When football dies

[jono]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

No offence & obviously things are far from rosy at the minute but seen a few of these posts recently & its doing my head in. To deal with the two suggestions;

1. Only cash-rich/existing Premiership teams can compete anymore

Well, we thought that for much of 2000-2015 and then Leicester happened. And Leeds rose from the dead. And Brentford's shrewd model won them promotion. And Swansea and Wigan won major trophies. In a divisional system progress is always possible & but like it ever was, it needs consistently good decision making, good appointments to manage the football club as a whole & a long term plan. Not the short term 'boom or bust'/celebrity chasing/chuck a load of cash at it nonsense we've specialised in for all bar 2010-14

2. Derby will cease to exist so what do you do then

There will always be a club in Derby...always. Even if the absolute worst case scenario happened which I think is so unlikely as not to worry about, there are the examples of Glasgow Rangers, Wimbledon, Napoli & Fiorentina to look at. Bury will return in time too. The point here is that the fans are the club, not its legal entity

This is a one club city & a city that is passionate about football. There 100% would be a phoenix club & in time it'd be seen as a continuation of the old club - the idea we'd even consider supporting the bindippers for a second makes me vom in my mouth

That’s the thing. I live here and what happens to the entity that is DCFC as a league club of a certain level is, in extremis,  of little import. League 1, League 2 there will always be a business of some sort carrying the name and playing football. So I’ll turn up, personal finances permitting obviously. 
 

Of course I want to see us in the press, on TV playing big names and making the right sort of headlines but if we can maybe half fill a decent stadium for a sporting contest, show some skill, passion and score some goals .. the rest is icing. It’s a game ! 

[minesahartington]

26 minutes ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

Do you go with one man?

Do you go with your owner?

[Gandalf's shin pads]

1 hour ago, TimRam said:

100m for 1 player. The Premiership summed up really. Problem is a lot of young people just getting into football want to support the 'winners' and see instant success so it's never ending circle. My nephew said he felt like an "outcast" where football was concerned at school as almost everyone else supported the 'big six' and constantly questioned why he followed Derby.

This is what will kill small and medium sized clubs such as Derby in the end.

I come from Heanor and when I was at school (80s/90s) the vast majority of my classmates who were interested in football supported either Derby or Forest with the odd 'glory hunter' or unless they came from elsewhere. You supported your local team because it's where you came from and it's what your family and friends did.

That has completely changed now. The younger fan base is being lost to more glamorous, better promoted/more visible and richer 'Super Clubs' both from the Prem and abroad. It won't be long before that starts being reflected in game attendance. Full Houses, even for Forest, could soon be a thing of the past.

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Hopefully the Forum would continue in some form. I feel a lot closer to, and care more for, this community than I do the club at the moment.

?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 hours ago, seths-cap said:

Sorry if this sounds completely miserable. I’ve being thinking about where football will be in 10 years time? The ever growing gap between the premier league and the rest of us, at what point will the bubble burst and teams just start disappearing, being unable to afford to compete or even operate? 
 

Rather then drag out some long winded depressing paragraph I’ll simply ask you this, should Derby cease to exist and there be two leagues left in English football, your nearest local club being someone like Leicester ruddy city, do you give up on football?

Yep,  pretty pointless without  your team

[NottsRam77]

I find it so worrying and scary that we’re even talking Like this 

[MK-Ram]

Football won't die, far from it, but poorly managed clubs are in big trouble moving forwards and I worry we are looking at us being the next Bury.

[Bill Curry]

I became disillusioned with the professional game almost 20 years ago now.  For me it was spoilt by greed and the increasing financial domination of the so-called big six.  I follow the Rams now out of habit more than anything else. The best example I can give you of why I became disillusioned is a recent one.  It can be defined by two words. 

Lionel Messi.

Cries crocodile tears at a press conference because his current club can't afford to pay him 50 squillion euros a year to add to his already vast fortune which must be bigger than a third world debt. He he really wanted to play then he could afford to do so for nothing for the rest of his career.

