Tribunal Update

[hintonsboots]

19 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Wait....

They didn't re-inspect the stadium? They went off a guy's inspection report from "a number of years ago"?! 

 

What the duck are they even doing?! 

I remember seeing Mr Messenger walking around with a tape measure and clipboard at the BBG. ⚽️?

[StaffsRam]

This past 24 hours....

The EFL shown to be incompetent to ridiculous levels, Steve Gibson thrown under the bus, and Bristol, Barnsley and Forest getting a nice £50k fee each.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

11 minutes ago, Shipley Ram said:

Where did Gibson get this figure from?

On 9 July 2019 MFC’s solicitors wrote to the EFL asserting that the sale of Pride Park had not been at Fair Market Value, and that ‘a sale price of £22,794,520 (i.e. £58,305,480 below the sale price paid)’ was ‘more realistic’

The land was worth more than that in 97

[Cam the Ram]

 

Right @David, I 'm sure you've got the power to, so get changing your username to King David please.

[Day]

I don’t think my post will be approved, but would love to know...

 

[Shuff264]

1 minute ago, Cam the Ram said:

 

Right @David, I 'm sure you've got the power to, so get changing your username to King David please.

Surely has to be "King David"

Can you also change your role from "Admin" to "Clown in Chief"? @David

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

25 minutes ago, David said:

Is this that guy who owns the Launderette in Eastenders on the OTIB? ?

Feel bad, like we and I should be paying rent whilst living in his head. 

Not paying for my room it's painted red and white.  It'll be rent free till he changes it.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

We didn't need to put out a statement really, the published facts of this case do a more than good enough job of demonstrating just how incompetent the EFL have been from start to finish on this one. 

[Comrade 86]

Have Mr Messenger and Mr Popshischopsalot ever been seen in the same room? Asking for a friend...

[alexxxxx]

That was a brilliant read I must say.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

6 minutes ago, David said:

I don’t think my post will be approved, but would love to know...

 

Shouldn't worry he'll read it on here. 

[SaintRam]

25 minutes ago, Shipley Ram said:

Where did Gibson get this figure from?

On 9 July 2019 MFC’s solicitors wrote to the EFL asserting that the sale of Pride Park had not been at Fair Market Value, and that ‘a sale price of £22,794,520 (i.e. £58,305,480 below the sale price paid)’ was ‘more realistic’

 

24 minutes ago, David said:

Plucked out his rear end

Might be able to solve this riddle;

Turns out attendance matters; Steve Gibson's obviously unaware and thats why he thinks stadiums like his are worth nothing.

[StaffsRam]

 

12 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

 

Right @David, I 'm sure you've got the power to, so get changing your username to King David please.

Big club? Well, I suppose he at least got that right.

[Shaftesbury Street]

On 08/08/2020 at 08:29, Shaftesbury Street said:

Inflation and the land alone would value it around the 65mill mark.

Add on commercial value from football and other events, the rent value from the businesses attached to the building and the advertising around the ground.

Seems accurate to me. ?‍♂️

How can I get this right (who knows nothing) but an actual stadium valuer get it so so wrong? ?

 

 

 

 

[May Contain Nuts]

4 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

 

Might be able to solve this riddle;

Turns out attendance matters; Steve Gibson's obviously unaware and thats why he thinks stadiums like his are worth nothing.

All those years overstating* our attendances finally came good!

?

(*including ST holders who haven't turned up in the figures)

[RadioactiveWaste]

Seems from the extracts, Mr. Messanger was in the business of trying to get the panel to accept that Pride Park was worth significantly less than the sale price. He attempted to do just that. In doing so he lost his credibility in the eyes of the panel as an actual valuer. 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

