"Unacceptable"

[Barney1991]

This isn't the first time this has happened where the players look slow not interested. Brton away when we lost under Rowett under Lamport aswell it happened. You can't all those 3 want to play sideways boring football. With that squad yesterday any of those managers stated would have struggled with how the team played. He didn't say tell you what just run around and look like you don't know what you are doing. With the money we have we are either going to have to be patient and let cocu get a full 11 of his players which I still think he needs another summer window or to hurry it up sell a bird or sibley and hope we get 20 to 25 million to properly invest in the squad. Or we hope we get a part investment with some money. If we got fully token over I would worry cocu would be gone and they go away from the academy vision 

[Dcfcsr92]

We are missing bielik in midfield so much with bird shinnie or rooney operating in the midfield slows us down so much bird as much as hes done well for us slows us down far too much hes needs to be more adventurous and look for forward passes, we looked better when knight went into the midfield as he was finding men in space on the wings 

[Duracell]

I can’t remember a time where such a universal condemnation of performances has been met with so little condemnation of the manager.

Yesterday was awful, but the number of people calling for Cocu to go is a very small minority. I see widespread support and a lot of understanding that the main issue is that Saturday’s performance came between us selling lots of players and signing their replacements.

There’s a degree of healthy scepticism from many fans about the style of play - but the amount of fans outright writing him off is very small.

I’m sure my perception would be different if I’d heard the inevitable boos at full time if we could have been there, but still - let’s enjoy the relative unity of us all being frustrated but behind the manager.

[Justa]

2 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Listen to what Cocu says...

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/09/phillip-cocu-reading-h-september-2020

Does that really sound like someone who sends his team out to play "slow, ponderous, sideways" football? No, it doesn't. He's as frustrated and angry as the rest of us.

You Cocu "doubters" are entitled to your opinions, of course. But please take into account:

He's inherited the worst squad we've had for years.

We've been under a transfer embargo.

Money's too tight to mention.

We've had to sell two bright young prospects to be able to bring anyone in.

We've not yet been able to bring in those creative players.

Our most experienced creative players are all currently injured.

As exciting as Sibley, Knight and Whitaker all are, they're not yet ready to all start together - but needs must.

Sibley, out of position, and Marriott up front together is out of necessity (injuries, incomplete squad), not choice.

One more thing, given suggestions that I've read on here....

I have seen teams managed by Warnock, Hughton and Howe. I am glad that none of those are manager of Derby County.

Trust Cocu. Consider the situation.

COYR ?

Nice post but I don’t understand what Cocu has done to deserve this unfailing loyalty  and belief ?

Too me he looks lost and out of his depth - he has to quickly find a way to get his message across, he’s had 12 months and even though they have been turbulent we should be showing signs that his ideas are getting through.

At the moment he looks like a fraud - a lot of people on here are impressed by what he did as a player which to me counts for absolutely nothing.

Of course I’d love to be proved wrong I really would but I just don’t see it ?

[secretsquirrel]

I think a fair number of people understand the way Cocu wants the team to play is not what is happening on the pitch,whether this is due to the management team not getting the message across ,they seem to have countless A4 prints in folders with play positions,maybe its too complicated for them.It maybe, and i think many of us have felt there is no leader on the field,not just a problem to Cocu but for many of the managers over the last however many years and no-one takes control on the pitch as the nerves set in.Probably we could do with someone like Pontus Jansen-i was/am hoping Te Weirik could be that person.

[DCFC1976]

As disappointing and frustrating as yesterday was there were mitigating factors in the injuries, transfers not completed etc. If I recall last year Brentford had a terrible start but recovered to be one of the best in the league. Not saying that will happen with us but we are only one game in and the squad definitely isn’t complete. Think we missed one when Murray went to Watford, he would have ideal for us?!

[S8TY]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

there are extenuating circumstances, and there’s also cocu-ball.

I’m not convinced by the argument that cocu is chomping on the bit to play high tempo attacking football. The evidence ever since he came is there before our eyes. Slow, ponderous passing, sideways and backwards. Bird began be to be very negative late last season. I remember one game where it took until something like the 38th minute before he played a forward pass, (and that was a mis-directed 10 yard pass that went out for a throw in).

That can only be because of what they do Monday to Friday at moor farm.

 

Why did he say it wasn’t good enough then and mention the tempo the lack of forward passes and movement ? Even when he mentions all of the things people are moaning about he still can’t win !!!

[StarterForTen]

14 minutes ago, DCFC1976 said:

Think we missed one when Murray went to Watford, he would have ideal for us?!