I had a DCFC season ticket from the early sixties in the days of Tim Ward up to 2006 when I retired.  I stopped buying a ST then and never had one since, being unable to justify the silly amount it now costs.

Other team - well I've watched Belper Town for a long time now and have a Concessionary Season Ticket for the princely sum of £65 a year, full price being is a bit more.  For that I get a friendly club where they seemingly know everyone by their first name, a really good standard of football, a pleasant social club and some of the best match food available anywhere at VERY cheap prices.

If Belper are playing too far away for me to travel, I go the Matlock Town, Alfreton Town, Heanor Town or Mickleover Sports.

I enjoy my football now far more then I ever did when I was watching the Rams, especially latterly.

 

Bill

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Bill Curry

[GenBr]

3 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

No offence & obviously things are far from rosy at the minute but seen a few of these posts recently & its doing my head in. To deal with the two suggestions;

1. Only cash-rich/existing Premiership teams can compete anymore

Well, we thought that for much of 2000-2015 and then Leicester happened. And Leeds rose from the dead. And Brentford's shrewd model won them promotion. And Swansea and Wigan won major trophies. In a divisional system progress is always possible & but like it ever was, it needs consistently good decision making, good appointments to manage the football club as a whole & a long term plan. Not the short term 'boom or bust'/celebrity chasing/chuck a load of cash at it nonsense we've specialised in for all bar 2010-14

2. Derby will cease to exist so what do you do then

There will always be a club in Derby...always. Even if the absolute worst case scenario happened which I think is so unlikely as not to worry about, there are the examples of Glasgow Rangers, Wimbledon, Napoli & Fiorentina to look at. Bury will return in time too. The point here is that the fans are the club, not its legal entity

This is a one club city & a city that is passionate about football. There 100% would be a phoenix club & in time it'd be seen as a continuation of the old club - the idea we'd even consider supporting the bindippers for a second makes me vom in my mouth

On the money side its not even like we weren't doing the same in our glory days. We were setting transfer records ourselves under Sir Brian. Chelsea had won less league titles than us until Ambramovich came along, Man City were doing nothing until their takeover and as you say Leicester are now in the mix as well. The likes of Tottenham and Arsenal are falling down the pecking order and being replaced. The "big clubs" group is always changing.

As for what would i do if Derby cease to exist i'd just gi and watch the phoenix club in tier 16.

 

 

[Mostyn6]

14 minutes ago, Bill Curry said:

Lionel Messi.

Cries crocodile tears at a press conference because his current club can't afford to pay him 50 squillion euros a year to add to his already vast fortune which must be bigger than a third world debt. He he really wanted to play then he could afford to do so for nothing for the rest of his career.

Sorry to burst your bubble but i suggest you do a little bit of basic research cos you look a bit daft here. He could NOT have played for free (for Barcelona), he couldn’t have even paid them to let him play. Rules exist. 

[Bill Curry]

deleted

Edited August 16, 2021 by Bill Curry

[Bill Curry]

4 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but i suggest you do a little bit of basic research cos you look a bit daft here. He could NOT have played for free (for Barcelona), he couldn’t have even paid them to let him play. Rules exist. 

You miss the point entirely.... but never mind.  

The point remains that the game is dominated by greed. Like I said he could certainly afford to play for nothing for the rest of his career.  Whether he would or could is I agree, doubtful.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Bill Curry

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, Bill Curry said:

You miss the point entirely.... but never mind.  

The point remains that the game is dominated by greed.

 

No I don’t. You’re slating Leo Messi and his crocodile tears (for not being able to stay at Barca) when it wasn’t money, or the lack of it, that prevented him staying. 
 

show me where greed by Messi negates his “crocodile tears”. 

[Bill Curry]

8 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

No I don’t. You’re slating Leo Messi and his crocodile tears (for not being able to stay at Barca) when it wasn’t money, or the lack of it, that prevented him staying. 
 

show me where greed by Messi negates his “crocodile tears”. 

