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[Taribo]

Well well well, has everyone calmed down now after Saturday? Shocking 15 minutes and a shocker of a season start overall, HOWEVER, there’s a few positives to come back to after the international break (FYI I’ve written the Norwich game off):

Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielik to come back from injury.

Ibe & Duncan to get match fit.

Jozwiak and MTW to get fully up to speed with the team.

Marriott & Holmes to refind their sharpness.

New striker. 

We’ll be reet 

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, Taribo said:

Well well well, has everyone calmed down now after Saturday? Shocking 15 minutes and a shocker of a season start overall, HOWEVER, there’s a few positives to come back to after the international break (FYI I’ve written the Norwich game off):

Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielik to come back from injury.

Ibe & Duncan to get match fit.

Jozwiak and MTW to get fully up to speed with the team.

Marriott & Holmes to refind their sharpness.

New striker. 

We’ll be reet 

there's a lot on that shopping list, which could also include no more injuries or suspensions

[Rammy03]

52 minutes ago, Taribo said:

Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielik to come back from injury.

Ibe & Duncan to get match fit.

Jozwiak and MTW to get fully up to speed with the team.

Marriott & Holmes to refind their sharpness.

New striker. 

My views really haven't changed at all since Saturday. What if those players return and then another player gets injured? It happens. The excuses are wearing thin now. Next it'll be 'the new striker needs 10 games to be match fit.' We should be doing better with what we have. Simple as that.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

4 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

My views really haven't changed at all since Saturday. What if those players return and then another player gets injured? It happens. The excuses are wearing thin now. Next it'll be 'the new striker needs 10 games to be match fit.' We should be doing better with what we have. Simple as that.

I think we have had so many injuries and have had to off load a few players we don’t have much competition for places. We have also quite a few younger players. Waghorn, Bielik, Lawrence and Ibe will all be in first team contention. I can’t vote Cocu out until he has had time with his signings and most players fit. 

[Rammeister]

If we’d lost 3 games in a row mid season and were sat in say, 10th place, would the calls for Cocu’s head be as loud as they are currently?

I don’t believe so.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Van Rammeister said:

If we’d lost 3 games in a row mid season and were sat in say, 10th place, would the calls for Cocu’s head be as loud as they are currently?

I don’t believe so.

Of course not. Don't understand your point though as we're not though are we. People can only comment on the current situation presented to them not some parallel universe alternative scenario. 

[RoyMac5]

31 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

People can only comment on the current situation presented to them not some parallel universe alternative scenario. 

Spoilsport! ?

[Jubbs]

It's hard to judge early on whereabouts teams will end up at the end of the season unless there are obvious teams who are going to be up there, Bournemouth and Watford for example.

If you look at it, we lost to:

Reading: 3 wins out of 3 so far
Luton: Had just won 6/7 games in a row before they played us, 2 wins from 3.
Blackburn: 2 wins and a narrow loss to Bournemouth, scored 5 more goals than any other team this season.

We have no idea where these 3 teams will be come the end of the season, for all we know, Reading could finish top of the league.

[Rammeister]

38 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Of course not. Don't understand your point though as we're not though are we. People can only comment on the current situation presented to them not some parallel universe alternative scenario. 

It’s not a complicated point.

Losing the first three games feels worse than a mid season blip.

Happy to clarify further if required.

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, Taribo said:

Well well well, has everyone calmed down now after Saturday? Shocking 15 minutes and a shocker of a season start overall, HOWEVER, there’s a few positives to come back to after the international break (FYI I’ve written the Norwich game off):

Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielik to come back from injury.

Ibe & Duncan to get match fit.

Jozwiak and MTW to get fully up to speed with the team.

Marriott & Holmes to refind their sharpness.

New striker. 

We’ll be reet 

But still with Cocu's playing style , tactics and team selections. Hard to be optimistic.

[Tyler Durden]

4 minutes ago, Van Rammeister said:

It’s not a complicated point.

Losing the first three games feels worse than a mid season blip.

