The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Gaspode]

12 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Unbelievable. 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Unbelievable. 

To be fare, I got mine from China made by Sanyow? 

[Archied]

4 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Of course not seriously! I was just parroting the Johnson apologists repetitions of "he got the big calls right" as his disasterous leadership collapsed around him. He's still trying to claim he was right about things. Him and his ilk are just liars with no decency or morals. They don't even believe in anything, just trying to get more money.

This whole whatsapp message just shows how rotten the whole eddfice is. Hancock trying to get money by having a book written for him about Covid. The journalist writing the book for him gives all the whatsapp messages to a Tory newspaper to publish. Hancock and Journalist arguing in public. The dying Telegraph gets some relevance for 10 minutes. 

These are the elites who have screwed up the UK. These are the ones to blame. Not the Polish builder or the asylum seeker.

Yep agree ,, problem is for me I’ve watched SIR kier for some time to see whether labour ( my historical party of born and bred to ) are going to be any different/ better but the man flip flop ,u turn and support anything or anyone that will take him where he wants to go , as I have said before I will vote for whichever of the smaller parties I feel get closest to my views , I believe that nothing will change until people start doing this in enough numbers to shake / wake them up to the fact they are supposed to represent they’re voters??‍♂️

[Archied]

4 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Just read this article. What a world we live in when our opinion formers are like this...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/01/isabel-oakeshott-the-journalist-who-turned-over-matt-hancock

That’s why I’m prepared to accept that there’s a fair amount of stupidity in these people and they’re actions as well as the greed and power kick

[Archied]

4 hours ago, The Last Post said:

Oakeshott is just another who feeds off of stupidity, She's been interviewed on most if not all TV networks about her thoughts on Covid and lockdowns, The stupidity comes from that toad Hancock who let Oakeshott ghost write his Covid Diaries, She's a viper around his neck and Hancock put her there.

I mean, If you're going to kiss a female other than your wife for pity's sake just look above your head to see if there's camara there, I believe the woman who he kissed has since had her guide dog confiscated 

No it was put down by a vet , Hancock mistook it for a cat

[Rev]

11 minutes ago, Archied said:

No it was put down by a vet , Hancock mistook it for a cat

When it comes to petting, Hancock knows his pussy.

[GboroRam]

From American Journal of public health study of SARS-CoV-2 infection, hospitalisation and death in people aged 12 and over. 

Those who had been vaccinated were twice as likely to test positive for Covid. This could be because (a) previous infection is better at preventing reinfection than vaccination, (b) people who get vaccinated are also more likely to get tested, (c) both (a) and (b).

In terms of hospital visits, those aged 12-19 had significant increases in emergency department visits for the unvaccinated; ages 20-39 had significant increases in emergency department visits, hospitalisations and all-cause mortality.

"Overall younger people were much less likely to die but there was no evidence that younger people suffered overall harm or excess mortality from vaccination compared to those infected without vaccination. Rather the reverse"

[ariotofmyown]

12 hours ago, Archied said:

Yep agree ,, problem is for me I’ve watched SIR kier for some time to see whether labour ( my historical party of born and bred to ) are going to be any different/ better but the man flip flop ,u turn and support anything or anyone that will take him where he wants to go , as I have said before I will vote for whichever of the smaller parties I feel get closest to my views , I believe that nothing will change until people start doing this in enough numbers to shake / wake them up to the fact they are supposed to represent they’re voters??‍♂️

I'm not sure he has u-turned and flip flopped much. A more relevant criticism could be that he hasn't offered that much yet in terms of policy, but I'm still hopeful we'll get that.

But I also think his tactic of just coming across as competent and serious is a decent one.  It may be more than enough on it's own, but could get tougher as Sunak is trying to do the same. But Sunak is still surrounded by some despised individuals.

Potentally, the best long term outcome for the UK is a Tory obileration, but with Lib Dems getting loads of seats too, maybe in a coalition. This could then lead to a change in the voting system where we have a Government more representive of the population's wishes and where all votes actually count.

This would then prevent situations like 2019 election when Tory's won by miles, yet only got 43%, with the rest split across non-right parties.

Or when Ukip got something like 15% of the vote with 1 MP vs SNP getting 40ish MPs with a much lower %. Doesn't feel particularly democratic.

A new system could hopefully reduce the tribalism of the 2 parties, as well as the effectiveness of rich right wing men owning much of the media.

We maybe then could then have a system that allows the country to evolve and grow again, governed by consensous and compromise rather than the whims of money obsessed fools.

 

[Archied]

43 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm not sure he has u-turned and flip flopped much. A more relevant criticism could be that he hasn't offered that much yet in terms of policy, but I'm still hopeful we'll get that.

