Waiting to click

[Brammie Steve]

10 minutes ago, Spanish said:

honest question, why?  What have you seen that makes it likely that with a following wind he could  take us up?  You don't need to answer really all I am saying is that I have not seen anything to make me fervently believe he is the one to do it.

I'm not talking of us going up this season, I just can't see how changing a manager could improve matters when it would entail yet another massive upheaval without which we could well do!

Most of our recent brick walls have not been constructed by Mr Cocu and would have tried the skills of the late lamented Brian Clough!

Sometimes we hit the ground running....sometimes we just hit the ground!

[Spanish]

Just now, Marriott Ram99 said:

I'd think that if we are struggling and less people renew as a result + we could go down that cost would cancel itself out with the right appointment. 

I'm actually in the doubters camp.  He must be close to thinking that he is out of his depth if he has any honour he may already be considering resigning.  Florest game may be the last straw, but we are both so bad we may be the first teams to get 0 points in a game against each other

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Spanish said:

for me the additional big reason is the cost of getting him and his team to leave.  It wont be insignificant at a time when we appear to be short of P&S cash

After he sold Bogle & Lowe, surely that'd provide him enough to 'hang himself'? ? ?

[ramsbottom]

2 hours ago, Jubbs said:

Brentford had 4 points after 5 games yet finished 3rd.

Brentford have better players than we do, and have a system that their players are comfortable with...

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Brummie Steve said:

I'm not talking of us going up this season, I just can't see how changing a manager could improve matters when it would entail yet another massive upheaval without which we could well do!

Every manager/season we've seem to say it's transitional, and then we've mostly pulled 'something' out of the fire. You've either got it or you ain't! 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

11 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

2. We need stability - As said by Andicis you don't need stability for success look at Watford and for that matter look at Reading, in 3 games their new  manager has probably done more for them than Cocoa has done in 50+ games. 

Judging the Reading manager off the back of just three league games is absolutely ludicrous. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Judging the Reading manager off the back of just three league games is absolutely ludicrous. 

We're just jealous. ?

[Marriot Ram99]

Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Judging the Reading manager off the back of just three league games is absolutely ludicrous. 

It's premature but he has made an immediate impact and they are playing much better than we are even though Cocu has had a lot longer in charge. We got absolutely schooled by Reading when he had been in charge for about a week. 

[Rampage]

8 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

It's premature but he has made an immediate impact and they are playing much better than we are even though Cocu has had a lot longer in charge. We got absolutely schooled by Reading when he had been in charge for about a week. 

Martin took 3 seconds to transition to Brizzie because they signed a player who plays like Chris Martin and let him play that way.

[Jubbs]

12 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Brentford have better players than we do, and have a system that their players are comfortable with...

It's quite comparable actually. 

Thomas was going into his second season after taking over from Dean Smith. They started with 6/11 players for their first game that played in their last fixture of 18/19.

Cocu going into his second season. 4/11 players started against Reading that started against Birmingham last game of the season.

[Rampage]

35 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

We're just jealous. ?

We are.

[Ramos]

3 hours ago, Van Rammeister said:

I agree.

The problem that I have with all this is that if we had Bielsa or any other of a number of managers we would be doing better. It would be great to see Cocu do his nut on the sideline for example, when we ship another soft goal. I can’t see Bielsa just standing there accepting what is being served up currently.

That’s said, it would also be good to see Rooney do similar on the pitch (like when he berated Marriott last season) and generate some passion, but maybe he feels he can’t due the fact it could be considered a bit hypocritical when he has been poor.

I want Cocu to succeed, but I think after 15 or so games is the time to judge where we are really at.

 

I guess it’s all context after that. I usually give 10 games or 15, but looking at the next 6 fixtures I really worry we may come out of the first 9 games with less than 4 points on the board and then I think most people would find it hard to make an argument for him to stay. I want him to succeed, but I fear for him at this moment - I really think he should put davies in for experience and organisation at the back - at least for a couple of games. 

[europia]

8 hours ago, Taribo said:

Well well well, has everyone calmed down now after Saturday? Shocking 15 minutes and a shocker of a season start overall, HOWEVER, there’s a few positives to come back to after the international break (FYI I’ve written the Norwich game off):

Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielik to come back from injury.

Ibe & Duncan to get match fit.

Jozwiak and MTW to get fully up to speed with the team.

Marriott & Holmes to refind their sharpness.

New striker. 

We’ll be reet 

I hope so. I think there is still a big question mark over the Cocu possession based football ideology. Is it ever going to be successful in the championship? I was really pleased with Cocu coming to Derby. He's a decent manager all right, but maybe better in european leagues or even the PL. Managers like Warnock make it seem simple are generally successful at this level. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Every supporter wants him to succeed...I love the concept of playing out from the back,possession football....and before anyone says that it can't work in the championship with average players,just look back (again!) to 2014/16 when we did just that...it was,on the whole,sublime,so there's no reason it can't be repeated by us today.

