Bad behaviour by Derby (& coventry) fans again

[Day]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yeah of course they do. But having to give the police your name because you're wearing a certain brand of clothing???

I had my name taken walking to work, was 4am, had my hood up, wearing all black with a backpack.

My fault, could see how I looked dodgy at that time, especially with a Stanley knife in my bag.

Didn't have any issue with it, I haven't been given a criminal record, the Police just took my name so if anything was to happen fitting my profile then they would know where to look.

[Gone]

1 minute ago, David said:

If I was to go out now wearing a full dog costume, people would think I'm a furry. 

I would be doing so in the full knowledge that's what will happen, likewise if you wear these badges on your arms, you will be see as a or wannabe hooligan.

You say it's lazy, although when you see these badges on display in all these videos, it's easy to see why it creates a reputation. 

Don't want to be seen that way? Wear something else, or remove the badge and put in your pocket, not hard is it?

Why should you? If that’s what people want to wear fair play to them. Judging people by what they wear is extremely poor form and I’m surprised to be honest. 

[Day]

1 minute ago, TexasRam said:

Why should you? If that’s what people want to wear fair play to them. Judging people by what they wear is extremely poor form and I’m surprised to be honest. 

You don't think this happens even in job interviews?

If I was to walk in wearing tracksuit bottoms stuffed into socks, trainers and a hoodie for a 40k a year job, do you think I would get it?

Or should I wear a suit, make myself look presentable giving the right impression?

[Ram-Alf]

4 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Why should you? If that’s what people want to wear fair play to them. Judging people by what they wear is extremely poor form and I’m surprised to be honest. 

I'd certainly be asking questions.

[angieram]

Can we have some photos of this stuff? I have no idea what you're all referring to!

[Ram-Alf]

1 minute ago, David said:

You don't think this happens even in job interviews?

If I was to walk in wearing tracksuit bottoms stuffed into socks, trainers and a hoodie for a 40k a year job, do you think I would get it?

Or should I wear a suit, make myself look presentable giving the right impression?

You've never forgotten that interview have you?

[Gone]

Just now, David said:

You don't think this happens even in job interviews?

If I was to walk in wearing tracksuit bottoms stuffed into socks, trainers and a hoodie for a 40k a year job, do you think I would get it?

Or should I wear a suit, make myself look presentable giving the right impression?

Completely different David. What I’m interpreting from your comments is anybody wear X brand is a Neanderthal thug, that’s completely wrong and poor imo 

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, David said:

I had my name taken walking to work, was 4am, had my hood up, wearing all black with a backpack.

My fault, could see how I looked dodgy at that time, especially with a Stanley knife in my bag.

Didn't have any issue with it, I haven't been given a criminal record, the Police just took my name so if anything was to happen fitting my profile then they would know where to look.

It comes down to an element of reasonable suspicion i.e., is it reasonable to stop someone based upon clothing and appearance. In some cases it might be deemed so for a wide variety of factors, for instance you being stopped at 4 in the morning with your hood up seems pretty reasonable. It's an unusual time to be out, your appearance could be interpreted as concealing your identity and you've got a bag that could be used to carry weapons or tools to break in somewhere.  I had a similar incident during lockdown, was walking back from A and E late at night and I had a good bit of blood on my trousers and jumper, the police stopped me near my house asked me some questions and took a few details.  These both seem like reasonable stops considering the time, the circumstances, and the clothing we both were wearing. 

However, picking people out at an airport simply because of a jacket they happen to be wearing is a little more difficult to justify. There doesn't seem to be any reasonable grounds to stop someone apart on the basis of the item of clothing in question apart from a fellow association with a minority who  engage in criminal acts. Using the grounds of personal choice doesn't seem adequate to justify this, for instance, would you be happy if airport security started stopping Muslims because of clothing identifiers such as the Niqab or Hijab because a very small minority of muslims commit grotesque crimes?  

[Ram-Alf]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Can we have some photos of this stuff? I have no idea what you're all referring to!

Here you go Angie

[Comrade 86]

20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Dont remember saying that?

 

So not the same at all then. Glad we got that sorted ?

[Leeds Ram]

5 minutes ago, David said:

You don't think this happens even in job interviews?

If I was to walk in wearing tracksuit bottoms stuffed into socks, trainers and a hoodie for a 40k a year job, do you think I would get it?

Or should I wear a suit, make myself look presentable giving the right impression?

I think there's a difference between something that does happen and something that shouldn't happen. I personally don't think clothing is a reliable descriptor of someone's skill set or levels of dedication. I might be biased when it comes to this as I often look scruffier than most of my students when teaching. 

[Day]

Just now, TexasRam said:

Completely different David. What I’m interpreting from your comments is anybody wear X brand is a Neanderthal thug, that’s completely wrong and poor imo 

Not that different, you have a choice in what you wear and the impression you want to give. 

I'm not saying everyone that wears Stone Island is automatically a hooligan, just that's how they will be seen rightly or wrongly as the reputation those wearing the brand have created.

Go look at the pics and videos, that badge is everywhere.

Let's say Calvin Klein became the next "uniform" of the thugs/hooligans, I would retire any items of Calvin Klein clothing, as I don't want to be associated with that kind of thing.

