The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Bob The Badger]

Adrian Chiles is standing in for Nicky Campbell on the 5Live phone-in this morning. he just had a guy on who said he was having all his family around for Christmas as he does every year.

None of them were vaxxed or have been tested and when asked if he didn't think he was putting his mother at risk said, and I poo you not, 'You're hardly likely to give it to the woman who gave birth o you, are you?'

That level of stupidity is difficult to comprehend.

[maxjam]

9 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

According to the local rag, more than 40 per cent of those aged 12 and over in each of New Normanton, Rose Hill & Castleward and Normanton North & Peartree have not received their first vaccine, with over half in all three areas still not double vaccinated....we're damned to be in covid hell (trying to protect the NHS from being swamped) for evermore while there are so many people refusing the jab......

Maybe we are, but its not the fault of the unvaccinated.

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

South Africa data

 

It seems pretty clear that this variant is milder, maybe it's a good thing this one is spreading so it displaces delta, to a certain extent.

[Guest]

Shall we have a poll on which letter of the Greek alphabet  will be assigned to the next variant

[angieram]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It seems pretty clear that this variant is milder, maybe it's a good thing this one is spreading so it displaces delta, to a certain extent.

I agree it is hopeful BUT we need the government to firstly realise this (they will need longer to be sure) and then to amend the rules accordingly. 

And how long do we give it until the more serious versions can be deemed to have been displaced? 

[sage]

18 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I realise that, but we have to accept that deaths have plummeted.

My wife is on her way home from the hospital after having a test because she's got a sore throat, her glands are up and a bit of a cough.

She's going to try and run a clinic from home on the phone and she's in this weird twilight world and has been for almost 2 years, so I'm not saying we should be relaxing things, I'm saying we should recognise when things change.

I also think way too many people are boxed in to one way of thinking now and will just ignore anything that may throw a different light on things.

People who are anti-vax and anti-mask irritate and annoy me because they are making it harder for the NHS, thats unequivocal. But from a death/serious illness perspective things are vastly improved.

What that actually means is open to debate though.

As John Maynard Keynes said 'When the facts change, I change my mind'

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

And some people think we should be in level 2 lockdowns?!?! Ridiculous!

DELTA OMICRON = MEDIA CONTROL

[Gaspode]

13 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Maybe we are, but its not the fault of the unvaccinated.

It is if you consider that the underlying reason given for the increased restrictions is to protect the NHS. Every single person who refuses the vacine increases their own likelihood of getting a more serious health issue if they contract the virus - thereby needing more help from the NHS to combat the symptoms - thereby increasing the pressure on the NHS.

The more people who are vacinated, the less people that will be needing enhanced care if they contract the virus - that means less pressure on the NHS and less justification for restrictions......

[sage]

10 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

It is if you consider that the underlying reason given for the increased restrictions is to protect the NHS. Every single person who refuses the vacine increases their own likelihood of getting a more serious health issue if they contract the virus - thereby needing more help from the NHS to combat the symptoms - thereby increasing the pressure on the NHS.

The more people who are vacinated, the less people that will be needing enhanced care if they contract the virus - that means less pressure on the NHS and less justification for restrictions......

It's almost like wearing masks and having a vaccine is good for your health. 

[Bob The Badger]

15 minutes ago, angieram said:

I agree it is hopeful BUT we need the government to firstly realise this (they will need longer to be sure) and then to amend the rules accordingly. 

And how long do we give it until the more serious versions can be deemed to have been displaced? 

I don't Have a clue, I'm 100% if favour of letting the scientists tell the Government what to do.

It would seem apparent that some people think that there was some crying of wolf over the NHS collapsing last winter, when it kinda almost did.

But it's like a boxer that's been hammered to the canvas and is groggily getting up, it's not going to take much to knock it back down again.

The entire NHS is worn down and people are dying because of that and other people will die because they don't get needed treatment.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Bob The Badger said:

I don't Have a clue, I'm 100% if favour of letting the scientists tell the Government what to do.

It would seem apparent that some people think that there was some crying of wolf over the NHS collapsing last winter, when it kinda almost did.

But it's like a boxer that's been hammered to the canvas and is groggily getting up, it's not going to take much to knock it back down again.

The entire NHS is worn down and people are dying because of that and other people will die because they don't get needed treatment.

