DCFC Fans Forum on the creditors list

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

About £120 million owed to Mel.. but don't worry we are not paying that one. About £65 million owed to other creditors. I think most of that will be paid by the new owners.

Phew I couldn't sleep last night fretting about that one.

[Charlie George]

13 hours ago, David said:

Well today we have received £270 worth of donations before PayPal fees which is incredible, I honestly can't thank members enough.

I have just filed the 20/21 tax year accounts last week for the forum, can send you a copy if you like?

Yes please.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

About £120 million owed to Mel.. but don't worry we are not paying that one. About £65 million owed to other creditors. I think most of that will be paid by the new owners.

We owe nothing to MM.

He put £120m into his company which was then used to buy share capital in The Derby County Football Club Limited. 

He may be owed money from his company but is owed nothing, personally, from the football club.

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

We owe nothing to MM.

He put £120m into his company which was then used to buy share capital in The Derby County Football Club Limited. 

He may be owed money from his company but is owed nothing, personally, from the football club.

Thanks, i did not mean Mel's personnaly but the myriad of companies he seems to own or be a director

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Thanks, i did not mean Mel's personnaly but the myriad of companies he seems to own or be a director

And the point still stands.

We owe group companies £12m from memory, not £120m.

[Carnero]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

We owe nothing to MM.

He put £120m into his company which was then used to buy share capital in The Derby County Football Club Limited. 

He may be owed money from his company but is owed nothing, personally, from the football club.

Well said, it's annoying the amount of people who don't understand what the share premium account is yet speak as if they do. Alan Nixon included.

[G STAR RAM]

41 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Well said, it's annoying the amount of people who don't understand what the share premium account is yet speak as if they do. Alan Nixon included.

Black and White Together reporting that Morris is owed £123m as a directors loan and £81m for the ground. 

I think these supporter groups really should get the figures analysed properly before reporting to everyone.

[Dcfc_Sterling]

16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Black and White Together reporting that Morris is owed £123m as a directors loan and £81m for the ground. 

I think these supporter groups really should get the figures analysed properly before reporting to everyone.

"Mel Morris - Director’s Loan Account shown as £123m. He is unlikely to see a penny on this. In addition, of course, he is owed £81m by Gellaw Newco 202/204 (not in Administration) regarding the purchase of Pride Park from the football club in 2018."

 

Reading not one of your specialities?

[sage]

8 minutes ago, Dcfc_Sterling said:

"Mel Morris - Director’s Loan Account shown as £123m. He is unlikely to see a penny on this. In addition, of course, he is owed £81m by Gellaw Newco 202/204 (not in Administration) regarding the purchase of Pride Park from the football club in 2018."

 

Reading not one of your specialities?

They've been deducted 6 points if that helps. 

[Dcfc_Sterling]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Black and White Together reporting that Morris is owed £123m as a directors loan and £81m for the ground. 

I think these supporter groups really should get the figures analysed properly before reporting to everyone.

 

54 minutes ago, sage said:

They've been deducted 6 points if that helps. 

Just to be clear,

Directors loan £123m is on Gellaw Newco 203 (Topco) Statement of Affairs, so that's a real liability now. As is the separate loan RE PPS. 

Share premium account is split between DCFC Ltd & Sevco 5112. It was created historically; when MM first bought shares in DCFC from GSE, added to when he bought GSE out completely & then topped up again when Sevco 5112 was created to own DCFC; contra entry being good will. It represents difference between value placed on shares at the time of those historical valuations & par value of the shares. 

as the company is now in administration, with liabilities far greater than assets, as with share capital itself, the share premium account is no absolutely worthless.

G STAR RAM - id recommend re-reading this https://www.dcfcbawt.org/post/statement-of-affairs-or-statement-of-financial-mismanagement

[Carnero]

22 minutes ago, Dcfc_Sterling said:

 

Just to be clear,

Directors loan £123m is on Gellaw Newco 203 (Topco) Statement of Affairs, so that's a real liability now. As is the separate loan RE PPS. 

Share premium account is split between DCFC Ltd & Sevco 5112. It was created historically; when MM first bought shares in DCFC from GSE, added to when he bought GSE out completely & then topped up again when Sevco 5112 was created to own DCFC; contra entry being good will. It represents difference between value placed on shares at the time of those historical valuations & par value of the shares. 

as the company is now in administration, with liabilities far greater than assets, as with share capital itself, the share premium account is no absolutely worthless.

G STAR RAM - id recommend re-reading this https://www.dcfcbawt.org/post/statement-of-affairs-or-statement-of-financial-mismanagement

The Derby County Football Club Ltd owns the golden share, so this is the only company that needs rescuing.

The B&WT write up also states that players are valued at £30m odd when the estimated realisable value stated in the statement of affairs is actually £18.5m (presumably limited to those under contact beyond the summer, plus an amount for Lawrence & Buchanan).