But they matched his Brighton wages plus a signing on fee - that’s probably £2.5m for a season. 

You can get half of a Wayne Rooney for that!

[S8TY]

All of those on here wanting a Warnock:

he will not be interested in nurturing or over seeing the academy as a long term project because he’s too old and would have zero interest ...this is what our owner wants hence Cocu because if his track record with young players 

also if and it’s a big if considering we can’t seem to supply Cocu with the players he wants to supplement the youngsters ....if we made it to the prem it would be more sustainable and wouldn’t mean bankrupting the club ...it’s ok wanting a warnock type but there’s a reason he’s had so many clubs he’s a good manager don’t get me wrong but if you want the youngsters t progress we have the right man ...just give him a chance ...as so far he’s really been dealt a crap hand ...give him some players ffs the youngsters alone will not be ready and therefore good enough at the moment 

[Nuwtfly]

It's quite disappointing that a post of this nature is needed after the first game of the season. Maybe some of us need to have a look at ourselves and how we react!

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Rammy03 said:

We all like to praise cocu when it's going well so we have to criticise him when it isn't.

That's a lie for a start (I'm not taking about you personally, for whom it may be true)

A lot of people only seem to begrudgingly praise him, for anything, they've given him 'credit' which has lasted only up until the next poor performances or decision they don't agree with. No lasting benefit of the doubt.

Some people have written off any good form as being completely down to Wayne Rooney. Couldn't possibly credit Cocu for a run of good form.

Positive performances have actually been used as yet another stick to beat him with, used as a measure for how we should be performing all the time even though the rug has constantly been pulled from under him. 

His job's been more akin to that of an antique clock restorer than that of a football manager. He's got some very old cogs just hanging on in there, ideally they need replacing (at the very least regular greasing) with fresh shiny new cogs, but the manufacturers have stopped making the parts the clock ran well on previously, they can only be found for vastly inflated prices on eBay, the new ones don't quite fit properly and need quite a bit of extra machining before they can slot into place.

At times he's got nearly everything running all at once, the clock's moving half a second too slow, it's semi presentable but it needs more work. He sets out to do this work, some would call it tinkering, and BAM, there's a snapping sound, an odd grinding noise coming from the deepest depths of the mechanism, the second hand stops moving... anyway, enough of that strange indulgence! ?

 

Moving on... it seems that some are willing to write off just how important the quality of player is and put the blame more on tactics and mentality than anything. A team should always play in the manager's image, right?

Even at our best in 2013-2015 when you simply removed Martin from the equation we could end up playing slow football in front of the opposition, recycling possession without penetration.

Now let's go a step further and amputate McClaren's team of 2013/14 of not just Martin but Ward, Russell, Keogh, & Bryson as well, let's put him under a soft embargo too, he can only work with what he's been given. The starting 11 could have looked something like this...

Grant

Wisdom O'Brien Buxton Forsyth

Hughes    Eustace   Hendrick

Bennett Sammon Coutts

Is McClaren getting that team to play successful fast attacking football? No, no he isn't. 

[Premier ram]

Cocu has been up to his neck in it since day one , totally unfair to call for his head already , some of the posts on here are verging on the hysterical , i have total faith in him , give him the tools to do the job and he will prove to be the man to get us back where we want to be

[Will Hughes Hair]

People have got to realise that our recent wage bill has been in the region of 36m/year.  Yesterday the wages of our starting 11 would have amounted to 5m/year.  There was another 5m/year on the bench (half of which is Rooney).  And there's another 5m/year in the treatment room.  Beyond that we haven't got anyone realistically available.

Beyond injuries players (particularly young ones) will drift in and out of form.  Squad depth is our biggest issue.  We have no way to cope with either injuries or loss of form.

Five or six players need to come into this group.  Admittedly one or two might be academy products but we need 3 or 4 experienced forward focused players.

[tomsdubs]

3 hours ago, Derbados said:

You wouldn’t take Eddie Howe or Chris Hughton as manager here? 

I’ll have what you’re smoking!

Howe no, massively overrated because he's English. Had stacks of cash at Bournemouth paying crazy wages to get players, had huge cash in Champ as well. Average manager at best, couldn't cut it on a real budget at Burnley.

[tomsdubs]

For me the real issue is squad balance not the style of play, we play sideways because we don't have the right front 3 movement. Players don't have the confidence to execute the game plan once teams sit in.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Anyone remember the early nigel clough days?

We missed our chances when we were strong. There's consiquences for that which we're currently working through.

