Jack Marriott returns to Derby, then goes back to Wednesday

[Millenniumram]

9 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

Different sort of player though.

Although I agree with earlier comments that not many teams play with a pair up front, some do (e.g. Southampton, Spurs, Burnley), it doesn't have to be like that.

I'd like to see CKR and Marriott together.

For a brief moment, we had Martin and Marriott together and it was looking good (?‍♂️ I mentioned Martin, that's this thread over).

Yeah I get that, my point was a player like Marriott can’t replace a play like Kazim. FWIW I agree you can play two up top effectively, but it’s not likely to be pretty. I wouldn’t want to change style like that to accommodate a player like Marriott, who I still don’t think would be particularly effective. His finishing record makes Waghorn look like Lewandowski.

[Dimmu]

2 hours ago, RammingStone66 said:

10 in 69 games

 

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

how many of those 69 games were just sub appearances though?

SW 20/21 Championship 7 games, 319 mins. 0 Goals, 0 Assists

Derby 20/21 Championship 4 games, 201 mins. 1 G, 0 A

Derby 19/20 Championship 32 games, 1123mins. 2 G, 0 A

Derby 18/19 Championship Play-Offs 3 games, 99 mins. 3 G, 0 A

Derby 18/19 Championship 33 games, 1860 mins. 7 G, 5 A

 

That makes it 13 goals and 5 assists in 3602 minutes which is a bit over 40 games. So, it means one goal contribution in every 2,2 games which is not bad. Worrying thing is that he has not produced much after the playoffs. 

I'm surprised his stats are so good, I wasn't expecting it.

[IslandExile]

10 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Who do you drop to shoehorn Marriott in? There is little to no justifiable reason for us to change our whole formation (because that's what we would have to do) to make space for a player with a below par scoring record at this level and one good season at league one level. 

 

8 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Yeah I get that, my point was a player like Marriott can’t replace a play like Kazim. FWIW I agree you can play two up top effectively, but it’s not likely to be pretty. I wouldn’t want to change style like that to accommodate a player like Marriott, who I still don’t think would be particularly effective. His finishing record makes Waghorn look like Lewandowski.

Yeah I agree. I wouldn't like to leave anyone out but it's an option, especially with 5 subs.

Maybe until Stretton and Duncan are ready.

[Millenniumram]

3 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

 

Yeah I agree. I wouldn't like to leave anyone out but it's an option, especially with 5 subs.

Maybe until Stretton and Duncan are ready.

Yeah that was my original point. If we genuinely are unable to sign anyone in January, he’s probably a sub option than what we have at the moment - which is nothing.

[Chris_Martin]

18 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

 

SW 20/21 Championship 7 games, 319 mins. 0 Goals, 0 Assists

Derby 20/21 Championship 4 games, 201 mins. 1 G, 0 A

Derby 19/20 Championship 32 games, 1123mins. 2 G, 0 A

Derby 18/19 Championship Play-Offs 3 games, 99 mins. 3 G, 0 A

Derby 18/19 Championship 33 games, 1860 mins. 7 G, 5 A

 

That makes it 13 goals and 5 assists in 3602 minutes which is a bit over 40 games. So, it means one goal contribution in every 2,2 games which is not bad. Worrying thing is that he has not produced much after the playoffs. 

I'm surprised his stats are so good, I wasn't expecting it.

Which could easily be put down to injuries or the change in management.  I really don't think he's as bad as some people are making him out to be. When he's up to speed, the best finisher we have at the club by a mile. 

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Which could easily be put down to injuries or the change in management.  I really don't think he's as bad as some people are making him out to be. When he's up to speed, the best finisher we have at the club by a mile. 

Rubbish. He is so far from a natural finisher it's not even funny. Even at Peterborough, he scored because they created a lot, he was not clinical. Never has been here, either. ''Our best finisher'' shouldn't need 5 easy chances to score a goal.

[Chris_Martin]

9 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Rubbish. He is so far from a natural finisher it's not even funny. Even at Peterborough, he scored because they created a lot, he was not clinical. Never has been here, either. ''Our best finisher'' shouldn't need 5 easy chances to score a goal.

Are you forgetting most of his goals under Lampard?

[DCFC Kicks]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

I agree he’s probably been unlucky with injuries, but I just don’t see enough in him to think he’d make an impact here, even fully fit. As for not needing a hold up man when playing one up front, I couldn’t disagree more. It’s absolutely vital to any single striker system that the one man up front can link play up. You can see that evidenced even in our current season. As soon as Kazim comes into the side, we instantly start scoring at least some goals from open play. Think we only had one before he made his first start, we’ve got one in every game he’s started. That’s no coincidence. And Kazim isn’t even a particularly great player, just any sort of hold up man is better than the likes of Marriott imho.

