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"Unacceptable"

IslandExile

By IslandExile
in Derby County Forum

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Mafiabob

Mafiabob

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Listen to what Cocu says...

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/09/phillip-cocu-reading-h-september-2020

Does that really sound like someone who sends his team out to play "slow, ponderous, sideways" football? No, it doesn't. He's as frustrated and angry as the rest of us.

You Cocu "doubters" are entitled to your opinions, of course. But please take into account:

He's inherited the worst squad we've had for years.

We've been under a transfer embargo.

Money's too tight to mention.

We've had to sell two bright young prospects to be able to bring anyone in.

We've not yet been able to bring in those creative players.

Our most experienced creative players are all currently injured.

As exciting as Sibley, Knight and Whitaker all are, they're not yet ready to all start together - but needs must.

Sibley, out of position, and Marriott up front together is out of necessity (injuries, incomplete squad), not choice.

One more thing, given suggestions that I've read on here....

I have seen teams managed by Warnock, Hughton and Howe. I am glad that none of those are manager of Derby County.

Trust Cocu. Consider the situation.

COYR ?

You had me at LISTEN. ?

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Uptherams

Uptherams

Posted
Posted

He's come out and made comments many of us have been making for a long time. Tempo not good enough, unnecessarily losing the ball, side way passing, not enough runs forward or into the box. "Players worried about losing possession shouldn't be playing."

We got stick for saying these things. Now the manager has come out and said these things..

I'm disappointed in how we conceded in the same way as we did throughout last season. But we are starting this season weak. Bielik still out, Rooney not starting, no Waghorn, no Lawrence. Holmes yet again ?‍♀️ If Martin was still here he would have started today. If Bogle and Lowe were they would have too. 

We are still after a creative wide man/winger and likely a Martin replacement. Things can only get better for us. 

Wisdom isn't ready in my view. If we had a stronger more experienced side, Buchanan would have started instead of Forsyth too. Marriott and Sibley don't work together. We all know this, but we had no choice yesterday. 

Positives for me were Marshall showed he's a good shot stopper, but he was a significant improvement on last season's choices with the ball at his feet. Moves it quicker, but also has a high line, which allows him to be utilised more with his feet, the sweeper keeper and it pushes our defenders further Up the pitch. 

Whiticker was getting more involved. Huge season for him. 

 

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Alph

Alph

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Curtains said:

How can that be ! 

Because Lawrence has played under Rowett who is very good at counter attacking set ups and managed to give Lawrence the ideal situations for an attacker. 

Then Lampard liked to attack fast, often too fast for us to gain meaningful possession, but also got Lawrence in good attacking situations. 

Cocu has Sibely playing with his back to goal. Every time he tried anything other than passing backwards he had an opponent touch tight on him. 

Take the ball down the flanks or over the top and Sibely is facing the right way. If he gets the ball now and still plays crap then it's his fault

Can't expect him to play like a hold up striker and moan that he doesn't do owt

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Archied

Archied

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yet silly ol' Cocu still wanted to sign him.

FFS I'm appalled that we haven't a replacement lined up - we've known since January that Martin could leave as a free agent!

Yea but let’s be honest they must have been certain he would stay as he loves Derby county sooooo much ,

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Curtains

Curtains

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Because Lawrence has played under Rowett who is very good at counter attacking set ups and managed to give Lawrence the ideal situations for an attacker. 

Then Lampard liked to attack fast, often too fast for us to gain meaningful possession, but also got Lawrence in good attacking situations. 

Cocu has Sibely playing with his back to goal. Every time he tried anything other than passing backwards he had an opponent touch tight on him. 

Take the ball down the flanks or over the top and Sibely is facing the right way. If he gets the ball now and still plays crap then it's his fault

Can't expect him to play like a hold up striker and moan that he doesn't do owt

Just listened to Cocu and it’s clear he wasn’t happy about the first 20 minutes especially saying we had 5 corners and Reading had 1 and scored. 
He wasn’t happy with Max Bird for giving the ball away which on the first occasion was only not a goal because of Marshall.

Unlike Max to be honest. 
I think Cocu looked really fed up and upset at the performance 
Back to Sibley it’s no great issue to have to play football with your back to goal and it’s necessary therefore to have a good first touch all the time. Sibley is young and will learn for sure but he wasn’t good enough yesterday at even holding the ball up. 
Alpha which  player would you compare Sibley with and what type of player.  
He’s not an out and out striker and he not a creative midfielder.