But I also think his tactic of just coming across as competent and serious is a decent one.  It may be more than enough on it's own, but could get tougher as Sunak is trying to do the same. But Sunak is still surrounded by some despised individuals.

Potentally, the best long term outcome for the UK is a Tory obileration, but with Lib Dems getting loads of seats too, maybe in a coalition. This could then lead to a change in the voting system where we have a Government more representive of the population's wishes and where all votes actually count.

This would then prevent situations like 2019 election when Tory's won by miles, yet only got 43%, with the rest split across non-right parties.

Or when Ukip got something like 15% of the vote with 1 MP vs SNP getting 40ish MPs with a much lower %. Doesn't feel particularly democratic.

A new system could hopefully reduce the tribalism of the 2 parties, as well as the effectiveness of rich right wing men owning much of the media.

We maybe then could then have a system that allows the country to evolve and grow again, governed by consensous and compromise rather than the whims of money obsessed fools.

 

Pretty much agree with most of your post , we will have to agree to disagree on starmer though , this is the man that backed Corbin to the hilt and now throws him out , wants a people’s vote now is ok with brexit ( perhaps a good honest re position from him regards where we are but my gut says no) amongst many other issues , the man just has a stench of Blair to me ,

I will get slated but Corbin in my view has far more deep rooted principles than starmer and if forced to vote for him or starmer. I go Corbin ??‍♂️

[Crewton]

51 minutes ago, Archied said:

I will get slated but Corbin in my view has far more deep rooted principles than starmer and if forced to vote for him or starmer. I go Corbin

I think you're right about the principles - I doubt that Corbyn has changed any of his core beliefs, ever, whilst no-one knows what Starmer's are because for most of his life he wasn't a politician or activist - but some of those principles were things I could never vote for (and none of those relate to tax). 

Now I've posted that I'm sure the politics monitors will be alerted, so I'll stop there. 

[Ram-Alf]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

But Sunak is still surrounded by some despised individuals.

Potentally, the best long term outcome for the UK is a Tory obileration, but with Lib Dems getting loads of seats too, maybe in a coalition. This could then lead to a change in the voting system where we have a Government more representive of the population's wishes and where all votes actually count.

 

 

Amen to this 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Pretty much agree with most of your post , we will have to agree to disagree on starmer though , this is the man that backed Corbin to the hilt and now throws him out , wants a people’s vote now is ok with brexit ( perhaps a good honest re position from him regards where we are but my gut says no) amongst many other issues , the man just has a stench of Blair to me ,

I will get slated but Corbin in my view has far more deep rooted principles than starmer and if forced to vote for him or starmer. I go Corbin ??‍♂️

My names Corbyn, You deserve to get slated...when it's time to put your X you'll get confused ?

Another dying breed from the days of Yore 

[GboroRam]

Cardiovascular research journal research. A cohort of patients with a mean age of 66 who had tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 prior to vaccination. 

In the 21 days after covid infection (the acute phase) patients who were unvaccinated when they caught it suffered substantially higher rate of cardiovascular disease (heart failure, stroke, cardiovascular disease, atrial fibrillation, deep vein thrombosis) and all cause mortality compared to the control groups. 

18 months after follow up there remained a persistently higher risk of major cardiovascular disease and a much higher risk of all-cause mortality in those who caught covid prior to vaccination. 

If the vaccines were causing excess deaths, the all-cause mortality in the contemporary controls should be higher than in the historical controls, but in reality there was no significant difference between the two groups (neither of which had caught covid yet but most of one had been vaccinated). 

[GboroRam]

The Ons has released age standardised mortality rates for 1 April 2022 to 31 December 2022. Whether you look at deaths from all causes or deaths from covid, mortality rates are higher for the unvaccinated. At ages 50-79, its almost double. Far more lives have been saved by mRNA vaccines than have been lost. 

[uttoxram75]

13 hours ago, Archied said:

Pretty much agree with most of your post , we will have to agree to disagree on starmer though , this is the man that backed Corbin to the hilt and now throws him out , wants a people’s vote now is ok with brexit ( perhaps a good honest re position from him regards where we are but my gut says no) amongst many other issues , the man just has a stench of Blair to me ,

I will get slated but Corbin in my view has far more deep rooted principles than starmer and if forced to vote for him or starmer. I go Corbin ??‍♂️

I'm so cynicall nowadays that I've almost given up on politics, but I might as well chuck me two pennorth in.

Starmer is an obvious establishment plant, parachuted into the Labour Party to make sure nothing fundamentally will change whoever has the majority. He is descended from the Peerage like Johnson, Cameron etc, he's one of them, safe pair of hands for the ruling elite.

Corbyn was probably the only leader of either of our main parties, certainly since Wilson, that was not controlled by or actually a member of, what we call the elite/establishment. 

