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[Rammeister]

16 minutes ago, Ramos said:

Think it may add to the fact it’s actually what 9 defeats In last 12 in all comps. The gap between seasons was even shorter so for most the poor run at the end of last season is fresh in the mind. I think if we lose next two people like myself who really want to give cocu benefit of the doubt - will start to really question him. 

I get that he has had a lot to deal with in the last year off the pitch and he seems to from the outside to have handled it all very well. On the pitch, it doesn’t seem like the way he wants us to play is working and I struggle to figure out what his gameplan is. 

Next 6 games are so tricky, if we don’t pick up a couple of wins I struggle to see cocu being here after it - as Mel couldn’t be blamed for making a change. 

I agree.

The problem that I have with all this is that if we had Bielsa or any other of a number of managers we would be doing better. It would be great to see Cocu do his nut on the sideline for example, when we ship another soft goal. I can’t see Bielsa just standing there accepting what is being served up currently.

That’s said, it would also be good to see Rooney do similar on the pitch (like when he berated Marriott last season) and generate some passion, but maybe he feels he can’t due the fact it could be considered a bit hypocritical when he has been poor.

I want Cocu to succeed, but I think after 15 or so games is the time to judge where we are really at.

 

[24Charlie]

We are a team in transition. What is happening is part of the process.

Having injuries to key players has not helped and when they are all fit they will be coming into a team with players they haven't played with.

To expect them all to gel immediately and kick on is fanciful.

Lets look at it.

Lawrence Waghorn and Bielik to come back in.

They have not played with new signings Marshall, MTW, Byrne or Jozwiak.

No-one has played with Ibe or the new striker.

That's 9 players who we would expect to be starters that have yet to play 1 minute as a team together.

It looks a good squad but it will take time and I just hope we can get a result or two to get the pressure off and give Cocu the time to get ticking.

[MuespachRam]

1 hour ago, Van Rammeister said:

If we’d lost 3 games in a row mid season and were sat in say, 10th place, would the calls for Cocu’s head be as loud as they are currently?

I don’t believe so.

whatever way you look at it the facts are that it really could not have been any worse a start to the season than we have had, I dont want Cocu to go, and don't think he will, but can totally understand why people are questioning him. We haven't laid a glove on a team since those first couple of games after the restart and it doesnt look like changing anytime soon either.

[SaintRam]

1 minute ago, MuespachRam said:

whatever way you look at it the facts are that it really could not have been any worse a start to the season than we have had, I dont want Cocu to go, and don't think he will, but can totally understand why people are questioning him. We haven't laid a glove on a team since those first couple of games after the restart and it doesnt look like changing anytime soon either.

I'm in the same boat.

I'm not really engaging Cocu's critics because, like you, I'm on his side - but can't really complain about people being highly critical of what is the worst start to a season in my lifetime; I just have to be patient and hope he can turn it around.

We started the 11pt PL season better than this ? 

[Alph]

23 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Tell you what, take 3 players who contributed 34 goals & 12 assists between them away from pretty much any team in the Championship, fail to replace those players with someone of equivalent quality & experience and see how they go on.

It's not a sodding excuse, it's a valid reason to struggle.

The impact of not being able to score first in a game is massive, and for every time that happens and the opposition grab a goal your confidence will take another hit.

We scored first against Preston after a poor first half, it gave us a clear and evident lift, and even with a man sent off we continued to play pretty well.. yes, they equalised (great strike) but we were still going at them. Then the referee gives one of the worst penalty decisions you're ever going to see, we lose and confidence is decimated once again.

I do agree but imo I thought we were selling ourselves short when those 3 players were available. And that's the bit that stops me telling myself it will all be better when they're back. 

I mean it will be better. I just think even with those players we will still see a team unable to thread a killer pass through an entire team behind the ball because in general, even with our best back 5 or 6, we don't move the ball well enough.

I really want Cocu to marry his philosophy with the players he has. I think over his time here he's either wanted us to do something we can't do or we don't respond to what he wants. 

I expect Jozwiak, Lawrence, Waghorn, Ibe and Holmes to come in and start producing match winning moments. And imo that will lift us away from this relegation talk. I just think it will take us back to last seasons level unless we start doing some of the ugly stuff we very rarely do. 

To me I almost think Cocu could be managing world Cup winning Spain where every goal has to be beautifully crafted. Like a Arsenal invincible exhibition or Pep's Barcelona masterclass. And I loved watching these teams. But those teams evolved more naturally to that. 

What Cocu has is a bunch of average Championship players and some promising but incomplete youth players. Imo he approaches games as a coach, if that makes sense? It's like an exercise in movement and passing. But these are games and mistakes are punished. Confidence is effected. Pressure builds. 

I don't think a player like Andy Carroll exists because he's great to watch. Players like him exist so you can be very basic, be the 2nd best team on the pitch and still score goals. 

It's the more stereotypical English football philosophy that managers like LVG and De Boer seemed to neglect. The ugly stuff. It's a horrible stereotype on British football culture. But I definitely think there's something in it. 

You have to be able to mix it. And by saying that I sound like Jermaine Jenas or Kevin Kilbane ffs!!