A quick summary

• A figure of £74.4m was used in the P&S reports. £81.1m is based on a profits basis, whereas £74.4m is a depreciated replacement cost basis (based on £3k per seat). Both values came from JLL The second is what must be used for P&S, however HMRC would insist on a £81.1m sale. Market rent was assessed to be £4.16m. The club stated 100 days of use reduces this to just £1.14m per annum.
• The EFL felt it should have been £50m. This meant failing the 2018 period by £13m, and 2019 period by £26m [suggests we'll see a massive £40m loss in the 18/19 accounts)
• The club used acceptable UK accounting standards in relation to amortisation. The EFL didn't think it did
• 7000 pages of documents were provided for the hearing, 200 additional pages of written openings and submissions. Certain documents were 'missing' but later revealed by the club. The club commented that the EFL should have revealed more of their own documents, but did not press further.
• Mel stated the EFL have a dislike for him and the club, decribing himself as "and ememy of the EFL state" and the EFL having an axe to grind against him personally
• The EFL's expert valuers failed to present factual evidence. One of the experts was unaware that "there were views in that range that differed from his own". 
• The club felt our amortisation policy more accurately reflected real life player values.
• The EFL thought our amortisation policy meant a value was assigned to a player at the end of a player's contract, with the straight line method adopted to fill in the gaps.
• The club reviews player values every 6 months, which feeds into the amortisation method. Age, injury, squad status among other factors are used. If we felt we wouldn't receive a fee for a player, his estimated recoverable value (ERV) would be adjusted to £0. The ERV is set at the start of a player's final year, and amortisation occurs on a straight-line basis to this point. The residual value is £0 at the end of a player's contract, with amortisation on a straight line basis between the ERV and residual value.
  • Example 1: The club sign a 35 year old for £2.4m on a 4 year deal. There is no ERV so amortisation of £600k every year
  • Example 2: The club sign a 21 year olf for £2.4m on a 4 year deal. The club expect to sell him 3 years in to his contract for at least £2m which becomes the ERV. £133,333 amortisation for 3 years, £2m in final year.
  • Example 3: Player from example 2 suffers a bad injury after 1 year. The ERV is immediately set to £0, with the remaining amount of £2.267m being amortised over those final 3 years. [This example being Thorne? I wonder what this means for Bielik]
• The club should have detailed the amortisation more clearly, mainly with respect of the ERV
• it was felt the club stuck to the policy
• Mel was looking to increase club revenue by converting the stadium into a multi-purpose stadium with a roof. Investors didn't want to with it being owned by the club, which led to the club selling the stadium. Around the same time,  the club submitted projected P&S accounts  with a total P&S loss of £37.675m (below the limit). This was later revised to £43.927m due to a discrepancy in the 15/16 submission, presumably a due to the change of FFP rules. This meant we tried to sell players to get back within the limits, and pushed on with the stadium sale, which Mel had already looked into doing.
• JLL initially sent a DRC value of £57.8m. 4 days later a revised valuation was sent to the club of £74.4m, based on 10 years extra of useful life, 5 years extra for maintenance adjustment and a lower depreciation rate.
• The DRC value of £74.4m was based on £3k per seat. They lso stated a high-point construction cost of £3.5k would could have meant an acceptable sale price of £86.1m The EFL then reposnded to the club to say the sale price of £81.1m can now be used for P&S instead as it is an acceptable DRC figure.
• The club were late at filing the 2019 P&S submission and were placed under embargo until the submissions were made. But because we were close to the limits (just under £2m away) we were placed under a different embargo immediately. This remained in place until mid-July 2019
• On 24th May 2019, Gibson went crying to the EFL. [Note: the playoff final was on the 27th]. Gibson cried even more to the EFL's response demanding to know what action would be taken. Boro claimed a sale price of £less than £23m is "more realistic". Gibson cried even more and initiated legal proceeding against the EFL and stated they would press on unless Derby were disciplined.
• EFL attained a stadium value range of £42-50m and seemingly tried to bully the club into restating P&S values. The EFL's valuers used a figure of £1.6-1.95k per seat and valued the land just under 25% less than JLL
• 'EFL executive' may refer to multiple people.

 

More to follow...

[SamUltraRam]

30 minutes ago, Shuff264 said:

Further on, he tried to value based on cost per seat x average attendance not capacity!

Suggesting that Derby would build a new stadium to hold average capacity exactly, as thats what we needed!

This is extraordinary. So on that basis, if 2 people live in a 4 bedroom house then it's worth less than if 6 people live in it.

Thankyou EFL for hiring this mug

[SuperDerbySuperRams]

Enemy of the EFL state ???

[SamUltraRam]

This whole thing shows so much incompetence from the EFL that they deserve to be sued.

No forget that, they deserve to be replaced by PL2. Over to you Mel