v Millwall (A) - Match Thread

[kevinhectoring]

38 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Great to celebrate a rare victory but just to prove what a cruel world it is, within an hour of the final whistle I get a call to say my 88 year old mum with underlying health conditions is in hospital and tested positive for Covid. Sorry to ruin the celebrations but I needed to share. 

good luck  My Mum 85 and an asthmatic has just recovered and I hope you have the same

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

13 minutes ago, angieram said:

It's really great to be able to talk about a football match we have actually won tonight.

I realise that the booing of players taking the knee and subsequent debate about that is important too. There is a thread in the Jim Smith room where many are discussing just that. 

It would be nice if we could concentrate on the football in this thread. 

Agreed,there’s a thread totally devoted to this issue,let’s keep this one devoted to our victory,it was one to savour.

[jono]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What will get in their heads? Why should the majority be seen as wrong?

You need to get the principle of racial equality in to their core belief .. you don’t do it by compulsion - moral or otherwise.

What majority ? The majority of people who are anti racist anyway ?  .. it is the minority that need convincing. They might take the knee because the majority have convinced them they will suffer sanction if they don’t but their minds haven’t been changed. Roy, we are way off topic here and while this is a debate about racism I guess we should discuss it elsewhere ? 
 

[Uptherams]

Millwall fans seem to think they were hard done by. They booed the referee throughout. 

[Ken Tram]

5 hours ago, Patrick Rams said:

I bet they're out together tonight for a drinks to celebrate.Long may it continue.

I hope not.

[Ken Tram]

3 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

 

Was it just the Millwall players doing the knee thing, or was it a mix of some from both sides?

[Tombo]

Massively important win. Not just for our form but for the other reasons.

Glad to be in the news for sticking it to the racists, rather than the negative reasons we usually make the news.

Never fails to amaze me the kind of club Millwall still are.

[Stagtime]

8 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I would remind folk about the racism thread in the pub but unfortunately someone saw fit to delete it. I guess that clearly states the DCFC Fans Forum commitment, or should I say lack of it, to any open discourse on what is one the scourges of the game. For the most part, it was a fairly restrained debate so it's depressing an off-putting that these conversations can't be had in what is clearly euphemistically referred to as the 'Off Topic' room. Cake and eat it much? ?

Going forward mate do you think a specific BAME round could happen over there? We have one here and each team will have a special jersey done by a community member and they sell like hot cakes. All profits go back into indigenous community programs. The indigenous players really take it onboard doing school and community talks to get their point of view heard. Here’s one from my local club.

[Ken Tram]

3 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Not fully with you on this Jono. But the bigger problem is: having started it, how do they stop it ??? 

I am not sure I'd do it ...

But, perhaps, we need to keep doing it while racism continues within football?

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Stagtime said:

Going forward mate do you think a specific BAME round could happen over there? We have one here and each team will have a special jersey done by a community member and they sell like hot cakes. All profits go back into indigenous community programs. The indigenous players really take it onboard doing school and community talks to get their point of view heard. Here’s one from my local club.

I can't say really mate but I think it's a great idea. And how cool is that shirt! Way too smart to be using for footy ?

EDIT - @Punjabi_Rams what do you think guys? I really like the idea.

[RadioactiveWaste]

8 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

Was it just the Millwall players doing the knee thing, or was it a mix of some from both sides?

Players from all teams have been doing it this season. The odd exception is CKR who stands and gives the black power salute.

[NottsRam77]

6 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Think it’s quite fortunate how it drops to Knight, but I do agree the build up play was pretty good - especially the pass from Bielik which started the move. Ultimately it doesn’t matter how they go in when you’re in our position.

U make ur own luck ... we’re starting to get bodies into the box under Rooney ... it’s amazing how lucky some teams are that do these basics so well 

something cocu totally neglected to the point one would be forgiven if the players were actually being discouraged from getting into the box .. ok bit ott but there is some truth to it 

 

[Marriot Ram99]

4 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

I am not sure I'd do it ...

But, perhaps, we need to keep doing it while racism continues within football?

Unfortunately that will be decades maybe a century then. These views take generations and I mean generations to change completely. Always will be a vocal minority I think.  When my grandad was a lad apparently when the first black  families  came to stockton on tees where he was from round Middlesbrough, parents would close the curtains and hideaway the children like some aliens had arrived. It's good how far we have already came and that should be celebrated but I don't think too much change on a very short space of time like a matter of years works properly. 

[Millenniumram]

5 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

U make ur own luck ... we’re starting to get bodies into the box under Rooney ... it’s amazing how lucky some teams are that do these basics so well 

something cocu totally neglected to the point one would be forgiven if the players were actually being discouraged from getting into the box .. ok bit ott but there is some truth to it 

 

Agreed. My main criticism of Cocu was his negativity. I remember a couple of away games I went to last season, I was pretty sure I could see him actively telling the players not to press. The whole sitting back thing never sat right with me.

[Marriot Ram99]

53 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Agreed. My main criticism of Cocu was his negativity. I remember a couple of away games I went to last season, I was pretty sure I could see him actively telling the players not to press. The whole sitting back thing never sat right with me.

Nothing wrong with it in my eyes, just doesn't suit our players we don't have the pace or energy to suite counter attack football.  

Looking forward to seeing how we do when Ibe starts feel like we will have a decent attack soon. 

[Archied]

9 hours ago, jono said:

Mate, I am with you one that. No doubt whatsoever. The basic intent is as sound as a bell. The Millwall fan thing was repugnant. No equivocation from me on that. 
 

