Has the transfer embargo been lifted?

[Kernow]

9 minutes ago, Rample said:

Seen a tweet from Nixon saying we might be able to sign 4 more.. but I can't find it again. I don't do twitter.

He's said that the EFL will let us sign 4 more if Morris can guarantee them that he'll continue to finance the club if there's no takeover.

Essentially, it seems he's suggesting that Morris is reluctant to commit to us financially should a takeover not go through, and the EFL are reluctant to let us add more without that assurance. Whether that's true or not, I have no idea, but that's what Nixon thinks anyway...

[MikeS]

Rumour apparently in Turkish papers that Galatasaray have made an opening bid for Jozwiak. Said to be close to Derby's valuation.

 

[DCFC1388]

3 hours ago, Kernow said:

He's said that the EFL will let us sign 4 more if Morris can guarantee them that he'll continue to finance the club if there's no takeover.

Essentially, it seems he's suggesting that Morris is reluctant to commit to us financially should a takeover not go through, and the EFL are reluctant to let us add more without that assurance. Whether that's true or not, I have no idea, but that's what Nixon thinks anyway...

In this instance, if what Nixon states is true, then we cant really blame the EFL for not letting us sign anymore if Morris refuses to show his commitment to pay these additional players if we dont get a new owner. 

[Kernow]

44 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

In this instance, if what Nixon states is true, then we cant really blame the EFL for not letting us sign anymore if Morris refuses to show his commitment to pay these additional players if we dont get a new owner. 

No I wouldn’t blame the EFL at all, however Nixon does put an awful lot of “info” out there and does get an awful lot wrong.

I guess time will tell, I don’t see why the EFL would agree on letting us sign 4 without assurances, but allow another 4 with assurances. The whole situation is one big mess it seems.

[Grumpy Git]

5 hours ago, MikeS said:

Rumour apparently in Turkish papers that Galatasaray have made an opening bid for Jozwiak. Said to be close to Derby's valuation.

 

Start the car, I'm driving.

[JfR]

2 hours ago, Kernow said:

No I wouldn’t blame the EFL at all, however Nixon does put an awful lot of “info” out there and does get an awful lot wrong.

I guess time will tell, I don’t see why the EFL would agree on letting us sign 4 without assurances, but allow another 4 with assurances. The whole situation is one big mess it seems.

I think it also depends a lot on what "assurances" the EFL want. I'd imagine it's more than just getting a verbal confirmation from Mel. If, for example, they're treating it similarly to when Alonso tried to take over, and they want proof of funds being available to cover the season, I could understand why it's taken Mel longer than a week to have that available.

[Spanish]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Missed something there. Are you saying that now that Morrison is our last signing whilst embargoed (who brings us up to 23 professional standing players) that Cashin and Thompson cannot play or just that they couldn't play before signing Morrison?

agreed, that makes no sense, we don't have a cap on professional players as long as we dont try to register more new players.  the more we 'promote' the less likely it is that we can recruit jags as an example

[RoyMac5]

12 hours ago, Gladram said:

This is what it says on the EFL website about upgrading players when under an embargo

 

But this bit seems to be the relevant bit, but thinking about it again, we wouldn't need to 'upgrade' their contract would we @Gladram? It's just we'd have more than 23 players of professional standing if Cashin played in the Cup? 

[duncanjwitham]

43 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But this bit seems to be the relevant bit, but thinking about it again, we wouldn't need to 'upgrade' their contract would we @Gladram? It's just we'd have more than 23 players of professional standing if Cashin played in the Cup? 

Upgrading their contracts isn't an issue, the players we're talking about playing (Cashin etc) have already signed professional contracts, as far as I know.  We upgraded (or possibly just extended) Ebosele's contract this summer, so it seems the EFL are allowing us to do stuff with academy players anyway.  The relevant bit is the first bit - registering academy players. But again, all of those players are already registered and given squad numbers.

[RoyMac5]

42 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Upgrading their contracts isn't an issue, the players we're talking about playing (Cashin etc) have already signed professional contracts, as far as I know.  We upgraded (or possibly just extended) Ebosele's contract this summer, so it seems the EFL are allowing us to do stuff with academy players anyway.  The relevant bit is the first bit - registering academy players. But again, all of those players are already registered and given squad numbers.