Happy to clarify further if required.

My point was being in the bottom 3 is far far worse than being in 10th place so quite rightly the clamour on here is growing. I considered your post to be in some way trying to demerit the amount of noise being made about the situation by saying that if we were 10th then it wouldn't be as loud but we aren't. We're in the bottom 3 with zero points. 

[ramsbottom]

47 minutes ago, Van Rammeister said:

If we’d lost 3 games in a row mid season and were sat in say, 10th place, would the calls for Cocu’s head be as loud as they are currently?

I don’t believe so.

 

44 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Of course not. Don't understand your point though as we're not though are we. People can only comment on the current situation presented to them not some parallel universe alternative scenario. 

The problem is, as Luton, Boro, Huddersfield etc taught us last year, a bad/slow start is very difficult to recover from. We’ve got a tough October to look forward to so it’s very much possible we’ll be in the bottom 3 by the end of it. I’m not even sure it’s the position is what’s freaking everyone out, but the spineless performances. There’s been a distinct lack of backbone in this side for some time...

[G-Ram]

At this rate i think Sheff Wednesday will finish above us & we had a 12 point head start 

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, ramsbottom said:

 

The problem is, as Luton, Boro, Huddersfield etc taught us last year, a bad/slow start is very difficult to recover from. We’ve got a tough October to look forward to so it’s very much possible we’ll be in the bottom 3 by the end of it. I’m not even sure it’s the position is what’s freaking everyone out, but the spineless performances. There’s been a distinct lack of backbone in this side for some time...

This. With kids playing in the side this makes the current start even more parlous given their confidence levels might never recover if we are subjected to a few more nul points in the next games. It's better to blend kids into a successful side then it is to chuck them into a side that's struggling eroding their confidence terminally.

Let's not mince words we haven't played any world beaters so far and still find ourselves with only Wycombe between us and a team whose been deducted points from the bottom of the league. 

[Alph]

I didn't think we were very different when we had Lawrence, Waghorn and Bielik. 

I think Marriott has kind of lived on a promise his entire time here. I think waiting for my little girl to eat a full meal is the only thing that requires more patience.

And Holmes in form is a brilliant player. But his peaks are pointy mountain tops and them his "average" performance is not a patch on him in full flow. 

Excited by Jozwiak and hopeful of Ibe. 

But ultimately I don't accept the excuses. They're a reason but not THE reason imo. A part of our problem is the rigid and predictable style. 

I reckon a lot of managers could complain they haven't got the players to put on a footballing masterclass. Some would love to be able to splash £10m on Bielik and have Rooney in their squad. As @Tyler Durden says, a lot of this is waiting for the stars to align and assuming Cocu is going to create a piece of art once he gets all the right brushes. I can see why people might think he will but also why others think he won't. I'm leaning more towards won't because I don't think he adapts to the suit the players available. 

I'm not even angry about Saturday. I actually managed to pick positives out of it. It was the first time we actually asked questions of an opponent. The first time this season we looked like we knew the point of the game. Unfortunately we got smashed for trying and the negatives are plenty. 

I'm more pissed off about last season. About the pathetic effort v Cardiff. I'm pissed off we play teams like Luton, Charlton, Forest, Millwall, Hull, Scunthorpe, Northampton, etc etc and don't throw a punch. 

Then we kick the season off with nothing to offer Reading and Barrow followed up with defeats to Luton and Preston and Blackburn. 

And I find myself quite pleased with some of the game v Luton and Blackburn!! 

I don't mind anything about Cocu's Derby up until the point they get on the pitch and then with the exception of Stoke at home I've seen pretty much nothing but negative and slow tactics/selections/subs/style 

That battering to Blackburn should have happened a year ago and we could have picked the bones out of it. Really able to have a look at what we have. 

What we have done with these season saving players such as Lawrence and Waghorn is the equivalent of a boxer running for 12 rounds from Anthony Joshua so he can say he lasted 12 rounds. Not throwing a punch and not exposing himself. Just losing every second of the fight on points.