It is not the scientists job to tell the government what to do. They should advise from a health perspective, but the government needs to make the tough decisions by looking at all factors. 

[Wolfie]

16 minutes ago, Carnero said:

DELTA OMICRON = MEDIA CONTROL

ALPHA OMICRON = CHAMPION ORAL

 

[Archied]

28 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

It is if you consider that the underlying reason given for the increased restrictions is to protect the NHS. Every single person who refuses the vacine increases their own likelihood of getting a more serious health issue if they contract the virus - thereby needing more help from the NHS to combat the symptoms - thereby increasing the pressure on the NHS.

The more people who are vacinated, the less people that will be needing enhanced care if they contract the virus - that means less pressure on the NHS and less justification for restrictions......

You mean if they contract omicron which is by all accounts less serious , you mean the ones who are younger and don’t need it as they don’t get it so serious, your basing your blame culture on the unvaccinated on very sketchy figures plus government and media scaremongering, already there are very credible and sensible people ripping this stuff apart simply by checking real figures and showing ministers and media reporters to be plain out lying or at best saying stuff without actually knowing the figures ,, 

let’s see how death and serious hospitalisation FROM covid in vaccinated stack up real world moving forward , my guess is they will turn out similar to the jabs stopping catching and spreading stuff ,

I think it was Jamie Jenkins who a few weeks ago blew the Welsh prime minister’s claims that Welsh hospitals were over run in critical care ,, he clearly pointed out that 3 of 5 critical care beds were occupied in wales and 1 in 5 of those was with a covid patient 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Archied

[maxjam]

25 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

It is if you consider that the underlying reason given for the increased restrictions is to protect the NHS. Every single person who refuses the vacine increases their own likelihood of getting a more serious health issue if they contract the virus - thereby needing more help from the NHS to combat the symptoms - thereby increasing the pressure on the NHS.

The more people who are vacinated, the less people that will be needing enhanced care if they contract the virus - that means less pressure on the NHS and less justification for restrictions......

There are far more double vaccinated being hospitalized with covid than unvaccinated.

Furthermore Covid patients only constitute 5% of all ICU beds (approx 900ppl), with more than half of those being double vaccinated.

If the NHS can't cope with under 2.5% increase (less than 450 unvaccinated) at Christmas at a time when virtually no one is getting ill with regular flu (regularly 20k died pre-covid), maybe we should be questioning its funding and/or its operation.

 

[Gaspode]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

You mean if they contract omicron which is by all accounts less serious , you mean the ones who are younger and don’t need it as they don’t get it so serious, your basing your blame culture on the unvaccinated on very sketchy figures plus government and media scaremongering, already there are very credible and sensible people ripping this stuff apart simply by checking real figures and showing ministers and media reporters to be plain out lying or at best saying stuff without actually knowing the figures ,, 

let’s see how death and serious hospitalisation FROM covid in vaccinated stack up real world moving forward , my guess is they will turn out similar to the jabs stopping catching and spreading stuff 

 Did I say omicron exclusively? As for blame culture, stop being such a victim......

I was responding to a post that said the unvaccinated weren't responsible for the never-ending cycle of lockdowns and restrictions. There is a clearly defined link between the seriousness of the symptoms people experience if they are vaccinated compared to those that aren't - the unvaccinated suffer worse symptoms and need more help - and that means the NHS has to step in and use more of their resources - with a knock on effect to the treatment of other 'non-Covid' patients and the overall capacity of the health service to look after the population. That's why the government (and the opposition) are pushing vaccinations and that's why they decide to re-introduce tougher restriction and/or lockdowns - that's nothing to do with your conspiracy theories however much you'd like to deflect the blame.....

The more people that get vaccinated and have boosters, the less justification there is for further restrictions to be imposed - it's a pretty simple equation that most folk can comprehend without needing it spelling out in words of one syllable.....

[Ram-Alf]

19 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I don't Have a clue, I'm 100% if favour of letting the scientists tell the Government what to do.

 

I can tell people what to do, Doesn't mean they're going to do what I say, We're now down to who's the most popular, The dimwit PM has had some astonishing bad press this last 2 weeks and rightly so, Wales and Scotland are going their own way, There'll be a lot of border crossing in the next couple of weeks, BJ doesn't want to p iss anymore of the English dwelling public off, I can't see him rubbishing Xmas...but I can see him calling the shots come the 27th Dec.