[leamram]

I keep hearing, he needs a decent transfer window, needs to get his own players in, need players back from injury...I wonder how long that will go on for, as I was finding it wearing a bit thin even before lockdown, I want stability like we all do, but not with the wrong man in charge, it could do more damage than good,especially to the younger promising player

I don't hold the same optimism as a lot of my fellow Derby fans do in Cocu,but I do hope those who think he will turn this round are right and prove me wrong as they obviously see some promise I dont.

 

[jono]

I am minded to say there is (injuries apart) only one thing wrong at the moment.

We lack some old fashioned bloody mindedness. I think we are missing something in attitude, quite apart from managers instructions. We need some get up, spit the teeth out fortitude. 
 

it’s raining we are 3 down and not much time left. .. heads up, drive .. pride .. fight.

sod “confidence” we need individual perseverance, we need some warriors to give the others a bit of backbone. 

Waggy is a fighter, Lawrence is mardy but has bite we’ve seen Bielik when he busts a gut to impress ... these types of players are infectious when they are in a team. 

Yeah ok .. I sound like a 1970’s school PE teacher ?

[Turk Thrust]

2 hours ago, Van Rammeister said:

If we’d lost 3 games in a row mid season and were sat in say, 10th place, would the calls for Cocu’s head be as loud as they are currently?

I don’t believe so.

It’s not so much the fact of losing three games but the manner in which they were lost. 

[Rammy03]

8 minutes ago, jono said:

Waggy is a fighter, Lawrence is mardy but has bite we’ve seen Bielik when he busts a gut to impress ... these types of players are infectious when they are in a team. 

I get what you're saying but we were still poo when they were in the team last season. It just feels like we're saying the same things as this time last year

[Rammeister]

9 minutes ago, Turk Thrust said:

It’s not so much the fact of losing three games but the manner in which they were lost. 

Not enjoying ‘Total Football’ then?

[Taribo]

1 hour ago, Jubbs said:

Brentford had 4 points after 5 games yet finished 3rd.

We’ll be on 6 points by that time so will probably finish second 

[RoyMac5]

30 minutes ago, jono said:

We lack some old fashioned bloody mindedness. I think we are missing something in attitude, quite apart from managers instructions. We need some get up, spit the teeth out fortitude.

What's happened to Sibley's bite?

[Rampage]

2 hours ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

I think we have had so many injuries and have had to off load a few players we don’t have much competition for places. We have also quite a few younger players. Waghorn, Bielik, Lawrence and Ibe will all be in first team contention. I can’t vote Cocu out until he has had time with his signings and most players fit. 

Was Cocu aware of this Turkish striker from his time in Turkey as manager.

[Rampage]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

What's happened to Sibley's bite?

All down to attitude, aptitude, gratitude and altitude. Less so on altitude. 

[Brammie Steve]

Cocu IN!

[Spanish]

18 minutes ago, Brummie Steve said:

Cocu IN!

honest question, why?  What have you seen that makes it likely that with a following wind he could  take us up?  You don't need to answer really all I am saying is that I have not seen anything to make me fervently believe he is the one to do it.

[Marriot Ram99]

21 minutes ago, Brummie Steve said:

Cocu IN!

The job centre very soon

[Marriot Ram99]

The only reasoning I hear about keeping Cocu is the following. 

1. He plays the youngsters - You could get Jimmy Saville to play the youth but he wouldn't achieve much, that on its own without results is irrelevant.  If we keep on loosing the young players will be worse off for it and at the moment aren't playing well enough. 

2. We need stability - As said by Andicis you don't need stability for success look at Watford and for that matter look at Reading, in 3 games their new  manager has probably done more for them than Cocoa has done in 50+ games. Another example of a new manager changing things is Jones at Stoke who were dire before he came in. 

3.Wait until Christmas or 15 games in for injuries to heal, again another poor reason. Yes we have injuries to key players but we still have a team on paper who should be able to compete and get some points. Give it another 2 games for me which gives him the international break to organise things and if we are still terrible and without a win time for the sack while we can still do something with the season. 

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

The only reasoning I hear about keeping Cocu is the following. 

1. He plays the youngsters - You could get Jimmy Saville to play the youth but he wouldn't achieve much, that in its own without results is irrelevant. 

2. We need stability - As said by Andicis you don't need stability for success look at Watford and for that matter look at Reading, in 3 games their new  manager has probably done for more for them than Cocoa has done in 50+ games. Another example of a new manager changing things is Jones at Stoke who were dire before he came in. 

3.Wait until Christmas or 15 games in for injuries to heal, again another poor reason. Yes we have injuries to key players but we still have a team on paper who should be able to compete and get some points. Give it another 2 games for me which gives him the international break to organise things and if we are still terrible and without a win time for the sack while we can still do something with the season. 

for me the additional big reason is the cost of getting him and his team to leave.  It wont be insignificant at a time when we appear to be short of P&S cash

[Marriot Ram99]

1 minute ago, Spanish said:

for me the additional big reason is the cost of getting him and his team to leave.  It wont be insignificant at a time when we appear to be short of P&S cash

I'd think that if we are struggling and less people renew as a result + we could go down that cost would cancel itself out with the right appointment.