We will be a better side with better players. But I can't find enough from the last 60 games to suggest we will ever amount to much unless we have 15+ of the very best footballers in whatever league we are in. 

The only way to win people over is with results. I don't see how many people will be won over by promising performances now. That window has passed. A good performance and defeat on Saturday won't gain new support for Cocu like it would have a year ago. In fact the way things are, a bad performance and a win might not win many over. 

Cocu is in a hole right now. Probably saved by his record at PSV, his name and our revolving door recent history. 

There are legitimate excuses for why we aren't in great shape. But those excuses don't extend to why we are THIS bad. He doesn't get to complain that this team would smash Blackburn if Knight could play like David Silva. Welcome to an average team in a very tight league, Mr Cocu. 

[Jubbs]

5 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

 

The problem is, as Luton, Boro, Huddersfield etc taught us last year, a bad/slow start is very difficult to recover from. We’ve got a tough October to look forward to so it’s very much possible we’ll be in the bottom 3 by the end of it. I’m not even sure it’s the position is what’s freaking everyone out, but the spineless performances. There’s been a distinct lack of backbone in this side for some time...

Brentford had 4 points after 5 games yet finished 3rd.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

36 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

It's hard to judge early on whereabouts teams will end up at the end of the season unless there are obvious teams who are going to be up there, Bournemouth and Watford for example.

If you look at it, we lost to:

Reading: 3 wins out of 3 so far
Luton: Had just won 6/7 games in a row before they played us, 2 wins from 3.
Blackburn: 2 wins and a narrow loss to Bournemouth, scored 5 more goals than any other team this season.

We have no idea where these 3 teams will be come the end of the season, for all we know, Reading could finish top of the league.

Or Derby ? Maybe we could finish top, maybe I will stick a bet on ?

[Ramos]

1 hour ago, Van Rammeister said:

If we’d lost 3 games in a row mid season and were sat in say, 10th place, would the calls for Cocu’s head be as loud as they are currently?

I don’t believe so.

Think it may add to the fact it’s actually what 9 defeats In last 12 in all comps. The gap between seasons was even shorter so for most the poor run at the end of last season is fresh in the mind. I think if we lose next two people like myself who really want to give cocu benefit of the doubt - will start to really question him. 

I get that he has had a lot to deal with in the last year off the pitch and he seems to from the outside to have handled it all very well. On the pitch, it doesn’t seem like the way he wants us to play is working and I struggle to figure out what his gameplan is. 

Next 6 games are so tricky, if we don’t pick up a couple of wins I struggle to see cocu being here after it - as Mel couldn’t be blamed for making a change. 

[May Contain Nuts]

Tell you what, take 3 players who contributed 34 goals & 12 assists between them away from pretty much any team in the Championship, fail to replace those players with someone of equivalent quality & experience and see how they go on.

It's not a sodding excuse, it's a valid reason to struggle.

The impact of not being able to score first in a game is massive, and for every time that happens and the opposition grab a goal your confidence will take another hit.

We scored first against Preston after a poor first half, it gave us a clear and evident lift, and even with a man sent off we continued to play pretty well.. yes, they equalised (great strike) but we were still going at them. Then the referee gives one of the worst penalty decisions you're ever going to see, we lose and confidence is decimated once again.

Now that, you could call an excuse, but it's purely meant as a depiction of what happened / happens when things are going against you.

So many little things add up & snowball, and I AM genuinely worried this might be an irreversible situation, that the damage is already done.

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, Coconut said:

The impact of not being able to score first in a game is massive

Now that, you could call an excuse, but it's purely meant as a depiction of what happened / happens when things are going against you.

So many little things add up & snowball, and I AM genuinely worried this might be an irreversible situation, that the damage is already done.

I understand your post but not the underlying reasons - are you saying it's down to the ref against Preston that we find ourselves in this position totally bereft of any confidence.

Or whose fault it is that when we concede first that we inevitably go on to lose the game.