and transparently.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

So unless the LAP seriously screw something up, there's no chance of it going any further.

The EFL is not involved in the arbitration. It is independent. So there will not be any LAP.

[sonofmidnight]

I am feeling a bit annoyed this morning.   A Derby fan who was interviewed by the journalists from Wycombe has said he would like to apologise to  Middlesborough and Wycombe  on behalf of the Derby fans. Well he doesn't speak for me. I hold the EFL responsible for the Wycombe mess.

[davenportram]

4 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's hard to see how taking it to a civil court is allowed under this provision (EFL rules): 

Sections 67 and 68 are basically dealing with issues about Jurisdiction of the tribunal and serious errors in how the tribunal was carried out.  So unless the LAP seriously screw something up, there's no chance of it going any further.

I think it’s the “so far as such waiver can be made” leaves scope for contention that such waiver goes against statute.

[JPRamFan]

Gibson has proof that Mystic Meg predicted that they'd win the playoffs ?

[davenportram]

7 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

It's hard to see how taking it to a civil court is allowed under this provision (EFL rules): 

Sections 67 and 68 are basically dealing with issues about Jurisdiction of the tribunal and serious errors in how the tribunal was carried out.  So unless the LAP seriously screw something up, there's no chance of it going any further.

Section 69 is not mentioned but challenge can be made on point of law or public interest

 

from section 69 - c part iii could apply with the MO involvement - the court can award leave to appeal and the EFL can’t deny a right under statute.

 

(3)Leave to appeal shall be given only if the court is satisfied—

(a)that the determination of the question will substantially affect the rights of one or more of the parties,

(b)that the question is one which the tribunal was asked to determine,

(c)that, on the basis of the findings of fact in the award—

(i)the decision of the tribunal on the question is obviously wrong, or

(ii)the question is one of general public importance and the decision of the tribunal is at least open to serious doubt, and

(d)that, despite the agreement of the parties to resolve the matter by arbitration, it is just and proper in all the circumstances for the court to determine the question.

[Van der MoodHoover]

43 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said:

Ok. But you don’t put your life on a 50/50 bet either!! So you’re saying they are a football creditor now are you?

No. 

I'm saying that it's ass about face and they have to be shown to be not a creditor at all first. 

[strawhillram]

2 minutes ago, davenportram said:

Section 69 is not mentioned but challenge can be made on point of law or public interest

 

from section 69 - c part iii could apply with the MO involvement - the court can award leave to appeal and the EFL can’t deny a right under statute.

 

(3)Leave to appeal shall be given only if the court is satisfied—

(a)that the determination of the question will substantially affect the rights of one or more of the parties,

(b)that the question is one which the tribunal was asked to determine,

(c)that, on the basis of the findings of fact in the award—

(i)the decision of the tribunal on the question is obviously wrong, or

(ii)the question is one of general public importance and the decision of the tribunal is at least open to serious doubt, and

(d)that, despite the agreement of the parties to resolve the matter by arbitration, it is just and proper in all the circumstances for the court to determine the question.

Very good, I hope Q and their legal team have read this

Edited January 29, 2022 by StrawHillRam

[Ram-Alf]

2 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Do you have an opinion on that possibility?

Yes, This is how I see it, A bit long winded so bare with.

MM takes on the EFL where TV revenue was agreed, MM with I think the support of Leeds and Villa critisize the EFL for selling all 72 clubs short, In other words a shambolic agreement with Sky, The EFL in their opinion got the best deal they could, Battle lines have been drawn, Parry takes the helm at the EFL and replaces Jevans, Ridsdale jumps aboard the good ship venus and conclude the Sky deal done and dusted.