 

[Bob The Badger]

22 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It is not the scientists job to tell the government what to do. They should advise from a health perspective, but the government needs to make the tough decisions by looking at all factors. 

I'd rather a consensus of scientists tell Boris what he should do, just like somebody should tell him looking like a tramp isn't endearing.

IF the most eminent scientists cannot agree, then let the Government decide based on rock, paper, scissors or whatever else it is they use.

I understand scientists cannot literally make the decisions and everything they do is advisory, but I trust them a whole lot more than the people who do have the power.

8 minutes ago, maxjam said:

There are far more double vaccinated being hospitalized with covid than unvaccinated.

Furthermore Covid patients only constitute 5% of all ICU beds (approx 900ppl), with more than half of those being double vaccinated.

If the NHS can't cope with under 2.5% increase (less than 450 unvaccinated) at Christmas at a time when virtually no one is getting ill with regular flu (regularly 20k died pre-covid), maybe we should be questioning its funding and/or its operation.

 

Do you know how many NHS staff are off work because of Covid? I know anecdotally from my wife, it's a lot.

A 5% increase don't seem a lot (although I don't really know how that pans out, it's just a random figure to me because I'm not a scientist), but if that's coupled with 10% ill or isolating, then all of a sudden that's a lot more concerning.

Then you can add on top of that all the procedures they are trying to get in that didn't get in last winter and you can kinda see why people who work in the health sector are gravely concerned.

Literally every type of government left and right and scientists from every country (except maybe North Korea) on the planet are concerned, yet there's people who know nothing about the finer details saying they're all overreacting.

It would be like 50 mechanics telling me that my cars about to run out of oil but my mate Dave who's a fishmonger and hasn't checked the dipstick saying 'you'll be alright mate, trust me'

 

[maxjam]

1 minute ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I can tell people what to do, Doesn't mean they're going to do what I say, We're now down to who's the most popular, The dimwit PM has had some astonishing bad press this last 2 weeks and rightly so, Wales and Scotland are going their own way, There'll be a lot of border crossing in the next couple of weeks, BJ doesn't want to p iss anymore of the English dwelling public off, I can't see him rubbishing Xmas...but I can see him calling the shots come the 27th Dec.

Why though?

70% of people hospitalized with covid last year were aged 70+, this year 96% of the vulnerable age groups have already had their booster.

 

Furthermore, according to Sajid Javid suggested that Soth Africa aren't suffering from omnicron due to natural immunity acquired from catching Delta.

 

Now either the vaccines work, or they don't.  Either natural immunity works, or it doesn't.  Continuing to lockdown and hide from covid everytime there is a new mutation that 'looks a bit scary' as is the case of omnicron means this is now the new normal - being made to feel scared s41tless every winter and threatened with having our freedoms taken away.  Thats no way to live, I've done my bit and I've had enough.

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Why though?

70% of people hospitalized with covid last year were aged 70+, this year 96% of the vulnerable age groups have already had their booster.

 

Furthermore, according to Sajid Javid suggested that Soth Africa aren't suffering from omnicron due to natural immunity acquired from catching Delta.

 

Now either the vaccines work, or they don't.  Either natural immunity works, or it doesn't.  Continuing to lockdown and hide from covid everytime there is a new mutation that 'looks a bit scary' as is the case of omnicron means this is now the new normal - being made to feel scared s41tless every winter and threatened with having our freedoms taken away.  Thats no way to live, I've done my bit and I've had enough.

No other reason than both Scotland and Wales are "upping their game", Media pressure, Some scientists/medical personel arguing for more restrictions, Plus the PM, Javid, Raab saying nothing ruled out, It's a softening of the blow.

Just an opinion...nothing more ?

[Andicis]

9 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I'd rather a consensus of scientists tell Boris what he should do, just like somebody should tell him looking like a tramp isn't endearing.

IF the most eminent scientists cannot agree, then let the Government decide based on rock, paper, scissors or whatever else it is they use.

I understand scientists cannot literally make the decisions and everything they do is advisory, but I trust them a whole lot more than the people who do have the power.

The scientists aren't looking at the bigger picture. They're not looking at the economy, or as society as a whole, but a narrow sector of it. This country has a lot more to factor in that just covid.