We're probably a decent midtable side when at full strength, but we're below full strength right now.

FWIW my thoughts are there's probably more focus on doing it "right" than on doing it fast and with intensity from the manager, which is great in theory, but you can see if the other team blocks it off quick they end up with nowhere to go. I don't think we're doing things that much wrong, the problem is we're not doing them fast enough for them to work. Just do what you've been training to do faster than the other team's defenders react to stop you doing it.

 

[BOB BIGGS]

I suspect many of us - didn’t expect us to score yesterday; don’t believe we have sufficient players available at present to match many teams; and will have little threat from forward positions until new players are signed and/or the likes of Lawrence, Waghorn, Holmes and Bielik are available. 

I also suspect that these people are more realistic than others about our financial situation. Its not pretty!

Cocu has a mountain to climb at present. He must be sick of everything that’s been thrown at him over the last 12 months. I hope he can battle through.

[Millenniumram]

I think we all feel for Cocu a bit. He’s walked into an absolute basket case of a club, with all sorts of financial problems, EFL charges and quite possibly the worst recruitment team on the planet. What he inherited was poor, there is no doubting that. We can’t be expecting miracles when he’s being forced to play loads of youngsters who aren’t really ready for the level of pressure being forced upon them yet, who are getting into the team simply because we have no one else, not because they’re good enough. And just when it looked like things might be getting better with a takeover last year which might have finally given Cocu some proper funds to rebuild the team, that fell through as well. I don’t think Phil could have had a much more difficult start to life in England.

BUT, Cocu cannot absolve himself of blame entirely. That team put out yesterday was still capable of putting in a better performance than we saw. When a manager isn’t getting the best out of his players, it’s a cause for concern imo. And I don’t think Cocu has been getting the absolute maximum out of what’s at his disposal for most of his time here. We may have lacked attacking quality yesterday in the lineup, but that defence was a pretty solid championship back line who shouldn’t be shipping two goals at home to Reading in the first half.

It’s all well and good correctly identifying the issues in your after match press conference, but it’s HIS responsibility to sort those problems out. And we seemed to have made very little progress in that regard during his time here so far. We’re still conceding far too many soft goals from set pieces. Still making far too many individual errors in possession. Still starting games slowly. Still playing at too low a tempo. Still lacking creativity in the final third. These are all problems that we’ve had since Cocu took the job on - I don’t think it’s too much to expect for us to be seeing some sort of progress a year into his reign.

Now I get he needs attacking reinforcements to improve our goal scoring, but there’s still more he can do with the players he’s got. I mean I’ve never rated Marriott, but since Cocu’s arrived he’s turned into a poor impression of Leon Best. He wasn’t this bad under Lampard. Ditto Sibley, he burst into the team on absolute fire, but his progress seems to have stagnated under Cocu’s coaching. I feel like Whittaker has a lot more to offer as well if he was let off the leash a little. It just seems to me that Cocu’s negative tactics and team setup aren’t conducive to getting the best out of attacking talent. Like yesterday, was there any need to play two defensive fullbacks in Wisdom and Forsyth against Reading at home? It’s all well and good bringing in more attackers, but it feels to me like even Messi would struggle to make an impact under Cocu at the moment.

Long post that I doubt many will read, but just needed a rant to get my current feelings out there. I’ll make it clear that I’m absolutely not calling for Cocu’s head, he did a very good job under difficult circumstances last season and deserves a proper shot this season. I’m just saying that some criticism of him is justified. It’s not just the players that need to be braver, HE needs to braver too. Maybe try starting with only one CDM, and at least one attacking full back. Just be a bit more positive from the outset. Otherwise we’re very quickly going to slip into Nigel Clough type mediocrity, where you can almost predict how every game is going to go. It’s already getting to the point where I’m not looking forward to games anymore because I just know we’re gonna see zero attacking threat. And I’d hate for that to continue, and us end up needing another change of manager to get the best out of our young attackers. Cocu needs to prove that he can become like McClaren was to Clough, and not need replacing with someone who can be.

[Jimbo Ram]

18 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Howe no, massively overrated because he's English. Had stacks of cash at Bournemouth paying crazy wages to get players, had huge cash in Champ as well. Average manager at best, couldn't cut it on a real budget at Burnley.

Stacks of cash? When? Only when they got in the Prem. He did an incredible job on a shoestring budget before that...

[Matlock Old Ram]

Please remember that In the first season of BC and PT we ended up third bottom of the league. Give Cocu chance to sort it and stop criticising