I'm not arguing with you, Mostyn.  Lionel Messi was just an example.  If it doesn't work for you then I'm sorry.

The game is dominated by greed.

End of.

 

 

[Mostyn6]

3 minutes ago, Bill Curry said:

I'm not arguing with you, Mostyn.  Lionel Messi was just an example.  If it doesn't work for you then I'm sorry.

The game is dominated by greed.

End of.

 

 

The game has been ruined by greed, you’re 100% correct, you just picked a bad example. 

[jono]

1 hour ago, Gandalf's shin pads said:

This is what will kill small and medium sized clubs such as Derby in the end.

I come from Heanor and when I was at school (80s/90s) the vast majority of my classmates who were interested in football supported either Derby or Forest with the odd 'glory hunter' or unless they came from elsewhere. You supported your local team because it's where you came from and it's what your family and friends did.

That has completely changed now. The younger fan base is being lost to more glamorous, better promoted/more visible and richer 'Super Clubs' both from the Prem and abroad. It won't be long before that starts being reflected in game attendance. Full Houses, even for Forest, could soon be a thing of the past.

It’s such a strange thing, the whole sense of being a fan. Why do we do it.

I’ve told this tale before but it’s worth telling because this post makes a good point.

I never much liked Football as a kid, sure I knocked a ball in the garden but I liked cars, engines and motor sport … because that was what my Dad was in to.

My Grandad was a football man. He took my younger brother to Old Trafford every week.. then one day when I was about 15-16 my brother was ill .. I went instead. I was sold and in love way before kickoff, 2nd division  .. but that noise, the passion, the songs .. Then I lived through a time for the next 5 or 6 years when going to home games .. the win rate was like 70% . God I was on a role .. this was fun. Granddad got older, season tickets got expensive, girlfriends came along and I lost football ( Then 20 years on I moved to Derby.. sure I checked the papers, watched the TV, loved the treble season but it was as a plastic half fan. Not a glory hunter, I was a long time fan after all wasn’t I ? 

Odd game at pride park over the next 15 years and then Season ticket on a whim in 2014 .. Talk about born again. What had I been missing ! .. This was what I remembered football was all about. Thanks Mac ! 

Thing is I always made a once a year visit back to OT .. but it got worse and worse every time I went. Didn’t know the players, didn’t “feel” it. It was like an expensive Macdonalds .. so artificial, “match day experience” portion controlled, branded. 
 

I never understood what “triumph and disaster” meant until DCFC came a long .. god I love you, thank you Derby, now I really know ? .. league 1 league 2 .. whatever .. don’t care. It’s magic and exactly what I felt 50+ years ago. I see the same faces every game, they don’t know me, I don’t know them, but we know each other and we want the same thing. We wake up on Sunday after a win with a little smirk on our face, we get a little flutter when we set off for the ground on Saturday, you nod at the guys sitting near you even though you don’t know their names, only have that one thing in common. you laugh cry  banter and it means something .You can’t do that in the higher reaches of the prem .. it’s an artificial  money machine with football as the wall paper using our PIN numbers to make it work. Fans of the big clubs are a product to be milked. Fans of clubs like Derby are football and what it was always meant to be. It won’t die .. it will simply move down the leagues while the premier league becomes an investment commodity  like pork bellies or soya bean futures..good luck to them, I am not buying.

 

 

[Ellafella]

5 hours ago, seths-cap said:

Sorry if this sounds completely miserable. I’ve being thinking about where football will be in 10 years time? The ever growing gap between the premier league and the rest of us, at what point will the bubble burst and teams just start disappearing, being unable to afford to compete or even operate? 
 

Rather then drag out some long winded depressing paragraph I’ll simply ask you this, should Derby cease to exist and there be two leagues left in English football, your nearest local club being someone like Leicester ruddy city, do you give up on football?

Great question. 
Your extrapolation will occur. 
Thing is.. your football club is like your life partner - once they’ve died, that’s it. 

