Bielik

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Bielik does everything Eustace does and more. 

 

He was subbed on 60 minutes, he hadn't got a yellow card and it was a tactical sub as we'd just gone 2-0 down. Please fact check before. 

Compared to other DMs he had hardly any cards last season (yes played half their games, but in proportion he still had less)

Kalvin Phillips: 9 yellows, 1 red, 37 starts.    Joe Williams: 13 yellows, 1 red, 34 starts.    Samba Sow: 9 yellows, 22 starts.                Sam Morsy: 12 yellows, 43 starts.                Romaine Sawyers: 10 yellows, 1 red, 42 starts. 

Bielik: 3 yellows, 1 red, 19 starts. 

You've asked someone to fact check, but seem happy to say he can do more than Eustace who played that position for years in the premier league and exceptionally for us over two seasons in particular .  The trick to that position is to make the danger man your snuffing out get the yellow card through frustration, which Eustace and Thorne were excellent at. not lumber into dangerous tackle after dangerous tackle and get the card yourself or get injured. 

Bielik looked ponderously slow in midfield and  possession and played as many games at centre half- a position he prefers and believes he's best at .

 

[Orphanram]

I think Bielik looks like he has the ingredients of a top player and really hope he will be a great signing for us but he hasn’t Half improved since he’s been injured

[NottsRam77]

8 hours ago, Jubbs said:

Bielik does everything Eustace does and more. 

 

He was subbed on 60 minutes, he hadn't got a yellow card and it was a tactical sub as we'd just gone 2-0 down. Please fact check before. 

Compared to other DMs he had hardly any cards last season (yes played half their games, but in proportion he still had less)

Kalvin Phillips: 9 yellows, 1 red, 37 starts.    Joe Williams: 13 yellows, 1 red, 34 starts.    Samba Sow: 9 yellows, 22 starts.                Sam Morsy: 12 yellows, 43 starts.                Romaine Sawyers: 10 yellows, 1 red, 42 starts. 

Bielik: 3 yellows, 1 red, 19 starts. 

I’m pretty sure he was 

it sticks out Cos it was his return to his former club 

I’m sure he was on a red card right rope 

edit: my apologies 

it was the charlton home game where he got sent off 

following on from the Wigan game where he got taken off at half time 

facts checked ? 

[Jubbs]

9 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

not lumber into dangerous tackle after dangerous tackle and get the card yourself or get injured. 

If anything, Eustace and Thorne were more dangerous. 

Championship stats between all 3:

Eustace (not including loan spell, he was rubbish then):
10 yellows in 35 games in 13/14. 
5 yellows, 1 red in 13 games in 14/15.

Thorne:
5 yellows in 12 games in 13/14. 
0 yellows in 3 games in 14/15.
8 yellows in 34 games in 15/16.
1 yellow in 9 games (20 games altogether, but 837mins is around 9 x 90mins)

Bielik:
3 yellows, 1 red in 19 games in 19/20.

[Rampage]

34 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

If anything, Eustace and Thorne were more dangerous. 

Championship stats between all 3:

Eustace (not including loan spell, he was rubbish then):
10 yellows in 35 games in 13/14. 
5 yellows, 1 red in 13 games in 14/15.

Thorne:
5 yellows in 12 games in 13/14. 
0 yellows in 3 games in 14/15.
8 yellows in 34 games in 15/16.
1 yellow in 9 games (20 games altogether, but 837mins is around 9 x 90mins)

Bielik:
3 yellows, 1 red in 19 games in 19/20.

If a yellow stops a goal then fine.

[Jubbs]

23 minutes ago, Rampage said:

If a yellow stops a goal then fine.

Of course, I remember Max Bird vs QPR last season could've easily gotten a yellow by cynically tripping their player on the breakaway but didn't and then they scored. 

But this is what I'm trying to say about our fans not liking Bielik, he already gets crucified for his "discipline" but has 3 yellow cards, imagine if he had, lets say, 9 yellow cards but stopping goals, imagine how much he'd be crucified then!

[Leicester Ram]

Will be interesting to see Bielik play in basically an entirely different team to the one he left in January.

His last start was the Bird/Knight breakout game, which feels like a lifetime ago. A lot has happened since and while the defence remains relatively unchanged behind him, he’s got a new attacking team in front of him.

I do feel he’s the player we need on paper and I’ve got faith in him to get back to being one of the first names on the team sheet. With Rooney’s dip, I’m very invested in a Bird/Bielik partnership forming sooner rather than later. That’s the sort of spine that will sure up the midfield and allow the attackers to play their game.

Despite the awful results, you can quite clearly see a team with potential developing.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, Jubbs said:

If anything, Eustace and Thorne were more dangerous. 

Championship stats between all 3:

Eustace (not including loan spell, he was rubbish then):
10 yellows in 35 games in 13/14. 
5 yellows, 1 red in 13 games in 14/15.

