"Unacceptable"

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Coconut said:

I really don't know how many times the same questions (not just those ones) can be raised,  answered, the answer disregarded and the question raised again a few posts later before we all go completely insane.

Maybe your answers to those questions aren't quite as good as you think they are, just a thought. Please give us an approved list of what we're allowed to discuss on this forum, since clearly we're only allowed to stay within the parameters you think are ok. 

[Barney1991]

Sibley is better as a 8 for me like bryson he's basically playing as a 2nd striker. We need a hold up striker jozwiak one wing lawrence the other bird and bielik and that for me is a good line up. We need a another wide man and then good to go. BTW this football is worse than clements and he got sacked for it 

[Jayram]

54 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

The people clamouring for Hughton being the same ones moaning about the current “boring” football. Does make me chuckle. 

Difference is, he’s a winner at this level - 2 promotions with 2 different clubs and he would have this current squad competing at the top end of the table. I can live with a certain amount of ‘boring’ if it brings success; currently I’m being bored to death watching my team get  outplayed by the likes of Barrow and Reading. 

[minesahartington]

2 hours ago, S8TY said:

Why did he say it wasn’t good enough then and mention the tempo the lack of forward passes and movement ? Even when he mentions all of the things people are moaning about he still can’t win !!!

He can’t win because he has said it after the last 10 games and not implemented any change in style. If they are not capable that’s a different argument 

[May Contain Nuts]

18 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Maybe your answers to those questions aren't quite as good as you think they are, just a thought. Please give us an approved list of what we're allowed to discuss on this forum, since clearly we're only allowed to stay within the parameters you think are ok. 

If those answers aren't good enough for you then no answer ever will be.

I could state literally what happend and you wouldn't be having it.

[cannable]

40 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Martin is passed it. 

I find it so strange that people are writing him off as passed it when;

• He was our joint top scorer 

• Top assister

• He played just 51% of minutes available

• His first full season at one club since 15/16 was last season and it was also his best since 

• He outperformed his xG 

• He never relied on pace anyway 

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, Coconut said:

If those answers aren't good enough for you then no answer ever will be.

I could state literally what happend and you wouldn't be having it.

Except, seeing as one of the questions you ''answered'' was directly quoting me, I was more querying the style of play changes, which should be able to be consistent regardless of personnel, but yeah, brilliant none answer. 

[NottsRammy]

Im not a cocu out person .

I have my reservations of his laid back manner ( what we see of him ) . I cant see him doing a hairdryer and i believe some players need it .

My main worry even if it was a weak squad yesterday is the weak way they went down , even a weak squad can show fight and character if there is none of that then we go nowhere this season and the one after that till we get it .

My worry is on the players that have left all having a slight dig at former training routines and to me it isnt just our players endearing themselves to their new fans and football club , also one of them malone had a dig of something like glad to be going to a better atmosphere and he wasnt talking about pride park .

I think there is slight unrest .

With slight unrest you get pockets of players who get on some who clearly dont more than usual , if we dont have a unit that is properly together then you dont get fight as there not bothered .Just there to get there wage packet . 

We will see as the season goes on but again this could be cocu's last season if they dont perform i would say mid table and below he has to go .And im not one for chopping managers as i do like the guy and he has had it rough , but i dont know something just niggles me about his whole demeanour i would like to see a bit more bite to his nature and a bit more nastiness and a damn good rollicking . 

If you have a laid back style how do the players also not have a laid back style as well . 

[Barney1991]

Look at the starting line up yesterday and most of those players wouldn't be in his normal starting team. He needs another summer window. Morris gave clement an inexperienced manager 25 million quid to spend. The wages paid were beyond criminal for a championship team and now we have suffered for it. Give cocu that money and tell you what he would have use up there. Look at the type of players we are looking at. Jozwiak I know nothing has come of it but kadioglu lammers etc. All exciting quality of player. Give cocu that money and he would bring these players in. Unfortunately he doesn't and I don't think he would have bought the rate of academy poayers through so quickly either. You would have seen whittaker go on loan probebly even knight would have too. We have to suffer now and build on a penniless budget because of past mistakes. There's been glimpses of cocus style of play last season and tell you what it looked exciting. You can't expect such a young naive set of players to play that way every game while they are still learning. Unless we nuture a academy players and he goes for that Birmingham lads money we are going to have to be patient and let him add through prob another 2 windows selling to make funds as at the moment we don't have much interest in our players because as I say again big contracts. 

[Curtains]

11 minutes ago, cannable said:

I find it so strange that people are writing him off as passed it when;

• He was our joint top scorer 

• Top assister

• He played just 51% of minutes available

• His first full season at one club since 15/16 was last season and it was also his best since 

• He outperformed his xG 

• He never relied on pace anyway 

When I say passed it I mean passed his best.  

Ive always liked CM but it wouldn’t have been wise to offer him 2 years in our current situation 

[May Contain Nuts]

15 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Except, seeing as one of the questions you ''answered'' was directly quoting me, I was more querying the style of play changes, which should be able to be consistent regardless of personnel, but yeah, brilliant none answer. 

Style of play can't be consistent regardless of the available players. Maybe for the odd game here or there but not with long periods where you can't select your first choice players 

So you can play a style relying on intricate passing football in and around the box with Jack Marriott or Connor Sammon playing one up front, standing in for Chris Martin, got it. 

You can play a Warnock style long ball with the striker using his physicality and pace to win knock downs, even if your only striker available is Robert Earnshaw.

