The Administration Thread

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Reading all this, my head is a total washing machine. 

[i-Ram]

26 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I-Ram I agree with you. Almost a first.   

Well it’s nice for you to be right sometimes.

[CornwallRam]

1 minute ago, Sparkle said:

We really need to know 

We can legally exit administration without settling the cases, but we can't exit administration without the EFL's approval and remain in the EFL. And a football club without it's golden share is worth about 20p, so  no one is going to take it over.

[falconram]

I wonder now if Quantum realize what kind of toxic organiation the EFL is and should have contined with the Force Majore which they dropped to make transition out of administation easier, we are over a barrel in every way, sad times.

[Sparkle]

8 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

We can legally exit administration without settling the cases, but we can't exit administration without the EFL's approval and remain in the EFL. And a football club without it's golden share is worth about 20p, so  no one is going to take it over.

Blackmail then - no wonder football is broken 

[Rams forever]

13 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Unless the  EFL or Middlesbrough have a sudden change of heart, I think this is the end for this iteration of Derby County

Logically, I don't think the administrators can now trade to  a better position for the creditors than liquidation offers.

They could try to sell a couple of players to keep us going, but that's depleting the assets, with no exit route in sight. It's not going to be in the interests of the creditors to do that whilst the spurious claims prevent a takeover, and the administrators can't fight the case themselves  - they could not assume the potential liability.

Mike Ashley is the only hope, but I think he has a better option, To get out of this we need enough cash to keep playing whilst fighting the case at the arbitration panel. That's likely to take a year. So we'll need about £10m and someone to underwrite the potential award, should we fall foul of the EFL constituted panel.

So Ashley could give us £10m to keep us afloat, but then, even if we win the case, have to find £60m to get us out of admin. Of course we should win the case and almost certainly would in a fair hearing, but this is the EFL, so even that would be a risk. Of course, we'll have been in embargo for that year, so we're likely to be deep in relegation trouble in League 1. Ashley is not going to pay £70m for a club heading downwards towards League 2 with a week squad.

What he could do is to buy the name for a few million and restart the club. It would take all his negotiating skills, but he may well be able to secure a place in the Conference North. Throw a few million at it and a couple of years later he's got a League 2 club for less than £10m. Then he buys the white elephant that is Pride Park for a few of million and he's got a bargain deal.

IMO it looks quite possible that tomorrow could be the last game of the season and the last for The Derby County Football  Club Ltd. Derby County will live on, but it won't technically be the same club.

 

This makes me so sad and so angry and really disappointed ??

[Rab a dab doo]

What ever happened to the beautiful game ?

[Curtains]

29 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Unless the  EFL or Middlesbrough have a sudden change of heart, I think this is the end for this iteration of Derby County

Logically, I don't think the administrators can now trade to  a better position for the creditors than liquidation offers.

They could try to sell a couple of players to keep us going, but that's depleting the assets, with no exit route in sight. It's not going to be in the interests of the creditors to do that whilst the spurious claims prevent a takeover, and the administrators can't fight the case themselves  - they could not assume the potential liability.

Mike Ashley is the only hope, but I think he has a better option, To get out of this we need enough cash to keep playing whilst fighting the case at the arbitration panel. That's likely to take a year. So we'll need about £10m and someone to underwrite the potential award, should we fall foul of the EFL constituted panel.

So Ashley could give us £10m to keep us afloat, but then, even if we win the case, have to find £60m to get us out of admin. Of course we should win the case and almost certainly would in a fair hearing, but this is the EFL, so even that would be a risk. Of course, we'll have been in embargo for that year, so we're likely to be deep in relegation trouble in League 1. Ashley is not going to pay £70m for a club heading downwards towards League 2 with a week squad.

What he could do is to buy the name for a few million and restart the club. It would take all his negotiating skills, but he may well be able to secure a place in the Conference North. Throw a few million at it and a couple of years later he's got a League 2 club for less than £10m. Then he buys the white elephant that is Pride Park for a few of million and he's got a bargain deal.

IMO it looks quite possible that tomorrow could be the last game of the season and the last for The Derby County Football  Club Ltd. Derby County will live on, but it won't technically be the same club.

 

Surely that’s the worst possible case scenario isn’t it!

I sincerely hope you are wrong .

We are not at that stage yet IMO it would take a few months for that process if at all .

While there is hope there is still a way 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Curtains
Added

[LeedsCityRam]

A day that started with hope that we were about to confirm PB status ends with more misery & one of our best players leaving. Only at this club.

The EFL can openly lie in their statements they are not getting involved but by insisting the matters with Parmo parasite & Waitrose parasite are concluded before we can move to PB status, they are guaranteeing both clubs a settlement without DCFC having the opportunity to fight them. Its an abuse of their power & furthermore the inevitable stalemate is in contravention of insolvency law in not allowing recompense of creditors because of speculative claims with no legal or contractual weight. @i-Ram is completely correct that this needs injunctive relief to force the EFL to back down. Given the additional aggravating factors of conflict of interest within the EFL & their constant shifting of the goalposts throughout the process, Im confident this would be a quick decision in our favour.

We talk about what can be done as fans, crowdfunding legal representation may be a good start. I would say that Mr Morris should be at the head of that queue given his role in this bloody mess.