Maguire has consistantly been rebuffed by the EFL concerning DCFCs accounts, Parry and co look into these and see something that looks a little iffy, They request past accounts and up to date accounts, Hhhmmm they say things don't look to rosey down at Pride Park you're given a transfer emargo, Investigation concludes we fail P&S and a 9 point deduction with 3 points suspended and found guilty of a minor infraction of amortisation ie not quite innocent of the explaining of the accounting method and fined £100,000, EFL appeal and told to do one, EFL say they are disappointed with the outcome but accept, MM puts DCFC into Administration with a further 12 points deduction totaling -21 points.

In the meantime Boro send a document to the EFL saying we will go after you(the EFL)but we will drop any action if you go after DCFC, They decide DCFC are on their knees relegation is a certainty league 1 is only a step away, Holy shyte DCFC are making a fist of it, Could they possibley gain on those above, A plan is needed to stop this, Parry reverts to the Boro document and assembles the Coven, DCFCs admin are close to annoncing a PB, How can the EFL blow that rescue pontoon that DCFC have built, Talks between the EFL and Boro are coming to fruition but need a fairy godmother to rubber stamp their plan, Come on down WW, They get involved as a makeweight so fingers are not just pointing at the EFL and Boro.

EFL and Admin meet to discuss and anounce the PB, EFL play their joker, Boro/WW are creditors, Holy duck say the Admin, Our PB will not accept that, We're unable to confirm what we have told our manager WR, Someone has not just moved the goalposts but dug them up and thrown them away, WR is spitting blood, Derby fans worldwide are very angry, The EFL/Boro and WW are like a Cheshire cat which got the cream, DCFC still can't sign anyone, Have to unload players who are only on 6 month contracts, Their cash is coming to an end, They will have to sell more or come up with £5m for DCFC to complete the season or COULD LOSE their membership of the EFL.

The shyte has hit the fan in a very big way, Boro and WW owners are going on the offensive, The EFL say we know nowt as we are not in talks with either of those 2 clubs, DCFC fans, MPs, Celebs, Councillors, Businesses and Uncle Tom Cobley and all get involved on saving DCFC, Meetings galore this last 2 weeks appear to be going in DCFCs way, The BBC have woken up, Gary Neville speaks out, The National press get involved, Martin Samual does a great report in the Mail.

The EFL appear to be shocked, Gibson releases a statement that is now in the hands of MI5 to decipher, Couhig goes on radio Derby and talks and talks, The interviewer mooches off for a coffee comes back to find Couhig still talking, Then Ed says thankyou for that and ends the interview.

Timelines may be a little ascue...but I hope you get the gist.

Non of the above could have happened without the 3 parties being intouch with eachother...hence the big "C"

 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Sinistra ram rousse said:

I am feeling a bit annoyed this morning.   A Derby fan who was interviewed by the journalists from Wycombe has said he would like to apologise to  Middlesborough and Wycombe  on behalf of the Derby fans. Well he doesn't speak for me. I hold the EFL responsible for the Wycombe mess.

I hold Wycombe responsible for their mess and now ours! That Derby fan, well there's always one and they were there for hours!

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

The EFL is not involved in the arbitration. It is independent. So there will not be any LAP.

LAP's are independent, that's the whole point of them.  I don't see how this can be anything other than a LAP through the official EFL arbitration process. It's the only tool they have for solving disputes, and all members are required to use it.

5 minutes ago, davenportram said:

I think it’s the “so far as such waiver can be made” leaves scope for contention that such waiver goes against statute.

That's the Section 67 bit (regarding jurisdiction) - we could argue e.g. that the arbitrators compelled us to break insolvency law, which they don't have jurisdiction over.  But I don't think there's any scope for 'Boro or Wycombe to take things further if they lose.

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, Sinistra ram rousse said:

I am feeling a bit annoyed this morning.   A Derby fan who was interviewed by the journalists from Wycombe has said he would like to apologise to  Middlesborough and Wycombe  on behalf of the Derby fans. Well he doesn't speak for me. I hold the EFL responsible for the Wycombe mess.

Since when did they appoint themselves sole spokesperson for the entire fanbase. Stooge.