Back Cocu

[Marriot Ram99]

6 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

The underlying problem is that we have a significantly weaker squad than what we've had over recent seasons. Seriously, just look right the way through it. And that's Mel's responsibility, it's his job to keep the first team competitive and supply the manager with players. He has run out of money and hence changed the remit to 'let's bring through academy players.'

Lampards team had two senior players in every position. And then we had the likes of injured Davies and Forsyth on top of that. Then you have the academy players on the side.

This team we have currently has too much inexperience in it. Davies and Forsyth are not going to get you out this league any more. Big question marks over the likes of Ibe and Te Wierik. Evans not good enough. Seriously where are the good players? 

The team should be doing a lot better than it is, well clear of the bottom three and I think a new manager will do that for us. But this team is just not good enough for where Derby needs to be because of this regime Mel has put in place. He should have sold up after the playoff final, that was the time for fresh ideas.

 

I agree, Mel Morris has been a complete failure. Gave a load of money to inept managers allowed players like Hughes and Bogle to be sold for god knows what and we have got to the point where we are spending less than we are getting in from transfers because we have been that poorly ran that we need funds to avoid being completely skint and breaking all the FFP rules. Because of that Richards who hasn't even been played much so isn't rated by Cocu has been signed as our replacement for Martin.

[BondJovi]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Who do you think should create the winning mentality? We gone through various managers and numerous players, only Mel is the same.

Well. The whole club ethos comes from Mel.

[Rammy03]

3 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

The only thing I am worried about is the potential to get another Cocu type in, without the right appointment we will finish rock bottom. 

Absolutely. If we appoint the wrong manager and allow them to spend a load on money on the wrong players and it doesn't improve and then sack him and bring in another manager, we could be in a lot of trouble. 

I think we need to think very carefully about what we do over the next two weeks. This season can be salvaged very easily, but only with the right decisions. Get a manager in, even if it's short term, who knows what they're doing in England and can inspire the players. 

While the seasons not over, I don't think we'll be getting into the top 6 this season barring something miraculous. While the club is in takeover and the team bottom of the league, there could be whole load of problems created. First and foremost we need to steady the ship.

[G-Ram]

The culture of the football club is completely wrong & that comes from the top & from Morris. 

A positive manager can inject some positivity into the squad. Lampard got buy in from the players & got by on having a togetherness. Cocu might be a gent but he's totally uninspiring. With Mac the videos of training looked fun, players had a smile in their face. 

Rosenior gave an honest interview yesterday & i respect that. But come on he looked beat feeling sorry for himself, the fans, the players. I don't blame him he's emotional about it right after defeat. I like he took responsibility. But he's supposed to be there to pick the players up. No matter how bad it is come out fighting. Say it Wasn't good enough, we'll be back after the break to win etc. You cant go round with with a sorry attitude. Its the managers & coaching staffs job to lift the players & lift the mood 

[ziggyram59]

I can't believe I'm reading these keep faith with Cocu fans, jesus can't you see the man is a FAILURE he doesn't know what attacking football is, if you want league 1 football then by all means back him. makes me really angry as a passionate Derby fan who cares for my club that people still want this rubbish manager. 

[Ambitious]

I genuinely think this is the strongest squad we've had since 14/15 which makes our position in the table even more sickening. It's also another reason why I can't defend Cocu. You can look at the strikers and say we're lacking, perhaps you're right, but you can current international starters on the wings playing as inverted forwards. Waghorn has been consistent in this division throughout his whole career. The depth is a problem, not addressed, but we also have the highest scoring forward in the highest level of academy football not even making the squad. 

The quality of this team, edit: the players within the team, is more than good enough. 

[Rammy03]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

I genuinely think this is the strongest squad we've had since 14/15 which makes our position in the table even more sickening.

Nonsense, in what way is this squad better than lampards? 

