v Millwall (A) - Match Thread

[Comrade 86]

32 minutes ago, jono said:

I don’t like tall people .. eh ? Why ?

So that's why you're always so mean to me ? I understand that racism is not a priority for some in the way it is for me. I'm not a fool and I can also see that some folk resent being what they perceive to be being coerced. I think some folk resent BLM because, setting aside other political notions. they demand folk make a stand. With us or not in other words.

Whether that is helpful or even beneficial to their cause is debatable but for those who've experienced the ugly side of the argument, it's not a tough call to make. For those who have not but still choose to show solidarity, I have nothing but admiration and gratitude.

We're now debating the validity of the physical expression of their message - to stand or kneel. I'd like to think the message matters more than the manner in which it is conveyed. Anyway, our in-house anti-bigotry expert has started a dedicated thread on this so he can explain racism to the likes of me and I've already lobbed a few grenades over the fence so I'll politely recuse myself from the debate. After all, we only went and won today!!

COYR

[jono]

45 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yes individual reactions are good, but what makes an impact is the overwhelming sight of everyone doing the same thing - hence 'taking a knee'.

Aye Roy, a good point but to change attitudes don’t you have to change minds not gain compliance to an edict ?  .. if universal knee taking means you have to take the knee or be branded as racist then you’ll take the knee in order to conform and avoid being damned.  Not because your attitude  has truly been changed. I just have sense that there are better ways of achieving a goal most of us are 100% behind. 

Just to be clear. I abhor racism, it turns my stomach. I cringe when I here the little Englanders with their twisted justifications about jobs and immigrants, all trying to hide what they really mean; which is ... you look different, talk different and I don’t like you because of that. It isn’t just nasty, it’s crass and mindless beyond measure. 

 

[Spanish]

18 minutes ago, Rev said:

Re the booing.

I thought it really odd neither Owen or Shaun referenced it, so wondered if I'd misheard?

 

Meltv has gone a bit establishment recently.  Criticism is avoided, controversy side stepped.  Early days they were a little more brave

[Tamworthram]

Great to celebrate a rare victory but just to prove what a cruel world it is, within an hour of the final whistle I get a call to say my 88 year old mum with underlying health conditions is in hospital and tested positive for Covid. Sorry to ruin the celebrations but I needed to share. 

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, angieram said:

I agree and thought Shinnie did the dirty work very well today, breaking up play early on and not allowing Millwall to build up a head of steam when they were fresh. He earned the right for Bird to come on and play some football.

Spot on Angie. I really like him as a player and he seems a good lad too, someone who will gee up the players when they need it, but support them too. Perhaps one of our resident stattos can work out whether or not we're harder to beat when he plays, but that's the visual impression I get, certainly over this troubled period anyway. I'd not start him in every game, but for the likes of Millwall, Boro, Preston and Cardiff, he'd be one of the first names on the team sheet for me. That much I think Rooney has got absolutely right.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, jono said:

if universal knee taking means you have to take the knee or be branded as racist then you’ll take the knee in order to conform and avoid being damned.  Not because your attitude  has truly been changed. I just have sense that there are better ways of achieving a goal most of us are 100% behind. 

And that would be? No 'disrespect' mate. But what's wrong with being behind 'taking a knee' and going from there. It's simple and powerful. We could all do the black power salute? Never gonna get 100% agreement, but arguing here about what?

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Great to celebrate a rare victory but just to prove what a cruel world it is, within an hour of the final whistle I get a call to say my 88 year old mum with underlying health conditions is in hospital and tested positive for Covid. Sorry to ruin the celebrations but I needed to share. 

So sorry to hear that mate. Must be extremely worrying for you. Not sure what to say other than I'll keep everything crossed that she pulls through ok. If you need to talk at any point then create a thread in the pub. Don't be nervous about it as there have been a good few similar topics and they've shown that there's loads of lovely folk on here who will offer you support and be there to listen mate. Best wishes buddy.

[jono]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

And that would be? No 'disrespect' mate. But what's wrong with being behind 'taking a knee' and going from there. It's simple and powerful. We could all do the black power salute? Never gonna get 100% agreement, but arguing here about what?