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Dcfc_Sterling said:

"Mel Morris - Director’s Loan Account shown as £123m. He is unlikely to see a penny on this. In addition, of course, he is owed £81m by Gellaw Newco 202/204 (not in Administration) regarding the purchase of Pride Park from the football club in 2018."

Reading not one of your specialities?

Wouldn't say its a speciality but it's something I'm capable of.

29 minutes ago, Dcfc_Sterling said:

Just to be clear,

Directors loan £123m is on Gellaw Newco 203 (Topco) Statement of Affairs, so that's a real liability now. As is the separate loan RE PPS. 

Share premium account is split between DCFC Ltd & Sevco 5112. It was created historically; when MM first bought shares in DCFC from GSE, added to when he bought GSE out completely & then topped up again when Sevco 5112 was created to own DCFC; contra entry being good will. It represents difference between value placed on shares at the time of those historical valuations & par value of the shares. 

as the company is now in administration, with liabilities far greater than assets, as with share capital itself, the share premium account is no absolutely worthless.

G STAR RAM - id recommend re-reading this https://www.dcfcbawt.org/post/statement-of-affairs-or-statement-of-financial-mismanagement

Just to be clear, the liabilities of the parent co are not our concern. 

I'd recommend familiarising yourself with what you are commenting on.

[Dcfc_Sterling]

19 minutes ago, Carnero said:

The Derby County Football Club Ltd owns the golden share, so this is the only company that needs rescuing.

The B&WT write up also states that players are valued at £30m odd when the estimated realisable value stated in the statement of affairs is actually £18.5m (presumably limited to those under contact beyond the summer, plus an amount for Lawrence & Buchanan).

The statement of affairs (dated 22.9.21) includes players at 33m (note 5), which we believe was the book value being carried at that date. the 18.5m (note 1) appears to be later reevaluation (dated October) using a software programme provided by twenty first group. However, the statement of affairs has NOT been amended to show 18.5m. its just left as a note. 

saving the TDCFC ltd is stating the obvious. it doesnt change the fact that MM has an outstanding directors loan of £123m to the group, which is what is stated in the blog and above and MM wont see a penny for it. 

[G STAR RAM]

27 minutes ago, Dcfc_Sterling said:

The statement of affairs (dated 22.9.21) includes players at 33m (note 5), which we believe was the book value being carried at that date. the 18.5m (note 1) appears to be later reevaluation (dated October) using a software programme provided by twenty first group. However, the statement of affairs has NOT been amended to show 18.5m. its just left as a note. 

saving the TDCFC ltd is stating the obvious. it doesnt change the fact that MM has an outstanding directors loan of £123m to the group, which is what is stated in the blog and above and MM wont see a penny for it. 

If I set up a Limited Co and use it to buy shares in Rolls Royce, does Rolls Royce owe me money then?

Edited November 21, 2021 by G STAR RAM

[Dcfc_Sterling]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Can you not answer the question?

If you set up a company to buy shares in Rolls Royce you'd only own fraction of shares in RR - unless you're a billionaire.

Gellaw Newco 203 wholly owns DCFC Ltd and is part of an arrangement (Debentures) that secures the borrowing DCFC has from MSD. 

Your company would never be part of RR's accounts, whereas DCFC, Gellaw Newco 203 and the other 4 companies are a commonly owned group & produce consolidated accounts. 

In a nutshell, you're talking rubbish. 

 

[i-Ram]

[G STAR RAM]

25 minutes ago, Dcfc_Sterling said:

If you set up a company to buy shares in Rolls Royce you'd only own fraction of shares in RR - unless you're a billionaire.

Gellaw Newco 203 wholly owns DCFC Ltd and is part of an arrangement (Debentures) that secures the borrowing DCFC has from MSD. 

Your company would never be part of RR's accounts, whereas DCFC, Gellaw Newco 203 and the other 4 companies are a commonly owned group & produce consolidated accounts. 

In a nutshell, you're talking rubbish. 

So do DCFC owe MM money?

If so, can you please show me where it appears on the statement of affairs released by the administrators?

[Dcfc_Sterling]

29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So do DCFC owe MM money?

If so, can you please show me where it appears on the statement of affairs released by the administrators?

Are you saying DCFC, Gellaw 203 and the other 4 companies aren't inextricably linked by owner/security given to MSD/inter-company debts etc? 

if thats the case, why the need to put DCFC into admin resulted in all 6 companies ( including Sevco 5112/Gellaw Newco 203 which don't even trade) having to enter administration simultaneously ?

 

FYI, see under "Liabilities" then "unsecured creditors" and you'll see Directors loan account of £123m. hope this helps with your understanding.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Dcfc_Sterling

[tinman]

So who’s arguing what here? 

[i-Ram]

39 minutes ago, tinman said:

So who’s arguing what here? 

Nobody now. Looks like @G STAR RAM has had the equivalent of his football being punctured by @Dcfc_Sterlingand his garden fork. Let’s see tomorrow.