I just prefer CKR doing his thing which is real, from him, from the heart,  of huge value - and a direct reaction to what went on. 
The knee started well, as an immediate global reaction to the US police/ Floyd story and wider issues of casual racism  .. it had validity and justification. .. For me though it’s lost it now. it’s become a subservient gesture to a certain sort of politics and attitude that go way beyond a fight against racism and for equality. 

CKR’s stance and reaction gets my total support .. it’s the real thing, personal, heartfelt and right. 

I agree , the knee has been hijacked and or slurred by parts of the media and those with a racist agenda, I’m 60 years old and was 12 when my family started its journey to the multi cultural family it is today of different shades but full of love as we are family ( people forget that as humans we are all family) I know we have bame posters on here and wonder if many of them are part of mixed families with white members who get what I’m trying very poorly to put into words , I really hope we can find a gesture that replaces the knee and carries the most important part of its message forward which we don’t allow to be hijacked and devalued from the politicaly motivated and the racist 

on the Millwall thing I personally believe ( rightly or wrongly ) that a large part of those boo ing will have been racially motivated and somehow we need to find something or a way forward that is so positive in its message for ALL to unite that anyone booing it has nowhere to hide,

maybe I’m just a bit naive and I’m mixing that up with a magic wand but I bloody hope not ,we’ve come a long way let’s hope every further step forward is not turned into a pulling teeth battle 

[Archied]

9 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I respect your opinion buddy as we've discussed this before. All I can say is that as someone who is BAME myself, I love the sense that people care. When I was a kid I had it quite bad for quite an extended period of time. It was very hard to understand. As a grown up I have to say things have changed a lot. I suspect the fact that I'm a 16 stone lump now has something to do with that but I also genuinely believe that great strides have been made. I guess in the final analysis, we choose to see what we want, to an extent, but all I see is people of all creeds and colours coming together to say enough is enough and nothing more. I don't care one iota about any other motivations BLM may have other than to put a boot on the throat of racism and keep it there. 

Made me smile as we were laughing last season at a pic of myself and great nephew Jake at pride park, I’m pasty white dodery old boy ,Jake is mixed Jamaican background ,about 6 foot 5 and towering above me , he just about came up to my waist when we first went to a game?,, he looks after me now ?

[Lander]

33 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I'll answer this here because the thread in the Jim Smith room has gone. This will be my last post on the matter, as this whole issue has dragged me away from my usual state of being very laid back. Plus I sat down to do some work half an hour ago and I've done nothing but browse on here.

Your first point is fine. No issue with that whatsoever. I don't necessarily agree, but nobody can have a problem with an opinion on the effectiveness of the gesture.

The second I disagree with more strongly. Taking the knee at the football has never been about supporting violence, looting, Marxism, or any other 'twisted' ideology. It's just a simple gesture. I think this sums it up quite well:

Speak to Colin KR, Andre Wisdom and Duane Holmes. Speak to Mahlon Romeo. They'll tell you why we need to keep taking a stand. 

Have a look on the Millwall forums. That will show you why we need to keep taking a stand.

I can just about wrap my head around your second point, in that I can understand why you're saying it. I think the media have a lot to answer for, as well as the angry people who comment on Mail Online articles, for twisting the meaning of taking the knee. I get how it can be misrepresented.

I can accept that debating the value of the knee can come from a place of reason. But nobody, and I mean nobody, will ever convince me that booing the knee comes from anything other than a place of hatred.

I said it last night and I agree 100% on point 2, to think that it’s ineffective is perfectly understandable and I can see why people would say that now, but for hundreds of people to actively be against taking the knee so much so that they collectively plan ahead of a game that they’re going to boo, is nothing but hatred and these type of people are the reason we have to use platforms such as football to bring these issues to the forefront of everyone’s minds.

[BramcoteRam84]

People who boo it I believe are coming from a base of hatred. There are many more questioning it, either because they believe it’s politically motivated and they feel uncomfortable with our societal norms and cultures being challenged, but there are also those questioning it because nothing seems to be happening and therefore the protest is having no impact. I simply think the taking the knee is just highlighting that football, but also society has a problem with racism, diversity and inclusion that is deep rooted in how both sport and society is structured. As a result I support it. How you change it is challenging and a complete minefield to be honest. But it needs dialogue, it needs to always be in our consciousness and the protest does that.

Anyway - Football!!! 
 

Still not sure Rooney is the right man but he deserves credit for yesterday. His team selection and subs yesterday were spot on. All his selections were justified and he now has some selection headaches - Shinnie or Bird, Buchanan or Fozzy being a couple, Lawrence for the moment you cant see getting back in the team.

It also shows the fine margins because yesterday wasn’t much different to a lot of our performances this season. Bournemouth, Cardiff, Forest, Wycombe, Cov, Luton, Bristol all deserved more points than we got. While the last 3 games have not solved our problems they’ve also highlighted that it hasn’t always been as bad as our league position has suggested. It also says to me we have enough to get out of this. 

We were talking about being 9 or 12 points adrift potentially. We’re now 2 points adrift with 30 games remaining.

We will get out of this.

[G-Ram]

9 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Great to celebrate a rare victory but just to prove what a cruel world it is, within an hour of the final whistle I get a call to say my 88 year old mum with underlying health conditions is in hospital and tested positive for Covid. Sorry to ruin the celebrations but I needed to share. 

Hope shes ok pal & gets better must be worrying