[Ramtastic ones]

27 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Middlesborough were prevented from joining in on the Stadium sale / amortisation process because the EFL correctly applied the rules that there was an established process for the EFL to take action against Derby. A decision was made ultimately by the LAP, wrongly in my view but Derby shot themselves in the foot too, but nonetheless that is where it should have stopped. Decision made, punishment applied, everyone moves on.

Gibson though clearly was was wound up by Morris, and is now taking vexatious action to say that the punishment meted out to Derby was insufficient given the loss of income his club potentially suffered. Under EFL rules that claim needs to be separately arbitrated. That arbitration process will take ages to organise, and the Club will want to resist it as I understand (only from reading on here) that any decision of the LAP is final, and there is no appeal.

There is no official action or claim from Boro as they are prevented from taking action against a member club through the Courts under EFL rules. They can only pursue action as detailed above.

In my view, caveated by I am no lawyer, there is a strong case for Quantuma to take on the EFL via court injunction to stop them interfering with their statutory duties to creditors under the IA86. Hopefully that is true, and money will be found to stop the arbitration affecting the sale of the club. Hopefully the ruling will also determine that if Boro want to action a claim it has to be via a court action not a LAP kangaroo hearing.

I have not mentioned Wycombe in this as they just being a complete nuisance, with no reasonable claim whatsover.

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ramtastic ones

[Ramtastic ones]

13 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Surely that’s the worst possible case scenario isn’t it!

I sincerely hope you are wrong .

We are not at that stage yet IMO

Nah. At least one more game. A 5-0 victory over the red dogs.

[chipperram]

17 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

We can legally exit administration without settling the cases, but we can't exit administration without the EFL's approval and remain in the EFL. And a football club without it's golden share is worth about 20p, so  no one is going to take it over.

The thing is there are no cases to settle, just threats to sue us, that is why arbitration is being suggested. Only after arbitration would it go to court. We should just crack on with the take over, Steve Gibson will drop the threat once we have clear owners, he is pushing the administrators, with EFL deference, hoping they will cave in and give him some money or as is more likely string it out until we are no longer competitive in terms of suitable team players. Thus seeing us relegated, his real main aim. Slimy and  manipulative comes to mind.

[Ram-Alf]

33 minutes ago, Philmycock said:

Does the FA have any jurisdiction over the EFL?

No 2 different entities

[Philmycock]

Mel Morris is an absolute Bamford

[Ram-Alf]

19 minutes ago, Rab a dab doo said:

What ever happened to the beautiful game ?

It died decades ago when Sky flooded football with money

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

A day that started with hope that we were about to confirm PB status ends with more misery & one of our best players leaving. Only at this club.

The EFL can openly lie in their statements they are not getting involved but by insisting the matters with Parmo parasite & Waitrose parasite are concluded before we can move to PB status, they are guaranteeing both clubs a settlement without DCFC having the opportunity to fight them. Its an abuse of their power & furthermore the inevitable stalemate is in contravention of insolvency law in not allowing recompense of creditors because of speculative claims with no legal or contractual weight. @i-Ram is completely correct that this needs injunctive relief to force the EFL to back down. Given the additional aggravating factors of conflict of interest within the EFL & their constant shifting of the goalposts throughout the process, I'm confident this would be a quick decision in our favour.

We talk about what can be done as fans, crowdfunding legal representation may be a good start. I would say that Mr Morris should be at the head of that queue given his role in this bloody mess.

I can't verbalise just how much this what I also think about is happening to the Club, and what is right and proper. Where is that 'legend' Mel Morris with an anonymous donation?!

[CornwallRam]

11 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Surely that’s the worst possible case scenario isn’t it!

I sincerely hope you are wrong .

We are not at that stage yet IMO it would take a few months for that process if at all .

Unfortunately, I don't think I'm wrong about the current situation - and we certainly don't have months. The administrators have to do the best they can for the creditors and running at a loss with no one to underwrite it certainly isn't in the creditors' interest. If liquidation is the best option, it's better to liquidate with the maximum of assets left. 

The chink of light that I can see is that either Gibson or the EFL think this through and change their positions. If they really go through with this is could destroy the whole structure of football and effectively end the EFL, such would be the precedent set by empowering malicious financial claims between clubs.

I think, on reflection, things are 50-50 at present. There's a good chance the EFL will back down - if they don't, I can't see how we survive in this form.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, chipperram said:

The thing is there are no cases to settle, just threats to sue us, that is why arbitration is being suggested. Only after arbitration would it go to court. We should just crack on with the take over, Steve Gibson will drop the threat once we have clear owners, he is pushing the administrators, with EFL deference, hoping they will cave in and give him some money or as is more likely string it out until we are no longer competitive in terms of suitable team players. Thus seeing us relegated, his real main aim. Slimy and  manipulative comes to mind.

But prospective owners  are unlikely  proceed with the threat hanging over them .

Only Ashley has the clout to save us on the brink of liquidation.

Get to the end of the season by selling a few players in the window and try and sort mess out then 

[chipperram]

1 minute ago, Unlucky Alf said:

No 2 different entities

Where do UEFA or FIFA sit in the football governance/authority scale. Surely the EFL has somebody they are accountable to. If not they are a huge self licking lollipop.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, CornwallRam said:

Unfortunately, I don't think I'm wrong about the current situation - and we certainly don't have months.

Why not? The Admin have said they are confident they can get proof of funding for us to show we can fulfil our games.

Edited January 14, 2022 by RoyMac5