Nothing wrong with being behind taking the knee.
A lot wrong with the unspoken:  if you don’t take the knee or question it’s efficacy then you might be a racist 

[Nuwtfly]

10 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Great to celebrate a rare victory but just to prove what a cruel world it is, within an hour of the final whistle I get a call to say my 88 year old mum with underlying health conditions is in hospital and tested positive for Covid. Sorry to ruin the celebrations but I needed to share. 

Hope she pulls through, mate ??

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, jono said:

Nothing wrong with being behind taking the knee.
A lot wrong with the unspoken:  if you don’t take the knee or question it’s efficacy then you might be a racist 

Unspoken? Not so. It's all you hear when speaking about those who want an excuse for looking racist! Take the knee and then question it, is that so hard!

[Marriot Ram99]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Wow. Really? Nope not having that at all.

What do you disagree with? The whole thing or the Millwall are anti establishment? Look at all the news media and where it comes from and who reads it,  some fans will be racist no doubt about it but not all. Some might not like their local side told what to do if they see it as a power play, with the FA and the media as part of a power structure of an establishment saying who says what and who should be villainised. These fans shouldn't be villainised imo, some are racist of course but you can't tar everyone with the same brush because that's what gets people behaving even worse and getting angry. If someone was being clearly racist they should be taken straight out the ground though. 

 

 

 

 

 

[angieram]

It's really great to be able to talk about a football match we have actually won tonight.

I realise that the booing of players taking the knee and subsequent debate about that is important too. There is a thread in the Jim Smith room where many are discussing just that. 

It would be nice if we could concentrate on the football in this thread. 

[Rev]

26 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Meltv has gone a bit establishment recently.  Criticism is avoided, controversy side stepped.  Early days they were a little more brave

Don't say that sort of thing in public. 

Before you know it, you'll be invited on RamsTV to be a pundit.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

These fans shouldn't be villainised imo, some are racist of course but you can't tar everyone with the same brush because that's what gets people behaving even worse and getting angry. If someone was being clearly racist they should be taken straight out the ground though. 

They're so smart to be anti-establishment but not smart enough to see they'd be viewed as racist? Or perhaps they don't care?

[Rev]

Just now, angieram said:

It's really great to be able to talk about a football match we have actually won tonight.

I realise that the booing of players taking the knee and subsequent debate about that is important too. There is a thread in the Jim Smith room where many are discussing just that. 

It would be nice if we could concentrate on the football in this thread. 

Sorry @angieram, didn't see that thread before I posted.

Wasn't Knight great today?

A tough first half hour when he struggled to get involved, but grew into the game and ended up smashing home the winner.

I'd probably have welcomed his substitution at half time for Sibley, but yet again he's come up trumps.

The kid goes from strength to strength.

[WystonRam]

A very welcome three points.

[Marriot Ram99]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

They're so smart to be anti-establishment but not smart enough to see they'd be viewed as racist? Or perhaps they don't care?

Probably don't care, but it's hard to say because not every Millwall fan will be part of that group think some will just be typical football fans happy with just watching football. Not supporting something and booing doesnt really say why they disagree with it, personally would be interested to see some fans booing being interviewed and asked for their reasoning. 

[jono]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Unspoken? Not so. It's all you hear when speaking about those who want an excuse for looking racist! Take the knee and then question it, is that so hard!

So if you don’t take the knee then you are an apologist for racism ? Flawed argument Roy and you prove the point I was making. This is where it leads ... we might listen to you but first you have to comply. That won’t change minds Roy. It might force people to do something but you won’t get into their heads, quite the reverse. 

[IronRam 140.6]

5 hours ago, Andicis said:

I think that's pretty harsh. We didn't concede many chances in the second half, and whilst we weren't playing them off the park, our players battled and worked really hard and in my opinion shaded it and deserved the win. 

Agreed, depends on what you use as the datum point. Compare it to where we THINK we should be with this team and its still not great. Compare it to where we ARE as a team and its a huge.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, jono said:

That won’t change minds Roy. It might force people to do something but you won’t get into their heads, quite the reverse. 

What will get in their heads? Why should the majority be seen as wrong?