Cardiff City (A) - Matchday Thread

[JfR]

30 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

They were top scorers in 3/6 seasons he was there, scoring 103 goals in 34 games during the 12/13 season. So if that's defensive I'd take it

Shame it was Dick Advocaat in charge that season.

Still though, Cocu's PSV scored, in the league, 395 goals in 170 games during his time there, 2.3 goals per game.
They were the highest scoring team in the league during his 5 years there, scoring more than Ajax's 387 and much more than Feyenoord's 356 over the same period.
They also took the most shots over that period, recording over 18 shots per game on average.

[Alph]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Think that is pretty fair. I do think things might look better after Cocu has had a full pre season and can maybe add a couple of players he wants to the squad. I think he has played a really difficult hand reasonably well under the circumstances.

Yeah I agree

I don't think he's done a bad job. 

Just looking at what other teams do and what we have done in the past I think there are obvious shortcomings. I don't think there's anything wrong with being frustrated that rather than try a few ugly tricks we would rather backtrack 40 yards. At first, no problem. But as you see games pass by and a lack of chances, goals and points then I think it's natural to say 'hey Mr Cocu this is a bit negative'. 

I'm sure we are not alone in wanting faster, better and stronger players. 

For me its kind of like the almost moments of Nigel Clough. Where you're thinking it's good but if you'd just... if you can just... 

I think this Derby side, tired and weakened as it is, could do little bit more. I think they played it safe and ultimately safely got brushed out the play offs. Quietly and neatly put aside. I didn't expect to make it but the manner in which we lost to Cardiff, drew with Forest and lost to WBA has been disappointing. 

[Ramarena]

One thing I really didn't understand (and it maybe a more minor thing.......but still) was our goal kicks towards the end of the game. The CB's came to the sides of the box and the Cardiff players covered them. Roos then played the ball out to them, they played it back as they were closed down and Roos hit it long under pressure. 

Why?

Why not play it long in the first place if that's what your going to do anyway as you can see your outlet is covered?

It just seemed so needlessly risky given our recent errors in defence and didn't make any sense!

We didn't seem to want to take those risks in the attacking third.

 

[Jourdan]

As a club and as a team, we need two to three years.

We need to assess how we can improve both on and off the pitch, how we can freshen things up and break old habits, and how we can build something for the future.

We have capable players and a capable manager, but I don’t see the X factor. I don’t see a catalyst, a spark, a driving force coming from anywhere.

I just expect more of the same frustration and disappointment we have experienced in the last four games to surface yet again.

We need to take the positives from the last two seasons - the emergence of Bogle, Lowe, Sibley and Bird - and slowly start building from there.

Te Wierik might be the next building block, but I think given the finances, it will take three or four windows to really put an exciting and well balanced squad together.

I’d definitely say next season there is no danger of us getting promoted. There is simply too much to fix and not enough time or money to do such transformative surgery.

[OoooMarkWright]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

As a club and as a team, we need two to three years.

We need to assess how we can improve both on and off the pitch, how we can freshen things up and break old habits, and how we can build something for the future.

We have capable players and a capable manager, but I don’t see the X factor. I don’t see a catalyst, a spark, a driving force coming from anywhere.

I just expect more of the same frustration and disappointment we have experienced in the last four games to surface yet again.

We need to take the positives from the last two seasons - the emergence of Bogle, Lowe, Sibley and Bird - and slowly start building from there.

Te Wierik might be the next building block, but I think given the finances, it will take three or four windows to really put an exciting and well balanced squad together.

I’d definitely say next season there is no danger of us getting promoted. There is simply too much to fix and not enough time or money to do such transformative surgery.

I’m sorry but I don’t buy into this ‘we need 2-3 years to build before going up’ talk. We are probably 3 players short at the moment. Not a massive rebuilding job. Half the championship could say that. We could easily make the play offs next season. 

Yes, we need to improve. The areas of the team have been well documented on here, and I agree we lack quality against the top 6, and are a little too safe with our possession. But, we’re going in the right direction compared to earlier in the season. Promotion is about momentum, luck and consistency. Once that juggernaut gets going it’s difficult to stop. Next year could be that year. If the earlier shenanigans hadn’t have happened, I think we’d have been top 6 this year. Fine margins. We’re not a million miles off and with a few good additions anything is possible in this league.

[Alph]

I agree Jourdan. 

I do enjoy watching the young players too. Just don't like getting beat and not having a good go. 

Some of the football deserves rewarding with goals but if we don't have the killer instinct then it won't feel rewarding to the fans. 

