Bielik

[May Contain Nuts]

49 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

In my opinion he was slow and ponderous and many others on this forum. Hows that made up .  You compared a player with premier league experience who was instrumental to us getting in the playoffs under mac 1 to a kid who has played almost his entire career in League 1 with a number of those games at centre half . I nfact you claim he's better with no basis at all. 

You also ask people to fact check and accuse me of making stuff up when your own data has proved to be highly suspect and rash .

Leaving this one now as it's my day off and you cannot validate your claim in any way so the conversation is totally moot.

Ah using "and many others on this forum" to back yourself up. Classic BS but we've all done it at some point.

I've seen maybe 3 posters make critical remarks in a similar vein. I think most would accept that he came in on the back of having no pre-season, stepping up a league and had some moments he'd rather forget, but your assertion that he was 'ponderously slow' at all times is ridiculously one-eyed and not true. There's video evidence showing this. A handful of people agreeing with you doesn't make you right.

I think you and Jubbs are making different comparisons / statements.

You're arguing about whether Bielik is as good as Eustace was at doing the things Eustace excelled at. Jubbs is arguing that Bielik has a higher ceiling and some aspects of his play are statistically as good if not better than Eustace's.

You don't need stats to prove Bielik can do 'more' than Eustace, it's a simple fact that there are more facets to his play, you only have to watch him play to know this, unless you're intentionally failing to acknowledge what sort of player he is, which wouldn't surprise me.

Eustace was never going be a physically dominant DM making strong challenges and winning aerial battles, it wasn't his game, he wasn't going to go on a forward run with the ball, he wasn't going to play ambitious through balls (that something Thorne also added on top of Eustace) but he kept it simple, marshalled the defence and used the ball well, using his experience.

Bielik hasn't performed that role with same impact as Eustace, and why would he? He's still learning the game, Eustace was a seasoned pro.

You're also failing to acknowledge that Eustace was playing alongside Hughes, Hendrick & Bryson in his prime, and with Keogh behind him, not trying to hold a crumbling midfield together 

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Loved Eustace but I'm with @Jubbs on this one.

[Jubbs]

 Here's a nice video people can watch. Yes I know it's a highlights compilation, but the fact he has this many in 19 games, shows just how good he is.

[roboto]

Watching that just makes me miss him more.

Hard to believe those highlights are Derby under Cocu with all those forward passes... ?, as some would have you believe we have only ever played negative football for the last season and a bit.

[Brammie Steve]

Wow!

That's like watching Colin Todd all over again!

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

23 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

He has 19 games in the championship and in my opinion, has been better than Eustace was in both seasons. Don't forget, Eustace also played in a very good team, he was made to look better because of the players around him. He was awful in his first loan with us, which, was played alongside a poor team.

PLEASE DO FACT CHECKS. John Eustace had a loan spell in 2006/07 season to League 2 Hereford United.

I don't claim to fact check incessantly . I give opinion unless it's for something important.  The facts would be that Bielik has played 10 times more games in the first 3 years a professional in League 1 -unless he was on Wallsalls bench-than Eustace did in his first 16. 

Can you point me in the direction of when Bielik captained a premier league team in his first three years as a professional.

 

 

 

[IslandExile]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

I keep reading this thread hoping it's going to tell me when he's back! 

Bielik or Eustace?

[Andicis]

Bielik was statistically excellent when he played last season. He offers something we lack - an aggressive, ball winning midfielder. He could be great for Bird to play alongside. Last game, Blackburn just ran through the middle of the park. It won't happen with Bielik on the pitch. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

32 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Ah using "and many others on this forum" to back yourself up. Classic BS but we've all done it at some point.

I've seen maybe 3 posters make critical remarks in a similar vein. I think most would accept that he came in on the back of having no pre-season, stepping up a league and had some moments he'd rather forget, but your assertion that he was 'ponderously slow' at all times is ridiculously one-eyed and not true. There's video evidence showing this. A handful of people agreeing with you doesn't make you right.

I think you and Jubbs are making different comparisons / statements.

You're arguing about whether Bielik is as good as Eustace was at doing the things Eustace excelled at. Jubbs is arguing that Bielik has a higher ceiling and some aspects of his play are statistically as good if not better than Eustace's.

