The Administration Thread

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Well, we need to get a shifty on if talk of us running out of money is true….

But that also makes the risk from a preferred bidder pulling out that much higher too.  If we name a bidder, the other bidders start looking elsewhere, the PB spend say 6 weeks negotiating with HMRC and decide it’s unworkable and pull out, then where will we be?

[Jimbo Ram]

13 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

But that also makes the risk from a preferred bidder pulling out that much higher too.  If we name a bidder, the other bidders start looking elsewhere, the PB spend say 6 weeks negotiating with HMRC and decide it’s unworkable and pull out, then where will we be?

So how long do we leave it then?

[B4ev6is]

15 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

But that also makes the risk from a preferred bidder pulling out that much higher too.  If we name a bidder, the other bidders start looking elsewhere, the PB spend say 6 weeks negotiating with HMRC and decide it’s unworkable and pull out, then where will we be?

I think If mike ashley I think he will be everything in one go.

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

18 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

But that also makes the risk from a preferred bidder pulling out that much higher too.  If we name a bidder, the other bidders start looking elsewhere, the PB spend say 6 weeks negotiating with HMRC and decide it’s unworkable and pull out, then where will we be?

So…. Let’s leave it a bit longer then?

Weve done so many rounds of final bids that we must be done (positively or forked).

You can’t wIth a straight face keep giving deadlines to the “interested parties” and then…. “Ok this time I REALLY mean it, give me your best and final”…

 

[Topram]

2 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

Listening to Curtis on radio Derby post match , it seems like the players have just about had enough of the takeover fiasco. Incredible how they keep going . I think Rooney is about ready to spill the beans about it all on Monday night Sky.

Is Rooney on Monday night Football?

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, Topram said:

Is Rooney on Monday night Football?

See my thread, yes ?

[ilkleyram]

56 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Why can’t we name PB? Not sure I get it.

Even if none of the interested parties have offered as much as Q would like, why can’t the best of them be the PB?

Does this mean we have actually NO BIDS at all or if there are then they are with possibly unworkable strings attached which makes them in effect not a bid at all.

Probably - and I’m completely guessing - because what Q have actually received is two (let's accept that the statements made about a uk and US group are true) indicative offers for the club plus an ‘expression of interest' from Mike Ashley's team.  
An indicative offer says two things - 1) this is broadly what we will pay for X, over this timescale and 2) we are interested in buying the club.
‘An expession of interest' is just that - we are interested in buying the club. But it contains no firm financial offer.

From what we know of MA that’s how he works - he takes everything down to the wire to get the best possible deal. He also knows how to manipulate the media and the public/fan view to his best advantage. He knows he’s in a good position. He will be playing us and Q. 

The other two groups - presuming the UK one is not MA - are taking a similar line, I’m guessing. They have each made an indicative offer which will be subject to conditions which will not meet what Q would ideally like but which get them in the game. But because they are indicative offers they need a lot of discussion and negotiation about what they may mean in practice. Those discussions may, or may not, lead to a formal offer.

Nowhere in any of the statements have we heard of a formal offer for the club.  My bet is that we haven’t had one as such. Yet. Therefore it is impossible for Q to identify and announce a PB. The NDAs will absolutely prevent them from being any more open about who, why and what than they have been - and clearly they haven’t handled the PR well. They’ve raised expectations and then had hopes dashed; they’ve set timescales and procedures and the 'buyers' have done their own thing.

It will, probably, go down to the wire. The problem for we fans (and probably Q as well) is when is the wire? Is it when the money runs out? When’s that? Is it after the Cardiff match or the end of May when the season ends or the end of June when contracts finish? Perhaps it’s when the fixtures are due to be announced; maybe it’s when we actually know what division we will be in next year or when the EFL judge when we have or do not have enough money to fulfill next season’s fixtures. There will be a point when something has to give and that’s the moment it will get exciting. It could come before if one of the groups jumps the gun and makes an offer; it could be the moment of liquidation. Timing in acquisitions is all, and can be worth millions of pounds. 

If I were Q I would be getting irritated by the groups interested. I would be (belatedly) upping my PR game; I would be (very carefully) leaking stories to the press; I would be taking a risk and putting Wayne in front of them directly to emphasise the footballing issues; I would, now, define the end date, the point of liquidation and I would engage the EFL in that strategy. In short I would be increasing the pressure on them to make formal offers and move the process forward, quicker. 

[FlyBritishMidland]

17 hours ago, Bubbles said:

As well as this.. Radio Derby spoken to other Administrators of football clubs - They can’t believe the way this is being handled by Quantuma.

Serious action is needed, imo.

I didn’t hear much of Radio Derby yesterday but if the said other administrators had been critical of Quantuma they need to listen to their own interview with Gerald Krasner.  He had two criticisms'.  First, he’d have wanted the stadium company in admin too (this would need Mel to agree, which was unlikely, and for all we know they may have advised that) and managed the PR/fans better (which is fair).  He talked about everything that’s happened is normal and will continue with lots of last minute brinkmanship.  The interview was also interesting as you could almost tell Ed Dawes was disappointed there wasn’t more criticism.

