The Administration Thread

[TomG]

56 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

You need to send that to people in a Circular

It may well be outside the sphere of some peoples understanding!

[i-Ram]

11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

What none of us can possibly know is what impact the uncertainty the actions taken by Boro commencing in May 2019 and then by the Efl commencing in January 2020 has had on the club.

No investors like uncertainty which is why even now no bidder has gone unconditional. uncertainty caused by legal and regulatory issues which have dragged on and still ongoing is a major factor in why the club has not been sold.

the daily telegraph business section did a piece on this a few weeks ago.

Really not sure what that has got to do with any of the points I was making.

[Kathcairns]

8 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

I don't know if it's just that I'm getting older or if football has changed so much over the past few years, but there's such a huge gap between where we are and the top of the PL that I'm really not that fussed about getting promoted to the so called 'promised land'. As long as I can support my local team, see plenty of effort, a bit of skill and a few goals (preferably winning more games than we lose) then that will do for me - I'm not sure I even actually care that much about which league we're in....

? This season has been the most enjoyable to watch even with all the problems going on. Credit to Rooney, coaching staff, players and fans. If we could have every season like this i would be happy.

[r_wilcockson]

13 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

I don't know if it's just that I'm getting older or if football has changed so much over the past few years, but there's such a huge gap between where we are and the top of the PL that I'm really not that fussed about getting promoted to the so called 'promised land'. As long as I can support my local team, see plenty of effort, a bit of skill and a few goals (preferably winning more games than we lose) then that will do for me - I'm not sure I even actually care that much about which league we're in....

This is how I felt watching Kidderminster Harriers (a National League North team) yesterday. Really enjoyed it and it looked like a ground I'd enjoy going to. 

[Ram-Alf]

18 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

 He was actually dealing with a chancer called Samuelson to see if he could find a mug, any mug, who might have any reason to want to part with a lot of money for a debt ridden football club.

Samuelson saw MM coming over the horizon and his white charger ?

[AndyB]

14 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

You can’t put a handbrake on spending just like that Andy. Footballers contracts just cannot be terminated. Morris was still going mad in 2019 paying stupid fees and wages for the likes of Waghorn, Josefzoon and the left fullback who was so memorable I temporarily forget his name. He then commits us to £10m on Bielik. You are living in a different universe to me if you think Morris was reigning in expenditure when it was all too clear getting a bit sticky. He was actually dealing with a chancer called Samuelson to see if he could find a mug, any mug, who might have any reason to want to part with a lot of money for a debt ridden football club.

I don’t mind the debate and who’s to say who’s right or wrong as neither of us is actually Mel Morris!

Yes there was spending initially and I think then there was spending only along side sales of similar values. I think the recent cases you site came when various of our players, and a couple of managers, were sold to premier league or parachute payment clubs.

I know you can’t put the brakes on that spending once you’ve signed someone but you can put the brakes on by not signing someone or by selling someone.

[Ghost of Clough]

24 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

With respect Andy I don’t think many of our fans truly get it. Our current predicament, indeed our point deductions, are nothing to do with stadium revaluations or amortisation policies. Yes they have been bumps in the road, that the EFL (and Boro) have tried to make a lot higher than was needed. But neither have had any great affect on where we now find ourselves. Whichever amortisation policy we had used we would still have probably been overspending against P&S rules in 3 of the last 4 seasons. We would have still lost the same significant amount of cash over the same period of Morris’s tenure, despite him realising £40m of profit from a stadium revaluation. We would still be owing £60m plus to Creditors. We lost 9 points for excessive overspending, and another 12 points when our owner decided enough was enough. 

Note: This is not to say I support the EFL/Boro, especially so in respect of the vindictive way these spurious football claims have been handled in in the last few months. But imo we cannot argue too loudly that our -21 point deductions is unfair. We should rightly however be arguing that points deduction should be the end of the matter, and the EFL should be doing everything it can to ensure that an historic member club is allowed to rehabilitate and flourish, on a sentence served basis. The fact they haven’t will see the end of them hopefully.

 

That's not quite right.

Under straight-line, we failed 2014-2017, 2016-2019, and 2017-2021. We would have also failed 2017-2020 if it wasn't excluded as a result of Covid.

With the 'Derby method', we know we were within the limits up to and inckuding the period ending in 2019 (as per DC doc). The 2017-2020 period being excluded too.

We still would have failed the 2017-2021 period by about £20.5m. This would have reset the 18/19, 19/20 and 20/21 losses to £13m. The result being, we wouldn't have failed any future periods.

[GB SPORTS]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

? My point about Longson was to try and point out that this idea there was a time when football was pure and unsullied by money and power isn't so.

True, plenty of people about saying money had ruined football in 1973.?

[1967RAMS]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Rush was appointed as the president and chief executive of Derby County in September 2012. In November 2014 he was named FC Business Championship chief executive of the year. All going pretty well during his time at the club under the ownership of GSE. In October 2015, Rush signed a new five-year contract at Derby with Morris stating: “Rush is a big reason for the turnaround in the football club and a main for reason for me having joined the club”. A couple of years later Rush is accused by Morris of <cough> “gross misconduct and breach of fiduciary duty"<cough> although the matter never made Court, despite Morris “relishing the opportunity”.