Thorne:
5 yellows in 12 games in 13/14. 
0 yellows in 3 games in 14/15.
8 yellows in 34 games in 15/16.
1 yellow in 9 games (20 games altogether, but 837mins is around 9 x 90mins)

Bielik:
3 yellows, 1 red in 19 games in 19/20.

Remember that Bielik was centre half or subbed in a number of those games. 

13 cards in 57 for Thorne is a better ration than Bielik as well and no reds.  He got 12 yellows in 30 games the year before as well at a lower level

Anyway,  the main point is that you stated Bielik could do loads more in that position than Eustace, when there is no evidence or facts to show that, up against a fella who had a decade or more in the top division playing that role and an instrumental one here.

[tomsdubs]

Outside of defensive capabilities I really liked Bielik's ability to charge forward and pick good passes, we could really use a guy like that right now...

[Jubbs]

 

11 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Remember that Bielik was centre half or subbed in a number of those games. 

13 cards in 57 for Thorne is a better ration than Bielik as well and no reds.  He got 12 yellows in 30 games the year before as well at a lower level

Anyway,  the main point is that you stated Bielik could do loads more in that position than Eustace, when there is no evidence or facts to show that, up against a fella who had a decade or more in the top division playing that role and an instrumental one here.

Counting yellow as 1 card and red card as 2 cards here.

Bielik: 5 cards in 19 games = 1 card every 3.8 games.
Thorne: 14 cards in 58 games = 1 card every 4.1 games.
Eustace: 17 cards in 48 games = 1 card every 2.8 games.

Here's a defensive comparison between Bielik and Eustace: 

 

 

 

[minesahartington]

I remember being at Birmingham City away one Boxing Day. It was freezing and snowing. All the players came out to warm up dressed as eskimos... except Eustace who came out in short sleeves. For that reason alone he is unsurpassed. At that moment Birmingham were beaten.. and duly battered!

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Counting yellow as 1 card and red card as 2 cards here.

Bielik: 5 cards in 19 games = 1 card every 3.8 games.
Thorne: 14 cards in 58 games = 1 card every 4.1 games.
Eustace: 17 cards in 48 games = 1 card every 2.8 games.

Here's a defensive comparison between Bielik and Eustace: 

 

 

Bit lost with what your showing me there really. Apart from your fact about Thorne wasn't correct in the initial post.

I refer you to the below as my main point

Anyway,  the main point is that you stated Bielik could do loads more in that position than Eustace, when there is no evidence or facts to show that, up against a fella who had a decade or more in the top division playing that role and an instrumental one here.

[Jubbs]

7 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Anyway,  the main point is that you stated Bielik could do loads more in that position than Eustace, when there is no evidence or facts to show that, up against a fella who had a decade or more in the top division playing that role and an instrumental one here.

"Decade or more in the top division"
In John Eustace's 19 year playing career, he made 49 premier league appearances, early on in his career for Coventry. He then played 11 game for Dundee in Scottish Prem, then spent the rest of his career in the championship.

Bielik is 21. He will surpass John Eustace's career appearances in the Premier League/a top division.

I gave you the stats showing Bielik > Eustace defensively, which is what Eustace was known for. Bielik can do more than defensive work, as shown by his dribbling stats, progression stats by ball carrying and also passing. 

[Anag Ram]

I keep reading this thread hoping it's going to tell me when he's back! 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

"Decade or more in the top division"
In John Eustace's 19 year playing career, he made 49 premier league appearances, early on in his career for Coventry. He then played 11 game for Dundee in Scottish Prem, then spent the rest of his career in the championship.

Bielik is 21. He will surpass John Eustace's career appearances in the Premier League/a top division.

I gave you the stats showing Bielik > Eustace defensively, which is what Eustace was known for. Bielik can do more than defensive work, as shown by his dribbling stats, progression stats by ball carrying and also passing. 

Fair enough,  my memory- OPINION- may have been thinking of Telfer.  He did play for Boro in the prem as well.  Check them facts.

Can you compare their premier league stats for me,  the stats you gave me were one season with less games and over different positions, far easier to pass and carry the ball from centre of defence. Eustace was also offside less and put in more tackles in 14/15.  I also remember his agent moaning like buggery that we dropped him into the U23's after he looked ponderously slow in our first team. 

 

 

 

[Jubbs]

8 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Fair enough,  my memory- OPINION- may have been thinking of Telfer.  He did play for Boro in the prem as well.  Check them facts.

Can you compare their premier league stats for me,  the stats you gave me were one season with less games and over different positions, far easier to pass and carry the ball from centre of defence. Eustace was also offside less and put in more tackles in 14/15.  I also remember his agent moaning like buggery that we dropped him into the U23's after he looked ponderously slow in our first team. 