I did hear Ed a little bit after the match and he said it shouldn’t have gone on so long.  As a journalist he should do his research as the average period for a  club to be in administration is about 9 months.  We might be around that by the time is complete, maybe a bit longer, but I think we’d all agree this is by no means an average case with many complicating factors!!

Edited April 3, 2022 by FlyBritishMidland

[PistoldPete]

9 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I didn’t hear much of Radio Derby yesterday but if the said other administrators had been critical of Quantuma they need to listen to their own interview with Gerald Krasner.  He had two criticisms'.  First, he’d have wanted the stadium company in admin too (this would need Mel to agree, which was unlikely, and for all we know they may have advised that) and managed the PR/fans better (which is fair).  He talked about everything that’s happened is normal and will continue with lots of last minute brinkmanship.  The interview was also interesting as you could almost tell Ed Dawes was disappointed there wasn’t more criticism.

I did hear Ed a little bit after the match and he said it shouldn’t have gone on so long.  As a journalist he should do his research as the average period for a  club to be in administration is about 9 months.  We might be around that by the time is complete, maybe a bit longer, but I think we’d all agree this is by no means an average case with many complicating factors!!

I don't see how the Gellaw company owning the stadium going into admin would help, even if it were possible. As you say it would need Mel to agree and on what grounds are there for him to say that Company has to go into admin? Someone (iram?) suggested MSD could force the stadium Company into admin receivership but only as a last resort. And I still don't see how that helps.Quanutuma has said many times that the stadium is not the issue. The issue as I see it is the MSD loan secured against it. Mel needs to pay that off.     

[RipleyRich]

Apologies in advance to all if you have seen this before as it`s an old article. And apologies to those of you that are pi$$ed off with me going on about HMRC.

I keep on digging around for information as I don`t believe that Quantuma are being open with information,partly due to the panic that would set in if we knew the truth (sorry for being so negative but the saga almost speaks for itself)

Just thought there were a few things in here that help to explain the complicated nature of the situation.

https://m.allfootballapp.com/news/EPL/Derby-County-Taxpayers-will-have-to-bail-out-club-say-analysts-with-future-unclear/2695123

 

[Ram-Alf]

23 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

But some of us are willing to take that risk. DCFC is worth far more to me than £400. Way, way more. 

I worked at a cheese factory, My mates wages were whey whey more than mine

[ilkleyram]

37 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I didn’t hear much of Radio Derby yesterday but if the said other administrators had been critical of Quantuma they need to listen to their own interview with Gerald Krasner.  He had two criticisms'.  First, he’d have wanted the stadium company in admin too (this would need Mel to agree, which was unlikely, and for all we know they may have advised that) and managed the PR/fans better (which is fair).  He talked about everything that’s happened is normal and will continue with lots of last minute brinkmanship.  The interview was also interesting as you could almost tell Ed Dawes was disappointed there wasn’t more criticism.

I did hear Ed a little bit after the match and he said it shouldn’t have gone on so long.  As a journalist he should do his research as the average period for a  club to be in administration is about 9 months.  We might be around that by the time is complete, maybe a bit longer, but I think we’d all agree this is by no means an average case with many complicating factors!!

One other small but important piece of news on Radio Derby yesterday was that they had heard that an order had been placed for next seasons kit. 

You can read a lot of positive things into that. If it’s true. 

How has it been paid for? Who has funded it? Does that mean the process is further along than we have been told? Do we have funding to last beyond this season? Who is the sponsor? 

it may also mean nothing - that the kit was already paid for and it was just a contractual requirement. But......

[PistoldPete]

10 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

One other small but important piece of news on Radio Derby yesterday was that they had heard that an order had been placed for next seasons kit. 

You can read a lot of positive things into that. If it’s true. 

How has it been paid for? Who has funded it? Does that mean the process is further along than we have been told? Do we have funding to last beyond this season? Who is the sponsor? 

it may also mean nothing - that the kit was already paid for and it was just a contractual requirement. But......

Sports Direct. 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

11 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

One other small but important piece of news on Radio Derby yesterday was that they had heard that an order had been placed for next seasons kit. 

You can read a lot of positive things into that. If it’s true. 

How has it been paid for? Who has funded it? Does that mean the process is further along than we have been told? Do we have funding to last beyond this season? Who is the sponsor? 

it may also mean nothing - that the kit was already paid for and it was just a contractual requirement. But......

From Decathlon most likely..

[RipleyRich]

11 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

One other small but important piece of news on Radio Derby yesterday was that they had heard that an order had been placed for next seasons kit. 

You can read a lot of positive things into that. If it’s true. 

How has it been paid for? Who has funded it? Does that mean the process is further along than we have been told? Do we have funding to last beyond this season? Who is the sponsor? 

it may also mean nothing - that the kit was already paid for and it was just a contractual requirement. But......

Rooney said on Friday he has no idea who the sponsor might be and that they may have to play pre-season matches in training kit as the new kit wont be available.