Be like having 11 Will Hughes' 

It can change quickly in this tight league though. One Mitrovic, one Taraabt, one Pukki... it can just lift a team from midtable to top 4. Sometimes a cheap gamble from Algeria or some PL player that just wants some game time. 

[Jourdan]

2 minutes ago, enachops said:

I’m sorry but I don’t buy into this ‘we need 2-3 years to build before going up’ talk. We are probably 3 players short at the moment. Not a massive rebuilding job. Half the championship could say that. We could easily make the play offs next season. 

Yes, we need to improve. The areas of the team have been well documented on here, and I agree we lack quality against the top 6, and are a little too safe with our possession. But, we’re going in the right direction compared to earlier in the season. Promotion is about momentum, luck and consistency. Once that juggernaut gets going it’s difficult to stop. Next year could be that year. If the earlier shenanigans hadn’t have happened, I think we’d have been top 6 this year. Fine margins. We’re not a million miles off and with a few good additions anything is possible in this league.

Sure, if we want to go up by any means necessary, then yes next year could be the year.

But if we want to build a balanced and evolved team, it will take some time.

Look at some of our key players.

Rooney and Martin are our most intelligent players but physically they can’t cope with the pace and demands of regular Championship football, so their influence will only dwindle more and more.

Lawrence and Waghorn are good, solid Championship players but too inconsistent to really drive the team to greater heights.

Bielik, Holmes, Marriott should be part of the next cycle but there are question marks over them because they can’t be relied upon because of their injury records.

We have some good individuals but as a team, it’s built on very fragile ground.

[DCFC Kicks]

46 minutes ago, JfR said:

Shame it was Dick Advocaat in charge that season.

Still though, Cocu's PSV scored, in the league, 395 goals in 170 games during his time there, 2.3 goals per game.
They were the highest scoring team in the league during his 5 years there, scoring more than Ajax's 387 and much more than Feyenoord's 356 over the same period.
They also took the most shots over that period, recording over 18 shots per game on average.

All we need now are players like Mertens, Wijnaldum and Depay and we'll be fine?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

42 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

One thing I really didn't understand (and it maybe a more minor thing.......but still) was our goal kicks towards the end of the game. The CB's came to the sides of the box and the Cardiff players covered them. Roos then played the ball out to them, they played it back as they were closed down and Roos hit it long under pressure. 

Why?

Why not play it long in the first place if that's what your going to do anyway as you can see your outlet is covered?

It just seemed so needlessly risky given our recent errors in defence and didn't make any sense!

We didn't seem to want to take those risks in the attacking third.

 

I think there is a desire to keep possession or at least not give it away with a punt downfield. I agree, when Cardiff players are covering it doesn’t seem to make sense apart from if we are looking to do a quick pass and move between Roos and the defenders which would take out the Cardiff attackers and start an attack. 

[Jourdan]

20 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I agree Jourdan. 

I do enjoy watching the young players too. Just don't like getting beat and not having a good go. 

Some of the football deserves rewarding with goals but if we don't have the killer instinct then it won't feel rewarding to the fans. 

Be like having 11 Will Hughes' 

It can change quickly in this tight league though. One Mitrovic, one Taraabt, one Pukki... it can just lift a team from midtable to top 4. Sometimes a cheap gamble from Algeria or some PL player that just wants some game time. 

This is a good point.

It is a very tight league and it always gives you a chance.

And it’s also true that sometimes a new player can be a catalyst for change.

But given our current finances and our recent history with scouting and recruitment, I would not hold out much hope of that player arriving here any time soon, which goes back to my point that the club as a whole needs surgery.

We need to do better both on and off the pitch.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

The match thread appears to have morphed into a bit of a manager thread so thought i'd pop this from Jordan Stewart here out of interest as Cloughs been mentioned a bit.  

Speaking on the Undr The Cosh podcast, Stewart described Clough, who has recently stepped down from the managerial hotseat at Championship side Burton Albion, as just "wanting him out the club" but stated he was never spoken to personally to state any reasons why he was no longer wanted.

 

In the period where Stewart was made to train with the youth team, he mentions that the relationship between himself and Nigel Clough was at an all time low. To purposely rile his manager, he used to "come in in the morning (for training) and park in his space".

 

When asked about Clough's management style, Stewart described Clough as a "dinosaur" and his training sessions as "awful". Stewart stated that he "wasn't sure whether he was trying to replicate his Dad (Brian Clough)" but states "everything about him, I hate". Stewart mentions that he doesn't hate a lot of people in football however the way "he (Clough) treated people and the way he was, I didn't get on one bit with him".