 

 

 

He played 1 game for Boro in the premier league.

I cannot get all round stats other than goals and assist for his premier league games because stats like those don't go back to 1999-2003...

Bielik played 1 game for U23's because he came off at half time vs Wigan with a slight niggle, then on his return was sent off early doors, so the U23's game was the regain his match fitness. It wasn't at all because he looked "slow and ponderous" for our first team at all, so please don't make things up. Bielik started 7 of his 19 games at CB. Against Barnsley, he moved to DM at half time as Huddlestone went off injured. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Jubbs said:

He played 1 game for Boro in the premier league.

I cannot get all round stats other than goals and assist for his premier league games because stats like those don't go back to 1999-2003...

Bielik played 1 game for U23's because he came off at half time vs Wigan with a slight niggle, then on his return was sent off early doors, so the U23's game was the regain his match fitness. It wasn't at all because he looked "slow and ponderous" for our first team at all, so please don't make things up. Bielik started 7 of his 19 games at CB. Against Barnsley, he moved to DM at half time as Huddlestone went off injured. 

In my opinion he was slow and ponderous and many others on this forum. Hows that made up .  You compared a player with premier league experience who was instrumental to us getting in the playoffs under mac 1 to a kid who has played almost his entire career in League 1 with a number of those games at centre half . I nfact you claim he's better with no basis at all. 

You also ask people to fact check and accuse me of making stuff up when your own data has proved to be highly suspect and rash .

Leaving this one now as it's my day off and you cannot validate your claim in any way so the conversation is totally moot.

[Jubbs]

12 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

You also ask people to fact check and accuse me of making stuff up when your own data has proved to be highly suspect and rash .

My data was provided by Whoscored, you're more than welcome to check it an cross reference with other stats based websites, but I showed Bielik had better stats than Eustace did in his 2 seasons there, also, his stats were even better in League 1.

As for Eustace stats, I used the premier leagues website, to see how many games he'd played in the prem and cross referenced with other websites, which again, backed up the stats. You claimed he had decades of premier league experience yet he played 2 season with Coventry in the prem and only made 1 more appearance in the prem after with Boro, the rest of his career was in the championship.

15 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

kid who has played almost his entire career in League 1

He's pretty much at the start of his career. At the end of Bieliks career, shall we look back and see who had a better career? Bielik has also made appearances for Poland at every international age group, including 2 senior games. Eustace never managed a game at any England age group. 

 

17 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

you cannot validate your claim

I validated my claims by backing it up with stats. If you think Bielik was "slow and ponderous" then I don't know what games you were watching. People like to criticise him highly because he's our record signing, for me, his potential and what I've seen so far (which has been backed up by stats) has shown he was worth the fee, in my opinion. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Jubbs said:

My data was provided by Whoscored, you're more than welcome to check it an cross reference with other stats based websites, but I showed Bielik had better stats than Eustace did in his 2 seasons there, also, his stats were even better in League 1.

As for Eustace stats, I used the premier leagues website, to see how many games he'd played in the prem and cross referenced with other websites, which again, backed up the stats. You claimed he had decades of premier league experience yet he played 2 season with Coventry in the prem and only made 1 more appearance in the prem after with Boro, the rest of his career was in the championship.

He's pretty much at the start of his career. At the end of Bieliks career, shall we look back and see who had a better career? Bielik has also made appearances for Poland at every international age group, including 2 senior games. Eustace never managed a game at any England age group. 

 

I validated my claims by backing it up with stats. If you think Bielik was "slow and ponderous" then I don't know what games you were watching. People like to criticise him highly because he's our record signing, for me, his potential and what I've seen so far (which has been backed up by stats) has shown he was worth the fee, in my opinion. 

So he's at the start of his career, no premier league experience and has almost entirely  played in League one.  One of those years as a squad player at Walsall.  But he's a better player than Eustace and can do more.

Your last sentence is opinion only and how you can say he's shown he's worth 10 million-regardless of how he performs going forward- is beyond incredulous.  Your stats show nothing - a broad basis of players where one played an entirely different position for half of it and different amounts of games.

I Can't see that Eustace ever had to make the step down to League 1 till he was player manager and winding down with his slippers on. Bielik has played pretty much his whole career so far there and has a lot to to prove to be as effective as Eustace in the midfield role .

 

 

 

[Jubbs]

3 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

no premier league experience and has almost entirely  played in League one

He has 19 games in the championship and in my opinion, has been better than Eustace was in both seasons. Don't forget, Eustace also played in a very good team, he was made to look better because of the players around him. He was awful in his first loan with us, which, was played alongside a poor team.

5 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I Can't see that Eustace ever had to make the step down to League 1 till he was player manager

PLEASE DO FACT CHECKS. John Eustace had a loan spell in 2006/07 season to League 2 Hereford United.