jono Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Maybe, but I’m not convinced he was putting the work in to keep himself fit either. If he can only play with a strike partner, then he’ll either have to go to Burnley or get a time machine back to 1980. There aren’t many sides who play with 2 up front anymore. What he did or does fitness wise is really guess work, speculation and maybe one comment way back about attitude. Who knows ? What I do know is what I saw on the pitch. He isn’t lazy, he is strong given his size, he does track back and his touch might not be PL but it is competitive at this level. .... Jack has 2 problems. Frailty injury wise and lack of a system that suits him. With 5 subs allowed he could be useful. With fire in his belly he’s an asset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Maybe, but I’m not convinced he was putting the work in to keep himself fit either. If he can only play with a strike partner, then he’ll either have to go to Burnley or get a time machine back to 1980. There aren’t many sides who play with 2 up front anymore. I just think it's unfair to judge his ability because he seems to have had some sort of injury continuously ever since he's been here. He's even said during his last injury it was agony every time he had a shot. You can play with 1 up front and not have the striker as a hold up player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Need to sack him off. Doesn’t seem to work in any modern formations, and I’m not about to be an advocate for a dinosaur 442. On top of that, he seems to lose all ability outside of the box. Struggles with all the basics. Reminds me of Space Jam when the Monstars stole the NBA talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, DCFClks said: I think that's a bit harsh. He's never been played in his preferred in a system he's suited to. I still think he could be a very good player if he could get over his injuries. actually he has once, leeds elland road and look how that turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, jono said: What he did or does fitness wise is really guess work, speculation and maybe one comment way back about attitude. Who knows ? It is speculation to an extent but Lampard made a couple very pointed comments at different points and their are his comments after the Leeds games and the fact that he could have started him against Villa but chose not to. For as much stick as Lampard got for that decision, it's not hard to get the impression that Lampard had lost faith in him. 19 minutes ago, jono said: He isn’t lazy, he is strong given his size, I'm not so sure about that either, defenders really don't have a huge amount of trouble competing with him physically. Personally thought it was stark early this season that defenders just didn't care about him and entirely focused on Sibley. Personally I think he is the kind of player that are common at this level. The ones that do well in league 1 and maybe have the hot flash in this league but ultimately haven't got enough to their game; not really that quick, not really that strong, not overly technical or skillful and honestly not that clinical. The only way I can see anyone getting any kind of form out of him is pairing him with a big lump and hoping for knock downs, even then I don't think it's a sure thing. Would much rather see Stretton be given a serious chance over bringing him back into the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 35 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Maybe, but I’m not convinced he was putting the work in to keep himself fit either. If he can only play with a strike partner, then he’ll either have to go to Burnley or get a time machine back to 1980. There aren’t many sides who play with 2 up front anymore. Doesn't have to be in a 2 up front. He just requires balls in behind for him to run onto rather than a hold up striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcidaho Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 There will be games that using Colin up front just doesn't work out, like often happened with Martin, where the opposition choke him out the game. Having Marriott, if not your regular starter, does give us an option to switch it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, brady1993 said: It is speculation to an extent but Lampard made a couple very pointed comments at different points and their are his comments after the Leeds games and the fact that he could have started him against Villa but chose not to. For as much stick as Lampard got for that decision, it's not hard to get the impression that Lampard had lost faith in him. I'm not so sure about that either, defenders really don't have a huge amount of trouble competing with him physically. Personally thought it was stark early this season that defenders just didn't care about him and entirely focused on Sibley. Personally I think he is the kind of player that are common at this level. The ones that do well in league 1 and maybe have the hot flash in this league but ultimately haven't got enough to their game; not really that quick, not really that strong, not overly technical or skillful and honestly not that clinical. The only way I can see anyone getting any kind of form out of him is pairing him with a big lump and hoping for knock downs, even then I don't think it's a sure thing. Would much rather see Stretton be given a serious chance over bringing him back into the fold. Couldn't disagree more . Three goals in little more than an hour and a half of playoff action and three goals in three against very decent premier league opposition. The difference between that Marriott and the one we saw last season and the first few this season was confident wingers and attacking midfielders creating space plus fitness. The goal he scored against Norwich was a beauty and very much to do with strength and he was very quick against Leeds for that first. Lest we forget those goals against Leeds with a few minutes left and Sheff Wedneday and Qpr from the tightest of angles that were very clinical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Couldn't disagree more . Three goals in little more than an hour and a half of playoff action and three goals in three against very decent premier league opposition. The difference between that Marriott and the one we saw last season and the first few this season was confident wingers and attacking midfielders creating space plus fitness. The goal he scored against Norwich was a beauty and very much to do with strength and he was very quick against Leeds for that first. Lest we forget those goals against Leeds with a few minutes left and Sheff Wedneday and Qpr from the tightest of angles that were very clinical. It's an extremely small sample most of which came in stretched games with an attacking midfielder behind him who was way above this level. You can pick out decent finishes for sure but when I say he's not clinical what I mean his conversion rate isn't that good. He takes a lot of shots for how many he scores. Sure he's not slow but he's not exactly lightning either. I think the fitness angle is somewhat overblown because he has gotten fit at times and still not really looked like pulling up trees. He's not showed anything close to reasonabley consistent form since a streak of games under Lampard where we had an extremely attacking talented attacking midfield and Waghorn acting as a psuedo-target man on the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Would be like a new signing IF we can get him fit and confident.