I know that. But it seems that (still?) the relevant bit is what the EFL allow:

"The 23 players of "professional standing" does not normally include players under 21 who have progressed from the Academy, but it seems that Derby's embargo is more restrictive and includes such players, as things stand.

"The squad is full because the young lads are getting classed as first-team players, which takes up a spot. That is where we are at. The minute things change they get dropped from that (standing), then I probably have I think 11 or 12 spots which I can fill. Unless things change that won't be achievable, if it changes then I have got a lot of room to look at different players."

Derby County transfers: Jagielka, Carroll and Baldock latest as Wayne Rooney sets sights on trio - Derbyshire Live (derbytelegraph.co.uk)

Edited August 9, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Gladram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

But this bit seems to be the relevant bit, but thinking about it again, we wouldn't need to 'upgrade' their contract would we @Gladram? It's just we'd have more than 23 players of professional standing if Cashin played in the 

Yes, that's how I read it. You can have more than 23 of professional standing. If Cashin, for example, played and we sold a player we couldn't replace them.

[Ghost of Clough]

29 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I know that. But it seems that (still?) the relevant bit is what the EFL allow:

"The 23 players of "professional standing" does not normally include players under 21 who have progressed from the Academy, but it seems that Derby's embargo is more restrictive and includes such players, as things stand.

"The squad is full because the young lads are getting classed as first-team players, which takes up a spot. That is where we are at. The minute things change they get dropped from that (standing), then I probably have I think 11 or 12 spots which I can fill. Unless things change that won't be achievable, if it changes then I have got a lot of room to look at different players."

Derby County transfers: Jagielka, Carroll and Baldock latest as Wayne Rooney sets sights on trio - Derbyshire Live (derbytelegraph.co.uk)

Hard embargo = 'professional standing' = includes U21s

Soft embargo = 'established players' = doesn't include U21s

The EFL, according to Nixon at least, will ease the professional standing rule (4 more signings) if Mel provides proof of funding for the entire season. This may also mean we can offer up to £12k wages rather than the current £4.5k.

Based on the rules, to get out of a hard embargo we need to clear the HMRC bill and submit our accounts.To then get out of the soft embargo we would also need to prove the relevant P&S docs to the EFL.
The EFL have shown leniency towards us. Firstly, they allowed us to discount the Chorley game (8 players), and now they appear to let us sign more than our max quota (conditional).

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Hard embargo = 'professional standing' = includes U21s

Soft embargo = 'established players' = doesn't include U21s

The EFL, according to Nixon at least, will ease the professional standing rule (4 more signings) if Mel provides proof of funding for the entire season. This may also mean we can offer up to £12k wages rather than the current £4.5k.

Based on the rules, to get out of a hard embargo we need to clear the HMRC bill and submit our accounts. To then get out of the soft embargo we would also need to prove the relevant P&S docs to the EFL.
The EFL have shown leniency towards us. Firstly, they allowed us to discount the Chorley game (8 players), and now they appear to let us sign more than our max quota (conditional).

It all seems a bit - 'get on with it Mel'? Would he need to provide proof of funding if he sorted 'the tax bill' and submitted the accounts (due 18th August latest?)? Or do you think that even in soft embargo we will have the wage restriction? How have they 'let us sign more than our max quota'?

Edited August 9, 2021 by RoyMac5

[cheron85]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Hard embargo = 'professional standing' = includes U21s

Soft embargo = 'established players' = doesn't include U21s

The EFL, according to Nixon at least, will ease the professional standing rule (4 more signings) if Mel provides proof of funding for the entire season. This may also mean we can offer up to £12k wages rather than the current £4.5k.

Based on the rules, to get out of a hard embargo we need to clear the HMRC bill and submit our accounts.To then get out of the soft embargo we would also need to prove the relevant P&S docs to the EFL.
The EFL have shown leniency towards us. Firstly, they allowed us to discount the Chorley game (8 players), and now they appear to let us sign more than our max quota (conditional).

I fully confess to not being a financial wizard - But I don't understand how Morris could commit to funding the club for a year before the EFL have confirmed our accounting method is correct? If they ask us to change the accounting method again then it might be the difference of hundreds of thousands of pounds extra which he'd have to put in - Asking him to write a blank cheque at this point seems a bit odd/unfair?