Is he a Bryson type maybe but he tackles poorly and gets booked a lot often when the ball runs away from him. 
Yes he scored 4 goals including a hat trick when he came in the first team and that surprised me having seen him at Forest etc .
The lad has got something but it needs to be developed under not so great expectations for his benefit as well 

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LeedsCityRam

LeedsCityRam

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Now I get he needs attacking reinforcements to improve our goal scoring, but there’s still more he can do with the players he’s got. I mean I’ve never rated Marriott, but since Cocu’s arrived he’s turned into a poor impression of Leon Best. He wasn’t this bad under Lampard. Ditto Sibley, he burst into the team on absolute fire, but his progress seems to have stagnated under Cocu’s coaching. I feel like Whittaker has a lot more to offer as well if he was let off the leash a little. It just seems to me that Cocu’s negative tactics and team setup aren’t conducive to getting the best out of attacking talent. Like yesterday, was there any need to play two defensive fullbacks in Wisdom and Forsyth against Reading at home? It’s all well and good bringing in more attackers, but it feels to me like even Messi would struggle to make an impact under Cocu at the moment.

Got to agree, that decision wasn't a great one. In a team struggling to create, you'd ideally want your full backs as attacking as possible - believe Buchanan & Byrne from the start would have seen us start the game much better. Wisdom didn't look right & he's all at sea for their second.

Re your point about Sibley & Marriott - Sibley's form is more a function of where he's playing at the moment, rather than the coaching per se. I would like to see him deeper & hope that's the last time we see him as advanced. Marriott simply isn't suited to this team (as things stand) - other than a purple patch between October & December in Lampard's season here (and Leeds away), he's been very disappointing overall. He needs someone with presence around him - which is why Martin & he could have worked & why I'd like Rooney pushed up to number 10 to support him.

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Archied

Archied

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No I'm saying you have to pay players what they're worth, you can't live on love.

Why not ? He’s lived on Derby s love for the last 3 or four years ,in fact I’m betting he’s a quite rich man on the Derby dollar ?, rich enough to drop a few grand for the club and fans he loves I’m willing to bet

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Archied

Archied

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Got to agree, that decision wasn't a great one. In a team struggling to create, you'd ideally want your full backs as attacking as possible - believe Buchanan & Byrne from the start would have seen us start the game much better. Wisdom didn't look right & he's all at sea for their second.

Re your point about Sibley & Marriott - Sibley's form is more a function of where he's playing at the moment, rather than the coaching per se. I would like to see him deeper & hope that's the last time we see him as advanced. Marriott simply isn't suited to this team (as things stand) - other than a purple patch between October & December in Lampard's season here (and Leeds away), he's been very disappointing overall. He needs someone with presence around him - which is why Martin & he could have worked & why I'd like Rooney pushed up to number 10 to support him.

Wisdom and fozzy are very capable of getting forward and putting balls into the box but hey I can’t for the life of me understand why he didn’t go with a full back one side who’s been at the club a matter of days and one who has played 3?first team Games max so far,

bet if he had played those two and we lost he would have been wrong for doing that too

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LeedsCityRam

LeedsCityRam

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Archied said:

Wisdom and fozzy are very capable of getting forward and putting balls into the box but hey I can’t for the life of me understand why he didn’t go with a full back one side who’s been at the club a matter of days and one who has played 3?first team Games max so far,

bet if he had played those two and we lost he would have been wrong for doing that too

Yes, they are capable - if they have a platform to attack down the flank but they are fundamentally conservative full-backs & we weren't dominant enough for them to make an impact.

Buchanan & Byrne are quicker and more dynamic & like I said, in a scenario where we have very little penetration or creativity, that was a risk worth taking. Byrne's recent arrival is irrelevant - unless you're suggesting we shouldn't start Jozwiak or other impending signings from the get go either?

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Archied said:

Why not ? He’s lived on Derby s love for the last 3 or four years ,in fact I’m betting he’s a quite rich man on the Derby dollar ?, rich enough to drop a few grand for the club and fans he loves I’m willing to bet

Ask Rooney why not. 

You hated being proved wrong about Martin and it's happened again. Never mind I'm sure if he's crap at Bristol I'm sure you'll enjoy a Pyrrhic victory. ?

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DRBee

DRBee

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, RamNut said:

there are extenuating circumstances, and there’s also cocu-ball.

I’m not convinced by the argument that cocu is chomping on the bit to play high tempo attacking football. The evidence ever since he came is there before our eyes. Slow, ponderous passing, sideways and backwards. Bird began be to be very negative late last season. I remember one game where it took until something like the 38th minute before he played a forward pass, (and that was a mis-directed 10 yard pass that went out for a throw in).

That can only be because of what they do Monday to Friday at moor farm.


 

Perceptive post. When first introduced some of  Bird's play - passing and ball retention , was striking. In the last few matches that has gone. Would hate to think it is Cocu coaching that has produced this,.

 

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