[RipleyRich]

9 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

Probably - and I’m completely guessing - because what Q have actually received is two (let's accept that the statements made about a uk and US group are true) indicative offers for the club plus an ‘expression of interest' from Mike Ashley's team.  
An indicative offer says two things - 1) this is broadly what we will pay for X, over this timescale and 2) we are interested in buying the club.
‘An expession of interest' is just that - we are interested in buying the club. But it contains no firm financial offer.

From what we know of MA that’s how he works - he takes everything down to the wire to get the best possible deal. He also knows how to manipulate the media and the public/fan view to his best advantage. He knows he’s in a good position. He will be playing us and Q. 

The other two groups - presuming the UK one is not MA - are taking a similar line, I’m guessing. They have each made an indicative offer which will be subject to conditions which will not meet what Q would ideally like but which get them in the game. But because they are indicative offers they need a lot of discussion and negotiation about what they may mean in practice. Those discussions may, or may not, lead to a formal offer.

Nowhere in any of the statements have we heard of a formal offer for the club.  My bet is that we haven’t had one as such. Yet. Therefore it is impossible for Q to identify and announce a PB. The NDAs will absolutely prevent them from being any more open about who, why and what than they have been - and clearly they haven’t handled the PR well. They’ve raised expectations and then had hopes dashed; they’ve set timescales and procedures and the 'buyers' have done their own thing.

It will, probably, go down to the wire. The problem for we fans (and probably Q as well) is when is the wire? Is it when the money runs out? When’s that? Is it after the Cardiff match or the end of May when the season ends or the end of June when contracts finish? Perhaps it’s when the fixtures are due to be announced; maybe it’s when we actually know what division we will be in next year or when the EFL judge when we have or do not have enough money to fulfill next season’s fixtures. There will be a point when something has to give and that’s the moment it will get exciting. It could come before if one of the groups jumps the gun and makes an offer; it could be the moment of liquidation. Timing in acquisitions is all, and can be worth millions of pounds. 

If I were Q I would be getting irritated by the groups interested. I would be (belatedly) upping my PR game; I would be (very carefully) leaking stories to the press; I would be taking a risk and putting Wayne in front of them directly to emphasise the footballing issues; I would, now, define the end date, the point of liquidation and I would engage the EFL in that strategy. In short I would be increasing the pressure on them to make formal offers and move the process forward, quicker. 

Quantuma do not have the influence over bidders to that degree.

The reality is that the prospective buyers have the upper hand. No one can force them to pay more than they consider the club is worth to THEM.

HMRC could still have a massive hand in this. They don`t have to accept less than 100% and could be demanding anything from 25% to 100% at this point in time.

MSD / MM also have a huge hand. Any sale of the Club has to provide proof to the EFL of ownership, or an agreement to lease, a suitable Stadium for 10 years.

That`s just the tip of the iceberg when complications come into play.

Quantuma`s prime responsibility is to getting the best possible deal for the Creditors. Once that deal is presented it`s down to the Creditors to vote on it, and if it`s rejected........back to the drawing board. That process could literally go on until the money runs out.

They cannot name a PB until a deal is on the table that in principle is agreeable to the Creditors.

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, RipleyRich said:

Quantuma do not have the influence over bidders to that degree.

The reality is that the prospective buyers have the upper hand. No one can force them to pay more than they consider the club is worth to THEM.

HMRC could still have a massive hand in this. They don`t have to accept less than 100% and could be demanding anything from 25% to 100% at this point in time.

MSD / MM also have a huge hand. Any sale of the Club has to provide proof to the EFL of ownership, or an agreement to lease, a suitable Stadium for 10 years.

That`s just the tip of the iceberg when complications come into play.

Quantuma`s prime responsibility is to getting the best possible deal for the Creditors. Once that deal is presented it`s down to the Creditors to vote on it, and if it`s rejected........back to the drawing board. That process could literally go on until the money runs out.

They cannot name a PB until a deal is on the table that in principle is agreeable to the Creditors.

One slight detail on that - if the vote rejects it we’re done 

[RipleyRich]

10 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

One slight detail on that - if the vote rejects it we’re done 

I`m sure they would get more than one chance. eg

Quantuma to HMRC - Bidder A is offering you 40%

HMRC to Quantuma - No deal. Tell them we want 60%

2 weeks later

Quantuma to HMRC - Bidder A has said he can go to 50% max.

HMRC to Quantuma - Tell Bidder A we have a deal in principle.

 

Or am I being a fantasist?

[Tyler Durden]

43 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

One other small but important piece of news on Radio Derby yesterday was that they had heard that an order had been placed for next seasons kit. 

You can read a lot of positive things into that. If it’s true. 

How has it been paid for? Who has funded it? Does that mean the process is further along than we have been told? Do we have funding to last beyond this season? Who is the sponsor? 

it may also mean nothing - that the kit was already paid for and it was just a contractual requirement. But......

It's actually Notts County's third away kit. We won it in a raffle. 

[Ramos]

34 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

Rooney said on Friday he has no idea who the sponsor might be and that they may have to play pre-season matches in training kit as the new kit wont be available.

I think the kit is the least of our worries. Need enough players to wear 11 kits to start with!