"Unacceptable"

[hintonsboots]

Let’s face it, we had the B team out yesterday. Until we’ve got a full injury free squad, with 3 more attacking options, you can’t see how good we are, and whether or not we’ll be up there challenging.

We all want our club back in the Prem, and once we have a full squad, Cocu needs to show us what he’s made of.

If he continues with the slow Clementesque style, I’d have Smith in once Villa sack him, or Paul Cook. For this season though we all need to give him our full support. 

[JfR]

14 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Stacks of cash? When? Only when they got in the Prem. He did an incredible job on a shoestring budget before that...

They massively broke the spending rules when they went up from this division. They made a £38m loss in a single season in 2014/15. He did a very good job at lower league level with little to spend, but at this level the idea of "plucky little Bournemouth" was a fallacy.

[BramcoteRam84]

Cocu explained his view that the players weren’t confident and scared yesterday and that’s what he couldn’t explain and that also we can’t afford the players to be like that. When players aren’t confident what happens? They take an extra touch, they play safe, they don’t make runs the result is slow ponderous football. Can’t blame Cocu for that.

It’s also ridiculous to look at it after one game and judge that this is how it’s going to be all season. We knew this was going to be a tough start with how preseason has gone, not helped by injuries and the transfer embargo. We need Jozwiak in Lawrence and Waghorn back so the likes of Sibley can have a spell out the team to re-assess what he needs to do - all part of his learning process.
 

Im expecting us to struggle through September and October but once players are fit and the new signings are settled we will come on strong through November and December. Any talk of relegation battles is folly - this “team” will be stronger than last season once all the signings are in and we haven’t finished below 10th for the past 8 seasons!!!

[Alph]

While I can take all that on board I still don't think you need good players to turn a team around a bit. To execute certain situations well, then yeah. I expect stupid crosses from Forsyth or Evans to switch off at CB. I expect to see errors and Waghorn missing a sitter

Those are the things that I expect to cost us games

Put rigidly playing within ourselves like we have done for the majority of his time here? That's something he has introduced in the same way Tony Pulis introduces direct passing and backing up long balls. 

How does the best team not always win in this game if it's just about players? I can only have so much sympathy for the squad he has. It's a better squad than Barrow and you better believe it's at least able to match Reading if you want a top half finish. 

Yet both were able to create the best chances and 1v1's by adapting. Barrow couldn't get the ball so they defended and broke quickly. That's not their style as far as I hear?

Reading are much like us. They have excuses about the season coming a bit too soon. They're a passing side that couldn't figure out how to beat our press for 20 minutes. And then they beat our press several times with very ordinary direct passing from their playmaker goalkeeper. 

They tormented us with a 3.9m signing from Liverpool. 

Cocu has brought in Dowell, Ter Wierik, Bielik, Marshall and Byrne. He's been restricted not restrained 

Reading brushed us aside without us troubling them. Barrow had no troubles. This is not something new that never happened until Waghorn got injured. 

This tale of woe annoys me. 

We played like this v Luton, Northampton, Scunthorpe, Charlton, Forest. We did it with £10m Bielik and Tom the sudden source of all creativity Lawrence. 

So, if it's not what the players are being told then why do they keep doing it?

If they aren't good enough to execute the plan against Reading or Barrow then do we just wait until we have the best squad in the league before we expect to do owt? 

How can we possibly play faster and forward when the ball is pressed to our CB's? They're Champ level CB's. What do we expect from them? They aren't Nesta and Maldini. 

You don't drive up to a broken bridge and carry on. Sit crying that the bridge is broke. Go over it, around it... whatever. You don't moan your car can't fly. You have to adapt even if you'd much rather drive over. And when you pass the bridge you get to drive again.

I'm not Cocu Out. I just think this is as stubborn and rigid as Pearson was with his team. Pearson didn't adapt to the players he expected them to fit in to exactly his style. 

I say it again, I'm not Cocu out. I just can't comfort myself with this tale of woe when we play Barrow and Reading without troubling them. If we lost both but troubled them I wouldn't be so pissed off. Barrow can beat anyone with a bit of luck and hard work. Thats the game. 

But to create nothing but have so much of the ball? And that's down to players? No. No way. We definitely have within our depleted ranks the ability to trouble Reading, Barrow etc. We just insisted on doing the same thing for 90 minutes and prayed that they suddenly stopped defending. 

If Cocu was screaming at them to try adapting but they weren't listening then thats even worse. 

This style has only ever been interrupted by Rooney's elite level vision and intelligence. Not many teams at this level have that luxury. Our players are good. Stop making excuses and make adaptions. Or make Reading look like Liverpool. 

[Curtains]

Cocu for me is doing a good job. 
 

The players are letting him down .

Sibley for one needs to do better. 
 

Id drop him for sure. 
 
 

[Alph]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Cocu for me is doing a good job. 
 

The players are letting him down .

Sibley for one needs to do better. 
 

Id drop him for sure. 
 
 

What can he do? He's played as a #10

He has to face his own goal because nothing goes past him. 

If you're a DM you have nothing to do except send him back to his own midfield. You can spend all game holding his shirt to make sure he doesn't wonder off. 

Now imagine if as a DM you had to face the other way and suddenly had to decide whether to watch the ball or Sibely. Whether to support your defenders or hold your position. Whether to track his run or look out for late support from Bird/Rooney/Shinnie. Whether to pass him on to a CB or blindly follow him hoping that somebody else is doing their job.

That's why we don't create. There's nothing to think about. Same with Marriott and CB's

[IslandExile]

9 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Cocu for me is doing a good job. 
 

The players are letting him down .

Sibley for one needs to do better. 
 