18/19: Carson, Roos, Wisdom, Bogle, Keogh, Tomori, Ambrose, Malone, Cole, Huddlestone, Johnson, Mount, Holmes, Bryson, Evans, Wilson, Lawrence, Marriott, Waghorn, Bennett, Nugent

And that's without the injured Forsyth and Davies and then you have the academy players on the side of it.

20/21: Marshall, Roos, Wisdom, Byrne, Davies, Clarke, Te Wierik, Forsyth, Buchanan, Bielik, Shinnie, Rooney, Holmes, Evans, Knight, Bird, Sibley, Lawrence, Jozwiak, Ibe, Waghorn, Kazim, Whittaker

That's literally all we've got. If anyone gets injured we're screwed as we only have academy players to replace them. We are lightyears away from the playoff final team.

[GboroRam]

8 minutes ago, ziggyram59 said:

I can't believe I'm reading these keep faith with Cocu fans, jesus can't you see the man is a FAILURE he doesn't know what attacking football is, if you want league 1 football then by all means back him. makes me really angry as a passionate Derby fan who cares for my club that people still want this rubbish manager. 

I count 3 posts in the last couple of weeks in support of the manager. I count a lot more think it's time for change. 

I don't see the need for the vitriol. It's not working, clearly. No need to be so vocal. He's clearly a good manager in a different environment. For whatever reason, it's not working for us. 

Thank him for his time and his efforts, we'll I'm sure come good with the team we've now got - but not with Cocu at the helm, I'm afraid.

[Rammy03]

12 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

You cant go round with with a sorry attitude. Its the managers & coaching staffs job to lift the players & lift the mood 

This whole regime we have currently is too overthought and overcoached. The coaching staff don't have enough grit, they all talk a good game but can't do the job. They're a bunch of good guys and that's how we play on the field.

[Marriot Ram99]

11 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I genuinely think this is the strongest squad we've had since 14/15 which makes our position in the table even more sickening. It's also another reason why I can't defend Cocu. You can look at the strikers and say we're lacking, perhaps you're right, but you can current international starters on the wings playing as inverted forwards. Waghorn has been consistent in this division throughout his whole career. The depth is a problem, not addressed, but we also have the highest scoring forward in the highest level of academy football not even making the squad. 

The quality of this team, edit: the players within the team, is more than good enough. 

I completely disagree Ambitious, whilst we are not a bad team (around top 10 quality) the team we had under Rowett and Lampard was quite abit better. Our defence is very average without Keogh and a decent left back,  our midfield is OK but lacks a technician similar to Hughes as imo Bird is overrated despite being OK as a championship midtable player,  attack is our weakness we would be decent if we still had Martin or an inform Marriott with decent service but Waghorn is simply not good enough for anything more than midtable and we lack any proper alternatives. Striker with GK is the most important position when you play a loan striker formation and we are lacking quality in that area, I really hope we buy a quality striker in January baalocks to the cost because it will cost alot more if we go down. 

 

[Rammy03]

2 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

He's clearly a good manager in a different environment. For whatever reason, it's not working for us. 

He's a good manager when it's all set up for him where he has authority like in Holland. He failed abysmally in Turkey and he's doing the exact same thing here.

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

I’m still in?, getting rid of Cocu is a short term fix to a long term problem. Been there, done that 

Really admire yours & @Inverurie Ram stance, even if I personally see no way back now.

Whats the key to turning around results in your opinion?

[Jimbo Ram]

25 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I genuinely think this is the strongest squad we've had since 14/15 which makes our position in the table even more sickening. It's also another reason why I can't defend Cocu. You can look at the strikers and say we're lacking, perhaps you're right, but you can current international starters on the wings playing as inverted forwards. Waghorn has been consistent in this division throughout his whole career. The depth is a problem, not addressed, but we also have the highest scoring forward in the highest level of academy football not even making the squad. 

The quality of this team, edit: the players within the team, is more than good enough. 

Think central defence and lack of striker options are both big problems....it is really difficult to be certain how good the squad is. I don’t think we are top 6 or bottom 6 if I had to guess.