Each to their own though.

[cstand]

Professor of crowd control from Cambridge University and a community worker discussing soccer violence.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by cstand

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It comes down to an element of reasonable suspicion i.e., is it reasonable to stop someone based upon clothing and appearance. In some cases it might be deemed so for a wide variety of factors, for instance you being stopped at 4 in the morning with your hood up seems pretty reasonable. It's an unusual time to be out, your appearance could be interpreted as concealing your identity and you've got a bag that could be used to carry weapons or tools to break in somewhere.  I had a similar incident during lockdown, was walking back from A and E late at night and I had a good bit of blood on my trousers and jumper, the police stopped me near my house asked me some questions and took a few details.  These both seem like reasonable stops considering the time, the circumstances, and the clothing we both were wearing. 

However, picking people out at an airport simply because of a jacket they happen to be wearing is a little more difficult to justify. There doesn't seem to be any reasonable grounds to stop someone apart on the basis of the item of clothing in question apart from a fellow association with a minority who  engage in criminal acts. Using the grounds of personal choice doesn't seem adequate to justify this, for instance, would you be happy if airport security started stopping Muslims because of clothing identifiers such as the Niqab or Hijab because a very small minority of muslims commit grotesque crimes?  

Sharon Beshenivsky police officer was Murdered, Her Murderer left the Country dressed in full female Muslim clothing from head to foot including hiding of the face, He left the Country undetected, Since then our Security Forces are being more vigilant, Where they weren't then...so yes it does happen.

When we were stopped it was a very common practice, If you grew up in the 70s and 80s-90s and you with a group of like minded males, You were expected to be stopped, Most teams would have Police intelligence officers DCFCs was...Allan Guy, A nasty grassing so and so, Who got what for back in the day, Inocents were targeted so he would keep getting his funding from the Government, The more that were stopped and searched the longer the funding.

[Day]

9 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

However, picking people out at an airport simply because of a jacket they happen to be wearing is a little more difficult to justify. There doesn't seem to be any reasonable grounds to stop someone apart on the basis of the item of clothing in question apart from a fellow association with a minority who  engage in criminal acts. Using the grounds of personal choice doesn't seem adequate to justify this, for instance, would you be happy if airport security started stopping Muslims because of clothing identifiers such as the Niqab or Hijab because a very small minority of muslims commit grotesque crimes?  

It's an airport, a flight to an England game with very few details. Were they sat quietly doing crosswords, drinking coffee?

From all the CCTV footage of terrorists, I'm yet to see one in traditional Muslim clothing on the way to detonate a bomb, so not sure why they would be stopped.

Where as look at the CCTV footage of football hooligans, the goggles and Stone Island badges will be seen everywhere. Go look.

This is going to go down the path where are women wearing short skirts advertising the fact they are up for it, not at all. 

We're talking about a football culture where these incidents always take place.

[Carnero]

2 minutes ago, cstand said:

Professor of crowd control from Cambridge University and a community worker discussing soccer violence.
 

 

He sounds very much like Professor Pope discussing accounting standards.

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Sharon Beshenivsky police officer was Murdered, Her Murderer left the Country dressed in full female Muslim clothing from head to foot including hiding of the face, He left the Country undetected, Since then our Security Forces are being more vigilant, Where they weren't then...so yes it does happen.

When we were stopped it was a very common practice, If you grew up in the 70s and 80s-90s and you with a group of like minded males, You were expected to be stopped, Most teams would have Police intelligence officers DCFCs was...Allan Guy, A nasty grassing so and so, Who got what for back in the day, Inocents were targeted so he would keep getting his funding from the Government, The more that were stopped and searched the longer the funding.

The real question is should they be doing it. Some people such as Sam Harris believe this kind of stop and searching is an efficient, effective mechanism to strengthen security at airports and other venues. Others believe it's inefficient and ultimately constitutes unreasonable searches that shouldn't be happening. I'd err on the side of the latter rather than the former i think, as I think singling someone out should come from a material basis that is likely to be relevant. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

24 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Here you go Angie

I'm sure they all bother me in Jorrocks on a Saturday.  They were a lot bigger in my day.  Push the first one and they'll fall like dominos, unless someone farts and blows them over first.

[S8TY]

29 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Completely different David. What I’m interpreting from your comments is anybody wear X brand is a Neanderthal thug, that’s completely wrong and poor imo 

I get where David is coming from when you wear a stone island item to football you’re basically either trying to look tough or make others think you’re a hooligan and although maybe some aren’t it makes them feel tough and creates an impression 

but considering the above and you were a normal law abiding good citizen who has no intention of causing it being involved in football trouble would you wear the stone island gear? You may have some stone island clothing but I’ve been to hundreds of Derby games and the general rule of thumb is if you wear that sort of thing to football you’re giving an impression of yourself so don’t wear it 

let’s not kid ourselves here most of the youngsters who wear probably fake SI gear bought from eBay are usually wannabe look at me I’m hard  idiots 

[G STAR RAM]

27 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

So not the same at all then. Glad we got that sorted ?

Well it depends in what context. 

Profiling someone on the colour of their skin, where they live, the car they drive, the clothes the wear is the same to me, its wrong.