Id drop him for sure. 
 
 

I think it's fair to say Sibley is - out of necessity - playing out of position, further up front than he'd like.

I just think that, at the moment, what makes the team very lightweight in attack is that we are having to play all three of Sibley, Knight and Whitaker.

They need to be eased into the team. With the depleted and incomplete squad, we're having to throw them all in.

Personally, I wish Whitaker would impose himself more aswell - he has the ability, he needs to use it.

[jimbo jones]

2 hours ago, Coconut said:

Hughton relies on having tall, strong defenders, big, powerful strikers and massive amounts of creativity from the wide areas. Dunk, Murray, Knockaert. There's nothing attractive about his football, it's just effective bullying of the opposition and playing the percentages.

Warnock similar, the less said the better really. If you look at our squad for the past 2 season I'm not sure exactly which of our players anyone thinks would suit a Warnock side, it'd have been a disaster.

Howe has only done it at Bournemouth, but in the Championship, yes, they played nice football, helped somewhat by having Matt Ritchie & Simon Francis is their ranks, both now proven PL players, with Yann Kermogant (had a decent enough Champ career) also getting 17 goals.

None of them would have been suitable.

 

The people clamouring for Hughton being the same ones moaning about the current “boring” football. Does make me chuckle. 

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Alpha said:

What can he do? He's played as a #10

He has to face his own goal because nothing goes past him. 

If you're a DM you have nothing to do except send him back to his own midfield. You can spend all game holding his shirt to make sure he doesn't wonder off. 

Now imagine if as a DM you had to face the other way and suddenly had to decide whether to watch the ball or Sibely. Whether to support your defenders or hold your position. Whether to track his run or look out for late support from Bird/Rooney/Shinnie. Whether to pass him on to a CB or blindly follow him hoping that somebody else is doing their job.

That's why we don't create. There's nothing to think about. Same with Marriott and CB's

Sorry but for me and I’ve always said it the hype around Sibley is ridiculous.

Lawrence gets hammered when he plays poorly ! 
 

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

17 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Cocu for me is doing a good job. 
 

The players are letting him down .

Sibley for one needs to do better. 
 

Id drop him for sure. 
 
 

But who would you bring in, given our current state? Another kid?

It all feels a little helpless right now. Thing is, we HAVE seen these players put in decent performances under Cocu....Blackburn at home - no Bielik or Rooney, kids in the midfield........ran them ragged.

So what's turning them on and off? That is what I think Cocu is pondering...

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

The people clamouring for Hughton being the same ones moaning about the current “boring” football. Does make me chuckle. 

I think boring football is easier to accept when it is successful...

[Coneheadjohn]

30 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Tom the sudden source of all creativity Lawrence. 

[Curtains]

Just now, Van der MoodHoover said:

But who would you bring in, given our current state? Another kid?

It all feels a little helpless right now. Thing is, we HAVE seen these players put in decent performances under Cocu....Blackburn at home - no Bielik or Rooney, kids in the midfield........ran them ragged.

So what's turning them on and off? That is what I think Cocu is pondering...

They need good experienced players around them like Lawrence and Rooney and some incomings.

Sibley might well become a very good player but the hype is not helping and it’s probably not his fault as the fans have gone over the top rating him. 
 

I have said all along that he needs to get booked less and keep his head which also applies to Lawrence. 
 

What is Sibleys position because where he is playing at the moment won’t work. 
 

He needs to come from deeper. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, Curtains said:

They need good experienced players around them like Lawrence and Rooney and some incomings.

Sibley might well become a very good player but the hype is not helping and it’s probably not his fault as the fans have gone over the top rating him. 
 

I have said all along that he needs to get booked less and keep his head which also applies to Lawrence. 
 

What is Sibleys position because where he is playing at the moment won’t work. 
 

He needs to come from deeper. 

trouble is at present the experienced players are either crocked, bloated or both.....?

[i-Ram]

I am a long way from thinking Cocu is not the right man for us, but “unacceptable” is not the word I want from my manager after yesterday’s performance. Sometimes a good rollicking is what a team or squad needs. Cocu strikes me as someone who would prefer to get his point across over a small coffee with a slice of hash cake. Come on Philip, get some balls and throw a bloody mug at Wisdom.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

trouble is at present the experienced players are either crocked, bloated or both.....?

Yes so why is Cocu getting it. 

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Same with Marriott and CB's

I can't understand why if we play Marriott we don't play to his strengths rather than him adjusting to Plan A? What was the point of making Sibley look poor? They are two good players, wasted yesterday.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I can't understand why if we play Marriott we don't play to his strengths rather than him adjusting to Plan A? What was the point of making Sibley look poor? They are two good players, wasted yesterday.

How many great games has Sibley had then. 
 

So Marriott is a good player.  
 

You have changed your mind from yesterday 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Curtains said:

How many great games has Sibley had then. 

Quite a few last season when you see how often he's played in the first team. Plus lots more for the U23s.

[Andicis]

Last year, everyone was talking about patience, and look at Farke at Norwich, he had a bad first year and look where they are now. But he got them up the second try, that's not happening here. How many long term managers are a success at this level, now? I see a lot of managers having immediate impacts, and ours still seems to be meandering? I thought we'd got it after lockdown and we started out much more brightly, and now we're regressing. 

If this was a less fashionable name, Cocu would have a lot less support. Dutch managers have a poor record of managing in England for a reason, the style doesn't translate all that well. And we've seen little evidence to the contrary. 

The best managers get the most out of what they have. I don't think that's what we're seeing right now. Cocu might be making the right noises, but we've all heard managers do that before, if he can't fix it then what does that help?