I agree the way we play we definitely need a hold up striker. I'm not sure why Lampard bought Marriott because he didn't fit they style then as well. There are teams who play 1 up top that isn't a hold up player. Blackburn play Armstrong who is a very similar player to Marriott. I'd probably sell him if an offer came in, but if we can't then I still think he could be a useful player. He's a better finisher than anyone we have in the squad. If chances fall to him he's likely to score. 

[Andicis]

8 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Are you forgetting most of his goals under Lampard?

No, he didn't score many. People just think of that one Leeds game.

[RamNut]

Just now, Andicis said:

No, he didn't score many. People just think of that one Leeds game.

Leeds, Villa, Norwich, sheff Utd, Man Utd, Chelsea, West Brom.....

scored in all the big games.

[IslandExile]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

No, he didn't score many. People just think of that one Leeds game.

That Leeds game alone is enough to make him a legend ?

[Millenniumram]

4 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

I agree the way we play we definitely need a hold up striker. I'm not sure why Lampard bought Marriott because he didn't fit they style then as well. There are teams who play 1 up top that isn't a hold up player. Blackburn play Armstrong who is a very similar player to Marriott. I'd probably sell him if an offer came in, but if we can't then I still think he could be a useful player. He's a better finisher than anyone we have in the squad. If chances fall to him he's likely to score. 

Agree that it was a weird signing by Lampard, especially since it did seem like it was his decision to sign him. Seemed a risk worth taking on paper, given his goal scoring record in lower divisions and his age, but it definitely hasn’t worked out. Have to question whether we properly did our homework on his style of play, and whether he suited what we needed.

Disgaree on his finishing ability though. He definitely isn’t a good goalscorer at this level, the stats show that, other than the odd purple patch. Think someone had some numbers that showed he was the least clinical in our squad by a mile last season, 3/4 times worse than Waghorn. I can certainly remember him missing some golden chances, which a decent Championship striker would bury. Would also say that based on what I’ve seen of Armstrong, whilst he might not be a hold up man by trade, he’s much stronger than Marriott, and better at the link up play I mentioned.

[Andicis]

6 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Leeds, Villa, Norwich, sheff Utd, Man Utd, Chelsea, West Brom.....

scored in all the big games.

7 Championship goals. Not good enough, and that's a good season for him at this level.

 

4 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

That Leeds game alone is enough to make him a legend ?

?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

26 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Rubbish. He is so far from a natural finisher it's not even funny. Even at Peterborough, he scored because they created a lot, he was not clinical. Never has been here, either. ''Our best finisher'' shouldn't need 5 easy chances to score a goal.

Are you seriously saying there's not a clinical or natural finish in that lot, at least five were chances where he beat the defender to the ball standing right on his shoulder.  

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Are you seriously saying there's not a clinical or natural finish in that lot, at least five were chances where he beat the defender to the ball standing right on his shoulder.  

Yes. He's done some good finishes at times, doesn't make him a natural finisher. I saw Harry Winks score from the half way line, doesn't make him good at long shots. Marriott has bad goal scoring records in all but one season.

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, Andicis said:

Should be looking to sell him when he's fit IMO, he's never going to make it here. 

He needs to play (and score) if we're to sell him. At the moment, no-one in their right mind would pay more than £1m for him. We have 6 months to get something from him, otherwise he'll end up leaving for nothing 12 months later

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He needs to play (and score) if we're to sell him. At the moment, no-one in their right mind would pay more than £1m for him. We have 6 months to get something from him, otherwise he'll end up leaving for nothing 12 months later

We should recoup what we can and get him off the wage bill. 

[Chris_Martin]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

No, he didn't score many. People just think of that one Leeds game.

really?

v Man Utd, right place right time heads it in.

v QPR, great first time shot

v Sheff Utd first time volley

v West Brom first time finish

v Chelsea  One touch and finish

v Birmingham One touch and finish

v Sheff Wed One touch and finish

v Wigan First time header right in corner

v Norwich Lifts it over keeper

v Southampton First time volley

v Leeds 2 goals we all remember. 2nd one great finish.

v Villa play off final One touch and finish

 

I would argue the exact opposite and say that he is absolutely the best finisher at the club. Name someone who is better? Nearly all the players we have are not good finishers. 

 

[uttoxram75]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

I'd like to see CKR and Marriott together.

This.

Jack would score 20 goals a season playing off CKR (if injury free).

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Are you seriously saying there's not a clinical or natural finish in that lot, at least five were chances where he beat the defender to the ball standing right on his shoulder.  

Marriott is a good striker of the ball, and gets a high proportion of his shots on target. However, when confident, he's the sort to take early shots from anywhere within sight of goal. The positions he's shooting from would have low xG scores, but as he takes enough of those shots on, he scores regularly enough.

The problem, in my view, is that he's low on confidence, resulting in extra touches and loosing his good opportunities to shoot.

You have a much higher chance of scoring with your first touch than with a second (or more) as it catches the keeper out who can't reposition himself for the shot. For example, Waghorn and Martin both scored quite a few goals last season with their first touch.