He didn't play me so i hate him and used to steal his parking space. Very adult. Sure that would make him want to play you and convince him you wanted a first team spot.

[Ellafella]

Ironically I was driving by Cardiff tonight just as Rooney was assisting Lee Tomlin to score their winner. All for the best that the p-offs are now unattainable realistically. It will be good to see the back of this season with all the difficulties that the Club has faced. PC is certainly due some better fortune in Season #2 and I’m confident he’ll rise to it. 

[Dimmu]

6 hours ago, Alpha said:

I see the "here come the Cocu Out brigade" type posts

Can't actually see anyone saying anything like that though. 

 

Time for my annual Valakari-post, you think?

It's a summer after all, I'm used to type it in July. 

[Dimmu]

I fell asleep after their first one. It is good to know I need less comfy armchair for next season...

Please enlighten me. This thread is full of comments how Cardiff has been poor/average. At the same time, Roos had excellent game and Clarke was MoM? Sounds bit contradictory. 

[ossieram]

How many would have taken midtable after our start to the season and the car crash fiasco?

Give Cocu a full pre-season and the chance to strengthen the squad and I can seriously seeing us push on next season.

For now, I just want us to kick lumps out of dirty lids on Sunday and end the season with a bang.

[Archied]

We have seen this season evolve with kids blooded and an emphasis on trying to play football with the ball on the ground ,passing and movement being the hold to philosophy at times it’s been slow and frustrating to watch but then at others times it’s been fast and a joy to watch with some games we looked unplayable 

my gripe is why do people decide the slow frustrating version is the way cocu wants us to play and not the very good version we’ve seen in games like Wednesday away?

i can certainly imagine the quality of football he would produce with the right players and time

[NottsRam77]

6 hours ago, Alpha said:

Yeah I agree

I don't think he's done a bad job. 

Just looking at what other teams do and what we have done in the past I think there are obvious shortcomings. I don't think there's anything wrong with being frustrated that rather than try a few ugly tricks we would rather backtrack 40 yards. At first, no problem. But as you see games pass by and a lack of chances, goals and points then I think it's natural to say 'hey Mr Cocu this is a bit negative'. 

I'm sure we are not alone in wanting faster, better and stronger players. 

For me its kind of like the almost moments of Nigel Clough. Where you're thinking it's good but if you'd just... if you can just... 

I think this Derby side, tired and weakened as it is, could do little bit more. I think they played it safe and ultimately safely got brushed out the play offs. Quietly and neatly put aside. I didn't expect to make it but the manner in which we lost to Cardiff, drew with Forest and lost to WBA has been disappointing. 

I didn’t expect or demand promotion this year tbh and our little flirtation with the play offs was a welcome bonus.

if were to achieve anything next season we have to improve defensively one clean sheet on the road and poor defending throughout the campaign means we were never going to achieve anything this year.

is it the players or the tactics ... imo it’s a bit of both, we invite trouble on ourselves at times and then compound matters by moments of crass defending

Im sure cocu is aware of what needs to change players wise I’m hoping by doing so we’re able to cut out the mistakes or stop playing ourselves into trouble 

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, ossieram said:

How many would have taken midtable after our start to the season and the car crash fiasco?

Give Cocu a full pre-season and the chance to strengthen the squad and I can seriously seeing us push on next season.

For now, I just want us to kick lumps out of dirty lids on Sunday and end the season with a bang.

Not sure on the dates but I guess that there will be less time between the end of the current season and the start of the new.  The pre season may well be shortened and I fear we may see a similar side and tactics next year.  Hopefully I’m wrong because this is a mid table squad playing mid table tactics

[LeedsCityRam]

8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

6th for possession. 
24th for final 3rd (action zone in possession).
20th for shots per game. 

Really interesting stats those. Where did you get them from?

I'd also wager we werent that dissimilar last season. We generally created few chances, had a lot of the ball but were dependant on moments of magic from Wilson & Mount.

There's a fundamental problem in the way we attack teams & its been this way for a while now. The best teams in this league (Brentford, Leeds etc) attack as a fluid unit & dont rely on specific individuals to anywhere near the same extent.

[Gone]

8 hours ago, DCFClks said:

maybe not outplaying but at least level between our equalizer and the mistake. considering they were meant to be on unplayable form at the time

We played well for about 15 mins, which we tend to do under Phil. The other 75+ mins were mistake ridden, slow, sideways, backwards possession based football that got us beat 3-1 and could of been 6.