Feels quite chicken and egg to me - The EFL want Morris to say he'll support the club for the season but haven't given us the means to calculate how much that would cost him / whether it's feasible 

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I fully confess to not being a financial wizard - But I don't understand how Morris could commit to funding the club for a year before the EFL have confirmed our accounting method is correct? If they ask us to change the accounting method again then it might be the difference of hundreds of thousands of pounds extra which he'd have to put in - Asking him to write a blank cheque at this point seems a bit odd/unfair?

Feels quite chicken and egg to me - The EFL want Morris to say he'll support the club for the season but haven't given us the means to calculate how much that would cost him / whether it's feasible 

I think the EFL want to know that the cashflow is secure to pay wages and creditors.  The other stuff is balance sheet in the main and is a different issue.  They want to avoid a club not being able to fulfill their fixtures because of the disruption it would cause.  as we have already started it seems a bit late to worry about it

[Phoenix]

37 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Hard embargo = 'professional standing' = includes U21s

Soft embargo = 'established players' = doesn't include U21s

The EFL, according to Nixon at least, will ease the professional standing rule (4 more signings) if Mel provides proof of funding for the entire season. This may also mean we can offer up to £12k wages rather than the current £4.5k.

Based on the rules, to get out of a hard embargo we need to clear the HMRC bill and submit our accounts.To then get out of the soft embargo we would also need to prove the relevant P&S docs to the EFL.
The EFL have shown leniency towards us. Firstly, they allowed us to discount the Chorley game (8 players), and now they appear to let us sign more than our max quota (conditional).

£4.5K is made to sound like an insult. It's actually just shy of quarter of a million a year. I think I could live reasonably comfortably on that.

As for £12K, well thats about £600K a year. Might even be able to upgrade my car on that.

[cheron85]

31 minutes ago, Spanish said:

I think the EFL want to know that the cashflow is secure to pay wages and creditors.  The other stuff is balance sheet in the main and is a different issue.  They want to avoid a club not being able to fulfill their fixtures because of the disruption it would cause.  as we have already started it seems a bit late to worry about it

That's fair

But won't the cashflow (in part) depend on the amount of money we owe HMRC and that's based on the accounts the EFL need to sign off?

Wouldn't Morris also need to know how much cash he can inject and stay within P&S regulations before he can make that promise too?

[Spanish]

10 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

That's fair

But won't the cashflow (in part) depend on the amount of money we owe HMRC and that's based on the accounts the EFL need to sign off?

Wouldn't Morris also need to know how much cash he can inject and stay within P&S regulations before he can make that promise too?

yep and it is a key part of the EFL role to ensure that teams keep up HMRC payments.  I don't there will be a profit in the accounts that will affect HMRC in any way

he can inject anything he wants to as long as it is capitalised and not a loan.  He may still owe us for the stadium and can repay that anytime he wants to .

[U.M.]

17 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

That's fair

But won't the cashflow (in part) depend on the amount of money we owe HMRC and that's based on the accounts the EFL need to sign 

I doubt the HMRC debt has anything to do with the current accounts. We don’t make a profit and have many millions of brought forward tax losses if we did.

It is much more likely to be VAT and PAYE.

[Ghost of Clough]

56 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

It all seems a bit - 'get on with it Mel'? Would he need to provide proof of funding if he sorted 'the tax bill' and submitted the accounts (due 18th August latest?)? Or do you think that even in soft embargo we will have the wage restriction? How have they 'let us sign more than our max quota'?

Get out of embargo and he shouldn't need to provide proof of funding, just like all other clubs not in an embargo.

22 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

£4.5K is made to sound like an insult. It's actually just shy of quarter of a million a year. I think I could live reasonably comfortably on that.

As for £12K, well thats about £600K a year. Might even be able to upgrade my car on that.

It's a lot for us common folk, but it's nothing for a Championship footballer. A bottom 3 wage bill is usually £10-12m, equivalent to 23 players on £8.5-10k pw.
We need to recruit players for our first 11 on wages up to £4.5k, whilst the average bottom 3 player will be on two times that figure. Clubs with a top 12 wage bill pay their players an average of £30k pw (assuming 23 players). Puts a bit of perspective on things, doesn't it?