[Jimbo Ram]

2 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I’m still in?, getting rid of Cocu is a short term fix to a long term problem. Been there, done that 

I had been until yesterday. Are you prepared for us to go down to League 1 as part of the fix ?

[Gringo]

The cocu  in crowd have a lot of similarities with the Trump supporters over here, I suppose our league position is a fake league table.

the man has failed get over it.

[Tyler Durden]

56 minutes ago, ziggyram59 said:

I can't believe I'm reading these keep faith with Cocu fans, jesus can't you see the man is a FAILURE he doesn't know what attacking football is, if you want league 1 football then by all means back him. makes me really angry as a passionate Derby fan who cares for my club that people still want this rubbish manager. 

I think we're at the point now where personal recriminations are pointless, the consensus now is that the job is too big for him or it didn't work out or the timing was wrong or whatever euphemism you would like to spin and we need to move on.

Best to leave it like that and hopefully the club and Cocu can find a mutually agreeable solution to this. 

[Alph]

2 hours ago, Curtains said:

How do you get around FFP if you sack him. 

I agree he has to go.  

For me the players need to look at themselves also. 

They have no pride IMO 

No idea, I'm not really into the financial side of things. I don't know what Derby have or can and can't do. Don't imagine relegation will be good for the bank 

Definitely. I think they must be going through the motions now. But I've always thought most the players are overrated with people claiming they're a top 6 squad. I don't see it. The Lampard squad was barely top 6 and that included Keogh, Mount, Wilson, Tomori etc. We haven't got better

But ultimately we have 10 players that stand level or behind the ball offering support. That is surely tactical. No wonder we never score. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I’m still in?, getting rid of Cocu is a short term fix to a long term problem. Been there, done that 

We had a similar discussion on the zoom call...me, @Monty, @sage, @Curtainsand @DarkFruitsRam7. 

It feels like we once again find ourselves conflicted. The better managers who deal with crises are those you wouldn't want for the long term but won't come just for a season eg allardyce.

We all wanted "the project " but it seems Cocus brains are frazzled and he cannot get the best out of the players.  He seemed to for a while, and we were improving, but its all gone to chaos recently. 

So who can we possibly get who would command respect and instil that slight streak of authoritarianism that Cocu’s team seems to lack. Who could organise us quickly and get everyone pulling together without being solely a "pragmatic" manager?

The best name we could come up with was Ralf Rangnick. 

[GboroRam]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

No idea, I'm not really into the financial side of things. I don't know what Derby have or can and can't do. Don't imagine relegation will be good for the bank 

Definitely. I think they must be going through the motions now. But I've always thought most the players are overrated with people claiming they're a top 6 squad. I don't see it. The Lampard squad was barely top 6 and that included Keogh, Mount, Wilson, Tomori etc. We haven't got better

But ultimately we have 10 players that stand level or behind the ball offering support. That is surely tactical. No wonder we never score. 

And the 11th is Waghorn in front of everyone (offside)

[Curtains]

14 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

We had a similar discussion on the zoom call...me, @Monty, @sage, @Curtainsand @DarkFruitsRam7. 

It feels like we once again find ourselves conflicted. The better managers who deal with crises are those you wouldn't want for the long term but won't come just for a season eg allardyce.

We all wanted "the project " but it seems Cocus brains are frazzled and he cannot get the best out of the players.  He seemed to for a while, and we were improving, but its all gone to chaos recently. 

So who can we possibly get who would command respect and instil that slight streak of authoritarianism that Cocu’s team seems to lack. Who could organise us quickly and get everyone pulling together without being solely a "pragmatic" manager?

The best name we could come up with was Ralf Rangnick. 

Sage is probably right about Ralph but could we afford him. 

Someone suggested Bowyer in house as the cheapest option. 
 

Allyardyce won’t be cheap either but could obviously do a job but comes with baggage.and style of Football issues as does Pulis