Im not blaming Rush for our plight  and his tenure prior to MM arriving was impressive. However we cannot ignore the fact he was in charge 2015-2017 when the foundations for our current plight were being laid. He was at best unable/unwilling to reign in the over spending on mediocrity by MM or at worst fully complicit in it. Either way I wouldn’t be welcoming him back with open arms

[Mucker1884]

2 hours ago, Maharan said:

But if Mel is so willing to blur the lines around the whole situation, then HMRC could reasonably ask why he’s not willing to wade in and pay the outstanding tax debt. 
honestly, I think it’s all hot air from Morris. Surely you can’t pick and choose which of your outstanding liabilities you want to satisfy when you’ve put the club into administration? 

MFC & WWFC aren't outstanding liabilities, and nor were they when he put the club into administration.

[Elwood P Dowd]

17 minutes ago, I DONT MIND said:

True, plenty of people about saying money had ruined football in 1973.?

Money began to ruin Football when Alf  Common was sold for £1,000 in 1905 he went from Sunderland to Boro, so it’s Boro’s fault?

Edited February 6, 2022 by Elwood P Dowd
Spelling

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Raminphilippines said:

When people ask me if I am a Football supporter? I always have replied "No, I am a Derby supporter, I follow Derby and have no interest in watching any other team." 

I just say "No" nowadays!

#life'stooshort!   ?

[RadioactiveWaste]

My response is usually "I don't like football, I'm a Derby fan"

[PistoldPete]

33 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Really not sure what that has got to do with any of the points I was making.

You have said why (in your opinion) we are in the current mess. Which we wouldn’t be in if the club had been sold. Even now , if Efl or Boro /Wycombe acted properly we would by now be out of admin and under new ownership. Damaged yes but not staring into the abyss.

[i-Ram]

22 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

That's not quite right.

Under straight-line, we failed 2014-2017, 2016-2019, and 2017-2021. We would have also failed 2017-2020 if it wasn't excluded as a result of Covid.

With the 'Derby method', we know we were within the limits up to and inckuding the period ending in 2019 (as per DC doc). The 2017-2020 period being excluded too.

We still would have failed the 2017-2021 period by about £20.5m. This would have reset the 18/19, 19/20 and 20/21 losses to £13m. The result being, we wouldn't have failed any future periods.

Noted, and thanks GOC. I knew I was probably winging it a bit on it being 3 years, and I am lazy when it comes to number crunching. How many points might we have expected to be deducted for a 20.5m loss. Would it be any more than the 9 we got?

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

You have said why (in your opinion) we are in the current mess. Which we wouldn’t be in if the club had been sold. Even now , if Efl or Boro /Wycombe acted properly we would by now be out of admin and under new ownership. Damaged yes but not staring into the abyss.

Am sure the club wasnt sold as MM was asking for too much money. But that's just me. 

[PistoldPete]

25 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

That's not quite right.

Under straight-line, we failed 2014-2017, 2016-2019, and 2017-2021. We would have also failed 2017-2020 if it wasn't excluded as a result of Covid.

With the 'Derby method', we know we were within the limits up to and inckuding the period ending in 2019 (as per DC doc). The 2017-2020 period being excluded too.

We still would have failed the 2017-2021 period by about £20.5m. This would have reset the 18/19, 19/20 and 20/21 losses to £13m. The result being, we wouldn't have failed any future periods.

And if we had been sold in 2019/20 we wouldn’t have failed ffp at all. Or gone into admin. So Boro slapping a writ on us on May 2019 and Efl charging us over the stadium sale in January 2010 both wrongly could well have damaged our prospects of avoiding either. 

[i-Ram]

24 minutes ago, 1967RAMS said:

Im not blaming Rush for our plight  and his tenure prior to MM arriving was impressive. However we cannot ignore the fact he was in charge 2015-2017 when the foundations for our current plight were being laid. He was at best unable/unwilling to reign in the over spending on mediocrity by MM or at worst fully complicit in it. Either way I wouldn’t be welcoming him back with open arms

I am not defending Rush either. There was always something a little ‘shifty looking about him ? and I think his treatment of Clough at the end was despicable. I do wonder though if Rush and Pearce for that matter were simply pawns (and ultimately fall guys), and the Candy King was the one making most, if not all, of the important decisions. 

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

You can’t put a handbrake on spending just like that Andy. Footballers contracts just cannot be terminated. Morris was still going mad in 2019 paying stupid fees and wages for the likes of Waghorn, Josefzoon and the left fullback who was so memorable I temporarily forget his name. He then commits us to £10m on Bielik. You are living in a different universe to me if you think Morris was reigning in expenditure when it was all too clear getting a bit sticky. He was actually dealing with a chancer called Samuelson to see if he could find a mug, any mug, who might have any reason to want to part with a lot of money for a debt ridden football club.

Malone

[Kathcairns]

32 minutes ago, I DONT MIND said:

True, plenty of people about saying money had ruined football in 1973.?

Did'nt cloughie sign the first million pound player, Trevor Francis i think, i could be wrong though.