I really don't think most of us realise how much our institutions are controlled by big money, from the security services, media, banking etc. Even the so called new money like the social media companies are ultimately owned or controlled by the old banking dynasties that have always pulled the strings and ultimately own the stock markets of the world.

Sir Keir Starmer is about as left wing as Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage. 

They're all bankers.

 

 

[ariotofmyown]

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

I'm so cynicall nowadays that I've almost given up on politics, but I might as well chuck me two pennorth in.

Starmer is an obvious establishment plant, parachuted into the Labour Party to make sure nothing fundamentally will change whoever has the majority. He is descended from the Peerage like Johnson, Cameron etc, he's one of them, safe pair of hands for the ruling elite.

Corbyn was probably the only leader of either of our main parties, certainly since Wilson, that was not controlled by or actually a member of, what we call the elite/establishment. 

I really don't think most of us realise how much our institutions are controlled by big money, from the security services, media, banking etc. Even the so called new money like the social media companies are ultimately owned or controlled by the old banking dynasties that have always pulled the strings and ultimately own the stock markets of the world.

Sir Keir Starmer is about as left wing as Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage. 

They're all bankers.

 

 

Corbyn wanted to increase taxes, increase borrowing and increase spending. It sent the right wing media into a frenzy and he had to be stopped. Surely this lunacy would bankrupt the country.

How about decreasing taxes and increasing borrowing? That sounds like a great plan right? It got full support from the Mail, Telegraph, Sun etc, who have owners that would benefit massively from the tax cuts for the rich. Also got full support from the handful of rich people who forced Liz Truss on us.  

[ariotofmyown]

23 hours ago, Archied said:

Pretty much agree with most of your post , we will have to agree to disagree on starmer though , this is the man that backed Corbin to the hilt and now throws him out , wants a people’s vote now is ok with brexit ( perhaps a good honest re position from him regards where we are but my gut says no) amongst many other issues , the man just has a stench of Blair to me ,

I will get slated but Corbin in my view has far more deep rooted principles than starmer and if forced to vote for him or starmer. I go Corbin ??‍♂️

I would like us to get away from the place where the leader is all powerful. Where the PM is more of a CEO who has a team of experienced people, who debate and agree on a collective strategy and deliver it. They could even work closely with the civil service, rather than bully them and brief against them.

I think Starmer could operate like this. I don't think Corbyn could have.

Johnson's tactic was to surround himself with hopeless people, thinking he would look good compared to them. It had the opposite effect.

 

[Archied]

11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I would like us to get away from the place where the leader is all powerful. Where the PM is more of a CEO who has a team of experienced people, who debate and agree on a collective strategy and deliver it. They could even work closely with the civil service, rather than bully them and brief against them.

I think Starmer could operate like this. I don't think Corbyn could have.

Johnson's tactic was to surround himself with hopeless people, thinking he would look good compared to them. It had the opposite effect.

 

I like people/ politicians who have clear principles and are brave enough to stand by them and be open , you know where you are with them and even if you don’t agree with them you have half a chance of understanding them and finding some common ground and respect with and for them , that’s important to me and perhaps the result of growing up and living my life in a traditional working class environment 

for me starmer is boris Johnson on Valium ??‍♂️,

the class thing is a very interesting subject to me nowadays. As it’s really shifted and perhaps we have 4 classes now instead of the traditional 3 

[PistoldPete]

16 hours ago, GboroRam said:

The Ons has released age standardised mortality rates for 1 April 2022 to 31 December 2022. Whether you look at deaths from all causes or deaths from covid, mortality rates are higher for the unvaccinated. At ages 50-79, its almost double. Far more lives have been saved by mRNA vaccines than have been lost. 

Far more lives have been saved by mRNA vaccines than have been lost. I think that is if anything a major understatement. So far at least. The numbers of lives that have been lost due to vaccines is vanishingly small. The numbers of lives saved by vaccines, in the UK alone, is probably tens of thousands or more.  

[ariotofmyown]

33 minutes ago, Archied said:

I like people/ politicians who have clear principles and are brave enough to stand by them and be open , you know where you are with them and even if you don’t agree with them you have half a chance of understanding them and finding some common ground and respect with and for them , that’s important to me and perhaps the result of growing up and living my life in a traditional working class environment 

for me starmer is boris Johnson on Valium ??‍♂️,

the class thing is a very interesting subject to me nowadays. As it’s really shifted and perhaps we have 4 classes now instead of the traditional 3 

I think important principles are things like decency and fairness. Starmer has this, Johnson is the opposite.

Political principles are important too, but getting things done is about compromise and listening.

Maybe Starmer's principles are co-operation and nuance. Perhaps not as exciting as undeliverable bold promises, but might be more effective.