It's just not happening though,Cocu can't seem to seem to get his concepts to translate from the training ground into the pitch.

It looks like,at the moment,that Mel has the patience to wait for it too click with the return to a full squad so we are all in the same boat.

I desperately want him to be the real deal,it should be beautiful but it's so far from that at the moment that I'm left in that sceptical boat wondering if I can actually see the promised land out there in the future or whether it's another false oasis  tempting us with false promises.

Only time will tell.

[Jayram]

20 hours ago, Taribo said:

Well well well, has everyone calmed down now after Saturday? Shocking 15 minutes and a shocker of a season start overall, HOWEVER, there’s a few positives to come back to after the international break (FYI I’ve written the Norwich game off):

Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielik to come back from injury.

Ibe & Duncan to get match fit.

Jozwiak and MTW to get fully up to speed with the team.

Marriott & Holmes to refind their sharpness.

New striker. 

We’ll be reet 

This belief that the likes of Waggy, Lawrence and Bielik are the key to our situation turning round is not based in reality. All of them played for Cocu last season without pulling up any trees on occasion. He has to get much more out of the players he has now, like good managers do. Those three coming back in will then be the icing on the cake, not the salvation of our season people seem to think they will be.

[CBRammette]

20 hours ago, Taribo said:

Well well well, has everyone calmed down now after Saturday? Shocking 15 minutes and a shocker of a season start overall, HOWEVER, there’s a few positives to come back to after the international break (FYI I’ve written the Norwich game off):

Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielik to come back from injury.

Ibe & Duncan to get match fit.

Jozwiak and MTW to get fully up to speed with the team.

Marriott & Holmes to refind their sharpness.

New striker. 

We’ll be reet 

As we get to Tuesday this is the most sensible post so far since Saturday

[BramcoteRam84]

Can’t judge after 3 games. Brentford had a bad start last season. Remember when we had one of the best starts in our history under Clough? Think we won 6 out of first 8 games and won the first 4, we finished miles away from the top 6 points wise, think we ended up 12th. As for those pointing at Stoke and how a bad start can lead to you being down there all season, look at Derby last season. Bottom 6 at Christmas!! Ended up almost threatening the playoffs. 
 

It’s not the time to panic after 3 games. It is recoverable and we have shown already under Cocu that we can react positively to adversity and bad defeats. Many have heralded the transfer window and reckon this could be our most balanced strongest team for a while when everyone is fit and new players have gelled. Should give it a few games to see if this starts to come to fruition before taking the call to spend millions in pay off packages to Cocu and his coaching staff. 

Losing the first 3 games increases the pressure, realistically can’t see us getting much if anything from the next two, even then I wouldn’t twist, but then the Huddersfield and Forest games will be massive, don’t win either of them, there could be problems for Cocu.

No one is under any illusions here. Right now is nowhere near good enough and it has to improve and relatively quickly, otherwise whether you want it or not, Mel will probably make the call and get rid.

[BaaLocks]

19 hours ago, Van Rammeister said:

If we’d lost 3 games in a row mid season and were sat in say, 10th place, would the calls for Cocu’s head be as loud as they are currently?

I don’t believe so.

Yup, like the quote "if a surgeon loses (nice way of saying kills) a patient after working for twenty years people understand, if a student loses one in their first operation they never work again"

Similar stat I heard was the increase in likelihood of you making it as a professional footballer if your team won on their debut (I think it was something like 50% more likely). Lose and you get dropped and have to do it all again.

Life is all about the timing I am afraid.

[Taribo]

10 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

As we get to Tuesday this is the most sensible post so far since Saturday

Trouble is I’m the OP and I’m not even sure I fully believe it.
 

It’s the hope that gets you.

[BaaLocks]

25 minutes ago, Jayram said:

This belief that the likes of Waggy, Lawrence and Bielik are the key to our situation turning round is not based in reality. All of them played for Cocu last season without pulling up any trees on occasion. He has to get much more out of the players he has now, like good managers do. Those three coming back in will then be the icing on the cake, not the salvation of our season people seem to think they will be.

I'd agree with the OP that we will be in a much better place but I'm not sure this is anywhere near a promotion chasing side and all the personnel in the world doesn't cover the point that we aren't playing a style of football that will win us matches.

• One out of Duncan, Ibe and Joz will be a good un. Hopefully two, dream for three.
• Lawrence has shown that you might like him but you can't really call him pivotal to the team. Flashes of class but nothing that will carry you more than half a game, never mind a season.
• Bielik and Waghorn are definitely going to improve the team, if only to bring a bit of bovva. 
• Holmes also if he can get back to where he was last season.
• MTW we can do little but hope, like many have said he was an Erividesie captain so the hope is he just needs to learn our game.
• Marriott - sorry, I don't think there is a Championship footballer in there. To requote, his strike rate is currently worse than Derek Hales (OK, many sub appearances, long term injury, but still) and I just don't see the footballing intelligence needed at this level. My view, but I don't have too much in the way of hope there.