If anything it's the opposite, we haven't changed the style of play to compensate for the players we're missing, but then you've got to ask yourself how it would be possible to do that when you consider our squad as a whole.

I saw Alpha say Reading their play to beat us... except they didn't. They've got strong and quick attackers, that's their thing, that's how they beat us, by using the strengths of their first choice, main attacking players, not some youth teamers having to play out of position and a striker with no pace or gold up ability.

I answered the part of the post I quoted with what actually happened mixed with some opinion, I'm really not sure what you want to hear.

As I said, no answer would be good enough for you, so what's the point in continuing?

[JfR]

28 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Now I'm not a particular fan of lumping it up to a big striker - but it's a lot less boring to watch than the current snore-fest. Even Rowettball had a few exciting moments in every game. To say that Hughton's style is boring compared to Cocu is just so totally at odds with the football that I have witnessed. Hughton teams utilise their wingers with great effect. They create chance after chance. They actually carry the ball forward. OK, so their defence is no-nonsense, but to call them boring suggests that my definition of boring is massively different to other peoples'.

The thing is, if you look at Hughton at Brighton - which I believe is the only club you can fairly compare his performance with to Derby, seeing as the others were newly relegated from the Prem or about to be relegated from the Prem teams - he really struggled in his first season due to a lack of forward options and particularly wing options. He got half a season with them in the 2014/15 campaign and only managed to take them from 22nd when he took over to 20th. When you look at the players he used on the wings in that first half-season, you can see why. He was primarily having to play the likes of Sam Baldock (primarily a centre-forward), Inigo Calderon (primarily a right-back) and Joao Carlos Teixeira (primarily a central attacking midfielder) out on the wings to cope with their lack of wing options. His second season in charge was much better in no small part because he managed to strengthen the wings with the likes of Jamie Murphy, Anthony Knockaert and Jiri Skalak, as well as getting in a forward that fit their style of play with Tomer Hemed. I think when this season and last has seen the likes of Knight, Sibley, Marriott, Martin and Bogle have to fill in at winger at various times that it's a fair suggestion that Cocu needs the same backing in getting quality forward options in and available before a firmer judgement can be passed on how he wants to play, because if I watched Brighton in Hughton's first half-season in charge my impression of them wouldn't have been that they had quality, effective wing play.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, CBRammette said:

Would still have far more creativity than anyone on the pitch yesterday

Martin would have been pedestrian and frustrated yesterday, the whole team were poor with no movement , no tempo and the odd time anybody did make some space or beat they’re man they’re cross , pass or shot was pxss poor , 

whether you rate Martin or not players need a team around them 

[Archied]

55 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Maybe your answers to those questions aren't quite as good as you think they are, just a thought. Please give us an approved list of what we're allowed to discuss on this forum, since clearly we're only allowed to stay within the parameters you think are ok. 

List

1 sense 

[Longeatonram2020]

58 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Difference is, he’s a winner at this level - 2 promotions with 2 different clubs and he would have this current squad competing at the top end of the table. I can live with a certain amount of ‘boring’ if it brings success; currently I’m being bored to death watching my team get  outplayed by the likes of Barrow and Reading. 

I’d argue that we’d be worse off with Hughton considerably. We only have the quality of squad we do because of Cocu bringing the young lads through, something Hughton has no experience of doing and with no funds we’d have a poor squad with a bang average manager. 

[Archied]

54 minutes ago, cannable said:

I find it so strange that people are writing him off as passed it when;

• He was our joint top scorer 

• Top assister

• He played just 51% of minutes available

• His first full season at one club since 15/16 was last season and it was also his best since 

• He outperformed his xG 

• He never relied on pace anyway 

And his name is Chris martin?

[Xlor]

5 hours ago, Coconut said:

Hughton relies on having tall, strong defenders, big, powerful strikers and massive amounts of creativity from the wide areas. Dunk, Murray, Knockaert. There's nothing attractive about his football, it's just effective bullying of the opposition and playing the percentages.

Yeah, absolutely nothing attractive about having massive amounts of creativity. ?‍♂️

[jimbo jones]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

I really struggle with comments like that. It seems that many people's definition of boring football is so different to mine. 

To me, the absolute most boring football style possible is side to side, possession based, try to gradually work in an opportunity but never take an actual risk style. That is what Clement played and that is what Cocu plays.

Now I'm not a particular fan of lumping it up to a big striker - but it's a lot less boring to watch than the current snore-fest. Even Rowettball had a few exciting moments in every game. To say that Hughton's style is boring compared to Cocu is just so totally at odds with the football that I have witnessed. Hughton teams utilise their wingers with great effect. They create chance after chance. They actually carry the ball forward. OK, so their defence is no-nonsense, but to call them boring suggests that my definition of boring is massively different to other peoples'.

Indeed football is a game of opinions .

[jimbo jones]

1 hour ago, Jayram said:

Difference is, he’s a winner at this level - 2 promotions with 2 different clubs and he would have this current squad competing at the top end of the table. I can live with a certain amount of ‘boring’ if it brings success; currently I’m being bored to death watching my team get  outplayed by the likes of Barrow and Reading. 

So was Nigel Pearson.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Coconut said:

Why play Sibley and Marriott together, "They are two good players, wasted yesterday"... because our options are currently ridiculously thin on the ground, Marriott is our only available CF,  anyone put next to him would struggle and realistically the only available forward player who stood any chance of creating anything at all, in that role or any other was Sibley

And that was the only way they could have both been on the pitch?