[Ellafella]

1 hour ago, Bill Curry said:

I became disillusioned with the professional game almost 20 years ago now.  For me it was spoilt by greed and the increasing financial domination of the so-called big six.  I follow the Rams now out of habit more than anything else. The best example I can give you of why I became disillusioned is a recent one.  It can be defined by two words. 

Lionel Messi.

Cries crocodile tears at a press conference because his current club can't afford to pay him 50 squillion euros a year to add to his already vast fortune which must be bigger than a third world debt. He he really wanted to play then he could afford to do so for nothing for the rest of his career.

I had a DCFC season ticket from the early sixties in the days of Tim Ward up to 2006 when I retired.  I stopped buying a ST then and never had one since, being unable to justify the silly amount it now costs.

Other team - well I've watched Belper Town for a long time now and have a Concessionary Season Ticket for the princely sum of £65 a year, full price being is a bit more.  For that I get a friendly club where they seemingly know everyone by their first name, a really good standard of football, a pleasant social club and some of the best match food available anywhere at VERY cheap prices.

If Belper are playing too far away for me to travel, I go the Matlock Town, Alfreton Town, Heanor Town or Mickleover Sports.

I enjoy my football now far more then I ever did when I was watching the Rams, especially latterly.

 

Bill

 

 

Great post. Absolutely agree about Messi and the whole Media bought it as if it was sincerely a sad day for football. ?

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

I'd finish my 92/72 - or 52 or however many are left by then!

Then I'd go back to my first love Ofton Town. 

My 1st ever proper football match (paying to watch) was Alfreton v Barrow FA cup 1969. Seems to be a lot more enjoyment watching grass roots football if i'm honest.

[Ellafella]

39 minutes ago, jono said:

It’s such a strange thing, the whole sense of being a fan. Why do we do it.

I’ve told this tale before but it’s worth telling because this post makes a good point.

I never much liked Football as a kid, sure I knocked a ball in the garden but I liked cars, engines and motor sport … because that was what my Dad was in to.

My Grandad was a football man. He took my younger brother to Old Trafford every week.. then one day when I was about 15-16 my brother was ill .. I went instead. I was sold and in love way before kickoff, 2nd division  .. but that noise, the passion, the songs .. Then I lived through a time for the next 5 or 6 years when going to home games .. the win rate was like 70% . God I was on a role .. this was fun. Granddad got older, season tickets got expensive, girlfriends came along and I lost football ( Then 20 years on I moved to Derby.. sure I checked the papers, watched the TV, loved the treble season but it was as a plastic half fan. Not a glory hunter, I was a long time fan after all wasn’t I ? 

Odd game at pride park over the next 15 years and then Season ticket on a whim in 2014 .. Talk about born again. What had I been missing ! .. This was what I remembered football was all about. Thanks Mac ! 

Thing is I always made a once a year visit back to OT .. but it got worse and worse every time I went. Didn’t know the players, didn’t “feel” it. It was like an expensive Macdonalds .. so artificial, “match day experience” portion controlled, branded. 
 

I never understood what “triumph and disaster” meant until DCFC came a long .. god I love you, thank you Derby, now I really know ? .. league 1 league 2 .. whatever .. don’t care. It’s magic and exactly what I felt 50+ years ago. I see the same faces every game, they don’t know me, I don’t know them, but we know each other and we want the same thing. We wake up on Sunday after a win with a little smirk on our face, we get a little flutter when we set off for the ground on Saturday, you nod at the guys sitting near you even though you don’t know their names, only have that one thing in common. you laugh cry  banter and it means something .You can’t do that in the higher reaches of the prem .. it’s an artificial  money machine with football as the wall paper using our PIN numbers to make it work. Fans of the big clubs are a product to be milked. Fans of clubs like Derby are football and what it was always meant to be. It won’t die .. it will simply move down the leagues while the premier league becomes an investment commodity  like pork bellies or soya bean futures..good luck to them, I am not buying.

 

 

Lovely.