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 hours ago, RammingStone66 said: 10 in 69 games Worse than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, jono said: What he did or does fitness wise is really guess work, speculation and maybe one comment way back about attitude. Who knows ? What I do know is what I saw on the pitch. He isn’t lazy, he is strong given his size, he does track back and his touch might not be PL but it is competitive at this level. .... Jack has 2 problems. Frailty injury wise and lack of a system that suits him. With 5 subs allowed he could be useful. With fire in his belly he’s an asset I think it’s a bit more than speculation and guesswork. Mick McCarthy is a manager well respected for getting 100% out of his players, and if he couldn’t get Marriott to put the work in, I’m not sure who can. More significantly, Lampard left him out the squad for a prolonged period I believe, whilst insisting he wasn’t injured - just wasn’t fit enough. There’s more than enough evidence to suggest his fitness isn’t where it should be, even if he does put the effort in when out on the pitch. You have to match that work rate in the training ground, or you get nowhere at this level of football. Fitness levels are so important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Is his contract up in the summer? Fits in quite nicely with all of the other players whom we paid handsomely for and will get sfa back in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted December 7, 2020 Author Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Srg said: Need to sack him off. Doesn’t seem to work in any modern formations, and I’m not about to be an advocate for a dinosaur 442. On top of that, he seems to lose all ability outside of the box. Struggles with all the basics. Reminds me of Space Jam when the Monstars stole the NBA talent. I think his playing style is very similar to Vardy. Marriott could/would be a great player if deployed in the right role and prepared to work his arse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, DCFClks said: I just think it's unfair to judge his ability because he seems to have had some sort of injury continuously ever since he's been here. He's even said during his last injury it was agony every time he had a shot. You can play with 1 up front and not have the striker as a hold up player. I agree he’s probably been unlucky with injuries, but I just don’t see enough in him to think he’d make an impact here, even fully fit. As for not needing a hold up man when playing one up front, I couldn’t disagree more. It’s absolutely vital to any single striker system that the one man up front can link play up. You can see that evidenced even in our current season. As soon as Kazim comes into the side, we instantly start scoring at least some goals from open play. Think we only had one before he made his first start, we’ve got one in every game he’s started. That’s no coincidence. And Kazim isn’t even a particularly great player, just any sort of hold up man is better than the likes of Marriott imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 57 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: Doesn't have to be in a 2 up front. He just requires balls in behind for him to run onto rather than a hold up striker This is exactly the problem though. It’s not enough to only be effective when running onto through balls. It might be in the lower leagues where he’s had success before, but not in the Championship. Not anymore. You’ve got to be able to link play up, hold onto the ball etc. Marriott can’t do that well enough, and that’s why he’ll only ever have real success in League One and below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: I think it’s a bit more than speculation and guesswork. Mick McCarthy is a manager well respected for getting 100% out of his players, and if he couldn’t get Marriott to put the work in, I’m not sure who can. More significantly, Lampard left him out the squad for a prolonged period I believe, whilst insisting he wasn’t injured - just wasn’t fit enough. There’s more than enough evidence to suggest his fitness isn’t where it should be, even if he does put the effort in when out on the pitch. You have to ,ATC that work rate in the training ground, or you get nowhere at this level of football. Fitness levels are so important. I can’t really guess either way but remain convinced he ha a groin injury that wa persistently niggling. Chronic maybe and in the end limiting to what he can ever offer but no doubt in my mind that Jacks attitude on match day was totally ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: And Kazim isn’t even a particularly great player, just any sort of hold up man is better than the likes of Marriott imho. Different sort of player though. Although I agree with earlier comments that not many teams play with a pair up front, some do (e.g. Southampton, Spurs, Burnley), it doesn't have to be like that. I'd like to see CKR and Marriott together. For a brief moment, we had Martin and Marriott together and it was looking good (?♂️ I mentioned Martin, that's this thread over). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, jono said: I can’t really guess either way but remain convinced he ha a groin injury that wa persistently niggling. Chronic maybe and in the end limiting to what he can ever offer but no doubt in my mind that Jacks attitude on match day was totally ok I agree with you that he always seemed to give 100% on the pitch. It’s easier to motivate yourself on match day though. It’s on the training ground where managers have criticised him. I mean, I’m not medical expert, but my inclination would be that if you don’t put the effort in during conditioning work on the training pitch, you’re more likely to pick up muscle injuries on match day. I wonder whether that could be a contributing factor to Marriott’s injury struggles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, IslandExile said: Different sort of player though. Although I agree with earlier comments that not many teams play with a pair up front, some do (e.g. Southampton, Spurs, Burnley), it doesn't have to be like that. I'd like to see CKR and Marriott together. For a brief moment, we had Martin and Marriott together and it was looking good (?♂️ I mentioned Martin, that's this thread over). Who do you drop to shoehorn Marriott in? There is little to no justifiable reason for us to change our whole formation (because that's what we would have to do) to make space for a player with a below par scoring record at this level and one good season at league one level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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