You don't need stats to prove Bielik can do 'more' than Eustace, it's a simple fact that there are more facets to his play, you only have to watch him play to know this, unless you're intentionally failing to acknowledge what sort of player he is, which wouldn't surprise me.

Eustace was never going be a physically dominant DM making strong challenges and winning aerial battles, it wasn't his game, he wasn't going to go on a forward run with the ball, he wasn't going to play ambitious through balls (that something Thorne also added on top of Eustace) but he kept it simple, marshalled the defence and used the ball well, using his experience.

Bielik hasn't performed that role with same impact as Eustace, and why would he? He's still learning the game, Eustace was a seasoned pro.

You're also failing to acknowledge that Eustace was playing alongside Hughes, Hendrick & Bryson in his prime, and with Keogh behind him, not trying to hold a crumbling midfield together 

 

I'd argue that, I've seen a fair few posts on here making the same base point of him being slow.  As i've argued you can't claim a young player is as good as a seasoned pro with umpteen games at a higher level when he's lived at League 1 for the basis of comparison.

You can't demand facts of someone as Jubbs did when declaring something as fact you cannot in anyway prove. 

I hope he comes back into the team and is a star .  I just can see it .

Do you think Bielik has shown he's worth every penny of a 1O million fee ?

[Jubbs]

8 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Can you point me in the direction of when Bielik captained a premier league team in his first three years as a professional.

Can you point me in the direction where John Eustace captained PREMIER LEAGUE Coventry? Strachan made him captain after they were relegated to the Championship, which was his 4th professional season.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

I've just had a thought. Thorne, Bielik and Forsyth all have fairly similar builds (particularly the latter two). I wonder if their sort of frame (tall and gangly) contributes to ACL injuries?

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I've just had a thought. Thorne, Bielik and Forsyth all have fairly similar builds (particularly the latter two). I wonder if their sort of frame (tall and gangly) contributes to ACL injuries?

Getting the wrong side of your man doesn't help. 

Reach around tackles open up the knee. 

Think that's a more likely link. 

[Big Trav]

The way bielik strolled round the pitch was a joy to watch at times. The way he won the ball took his man on and played a forward pass was so good to watch. Very promising 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

7 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Can you point me in the direction where John Eustace captained PREMIER LEAGUE Coventry? Strachan made him captain after they were relegated to the Championship, which was his 4th professional season.

2000-01.  He was interim captain for two games when McAllister left pre season.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

44 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

 Here's a nice video people can watch. Yes I know it's a highlights compilation, but the fact he has this many in 19 games, shows just how good he is.

It's good but it's not quite:

 

[Spanish]

[Dethorn]

Imho at their best

1 Thorne

2 Bielik

3 Eustace

nothing to back it up and to be honest Thorne has never really looked like it for a long time now so what do I know...

[BondJovi]

37 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

2000-01.  He was interim captain for two games when McAllister left pre season.

Well. That changes everything.

[Jourdan]

I think highlight packages can be misleading.

See Camara, Jozefzoon, Blackman, Butterfield, Albentosa amongst others.

Anyone can have good moments in a game, after all.

I mean if they filmed me playing football four years ago, you could put together a highlights package of crisp finishing, incisive passes, a whole range of Martin-esque assists, through balls and link up play.

But you would miss all the times I got pressed to death, slowed the game down, couldn’t run, couldn’t tackle, couldn’t track back, gave away possession and generally had days where I looked like a patisserie owner not a footballer.

I prefer to watch games and judge a player on his overall contribution, the good and the bad, and to my mind, Bielik rarely came away being central to a good performance or a winning effort, like you would expect from an £8m signing. But maybe it’s fair to say I missed his good games!

Like I’ve said before, Bielik has potential but on returning from injury, we would be wise to be gentle with him, because we don’t know how the injury will have affected aspects of his game like his pace and athleticism as well as any mental scars he might carry from the injury.

I certainly wouldn’t expect him to have the impact of a Thorne or a Hughes. But maybe a year from now, in a settled, confident side, he could be the player we have all been waiting for.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

20 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

Well. That changes everything.

Makes my point.  Not sure your making one .  Unless you have any interjection to add to the discussion ?