europia Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 minute ago, RamNut said: Neither Derby, nor sheff we’d, nor Birmingham have been profligate in the transfer market. What we are really being punished for is for buying badly. For buying players we couldn’t sell on. Very good point. Not then a case of financial mismanagement, just bad football management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Abu Derby said: Can’t see Phil staying around if we start next season on -12 points or worse. Or Rooney. I'd be totally amazed (and seriously disappointed) if he left for that reason - think he'd see it as an even bigger challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: That is what I have always assumed too, not sure if there is any more exempt expenditure in club accounts or not. I can only remember charity and women’s football as the other exclusions. Both of these are also outside of the club accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Stumbled across this ‘essay’. It says there are 3 tests regarding passing P&S. If I’ve understood correctly, this is the summary... Test 1 Sum of profit/loss from last two set of accounts at companies house. No exclusions. Make a profit over these seasons and you skip test 2. Fail and you move to test 2. Test 2 Last 2 sets of accounts, plus projected accounts for the current season, minus exclusions. Max loss to be £15m Exclusions: - depreciation of stadium costs. - cost of community football. - cost of women’s football. - cost of youth football. Fail this test and the club needs to prove it’ll meet the £39m P&S limits for the next 2 seasons. If this looks unlikely, ‘soft sanctions’ can be applied. Pass test 2 and you pass P&S. Test 3 The standard, well-known, £39m losses over 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 5 hours ago, reverendo de duivel said: whining ex steel worker about selling Bamford to meet FFP, for a whole £900k more than they signed him, I'm never listening to Athletico Mince again. I see what you did there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Well I still think efl dont have leg to stand they signed off plus mel checked with them if he can do this. And next thing banker gibson kicking off and all sudden we done something wrong. God I hope boro go down this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I expected the accounts to be at Companies House by today. As they aren't, I can only assume we're waiting for the hearing verdict to be reached first. I don't see why that would prevent us from filing our accounts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: I expected the accounts to be at Companies House by today. As they aren't, I can only assume we're waiting for the hearing verdict to be reached first. I don't see why that would prevent us from filing our accounts though. My guess is having the piles of beans one way suits us but we might have to have the pile of beans the way EFL wants so just needing a clarification before submitting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: My guess is having the piles of beans one way suits us but we might have to have the pile of beans the way EFL wants so just needing a clarification before submitting them. The accounts sent to Companies House will be different to the P&S reports, and shouldn't be any different to what they were at the end of the relevant financial period (30 June 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 12 hours ago, B4ev6is said: Well I still think efl dont have leg to stand they signed off plus mel checked with them if he can do this. And next thing banker gibson kicking off and all sudden we done something wrong. God I hope boro go down this season. This. Especially that last bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: The accounts sent to Companies House will be different to the P&S reports, and shouldn't be any different to what they were at the end of the relevant financial period (30 June 2019) Any thoughts on why they may not have been submitted yet? I don't buy any suggestions it's down to Covid 19. Every company has been given longer to file their accounts and ours are still overdue unlike EVERY other championship club. I feel it must be something to do with the hearing. Wednesday haven't filed theirs either but I seem to recall they have until the end of July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Any thoughts on why they may not have been submitted yet? I don't buy any suggestions it's down to Covid 19. Every company has been given longer to file their accounts and ours are still overdue unlike EVERY other championship club. I feel it must be something to do with the hearing. Wednesday haven't filed theirs either but I seem to recall they have until the end of July. It's almost certainly due to the hearing now, I just don't understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: It's almost certainly due to the hearing now, I just don't understand why. Contingent liabilities could be preventing the auditors report being signed off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 20 hours ago, Abu Derby said: Can’t see Phil staying around if we start next season on -12 points or worse. Or Rooney. He doesn’t strike me as a quitter. I’d be very surprised if he walked away especially over Rooney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKWORTHRAM Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 People still seem to be comparing our situation and Wednesdays situation the same. To me Sheffield Wednesday could be in trouble no matter how much they argue that they have done nothing wrong. Selling a stadium and then putting the sale in the previous years figures is wrong surely? Or is it not just this black and white? I honestly don't understand how we've had things signed off by the EFL. Because they have signed this off and said all is ok. We have then gone on to sign Bielik for £7 million (rising to 10). If they had said from the start. No you can't do that. Then we wouldn't have spent the money we have since then. They can't sign it off and then go oh hang on a minute you can't do that. It's a bit like asking for a loan "Look my car is broken. Can I borrow £2000 so I can get a new car. I can't pay you back straight away though. I can only borrow it if I can pay you back over 2 years" "Yeah no problem we can lend you £2000. And you can pay it back over 2 years" "Brilliant" Sign all the documents Then after you've bought the car they say. "Actually we need you to pay it back over 2 months" "But you signed off on 2 years. The only reason I was able to borrow that money was because you said I could pay it back over 2 years" "Well we made a mistake. It's 2 months. If not we'll take you to court and fine you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: The accounts sent to Companies House will be different to the P&S reports, and shouldn't be any different to what they were at the end of the relevant financial period (30 June 2019) Maybe we're waiting to see if the EFL accept our residual values system? I wonder if we will need to go with straight line amortisation if found guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 46 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: Maybe we're waiting to see if the EFL accept our residual values system? I wonder if we will need to go with straight line amortisation if found guilty? The same system we’ve been using and approved to use since 15/16 ? that’s all it can be. But, I don’t see why we can’t submit our accounts using our current amortisation method, then hold off on submitting our adjusted losses to the EFL for P&S purposes. Surely they’re two separate documents (as one’s official and the other isn’t), so different amortisation methods can be used? At least temporarily anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 19 hours ago, RamNut said: Neither Derby, nor sheff we’d, nor Birmingham have been profligate in the transfer market. What we are really being punished for is for buying badly. For buying players we couldn’t sell on. Should have done what Wolves did Create a closed market for players not accessible by any other Championship club Appoint a manager who wouldn't otherwise have considered going to any other Championship club Sign players well above Championship quality for fees below their worth Pay the players a weekly wage well below what they would otherwise be earning Keep FFP losses in check by tying up and deferring over £20m worth of payments in promotion bonuses and future transfer fees based upon promotion ...actually, we shouldn't have done that, because it was a ducking disgrace and gave them an unfair advantage over everyone else, completely against the spirit of the competition. If other clubs had been stupid enough to spend £4m on Nick Blackman they were free to do so! We may have messed up, and we're having to find workarounds to stop us paying for our mistakes, but at no point were we trying to gain an unfair advantage over anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 22 hours ago, Abu Derby said: Can’t see Phil staying around if we start next season on -12 points or worse. Or Rooney. Nah can't see that Rooney already knows he's not getting Premier League football with us - Cos he has only another year on his contract - Chance are he'll be more focused on coaching next year too - It'll just be a question of whether he'd stay after that as a coach Cocu will stay - I think/hope he sees this as a project - Think enough bonkers stuff went on this year and he's never shown any sign of giving in (unless that beard indicated something?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Coconut said: Should have done what Wolves did Create a closed market for players not accessible by any other Championship club Appoint a manager who wouldn't otherwise have considered going to any other Championship club Sign players well above Championship quality for fees below their worth Pay the players a weekly wage well below what they would otherwise be earning Keep FFP losses in check by tying up and deferring over £20m worth of payments in promotion bonuses and future transfer fees based upon promotion ...actually, we shouldn't have done that, because it was a ducking disgrace and gave them an unfair advantage over everyone else, completely against the spirit of the competition. If other clubs had been stupid enough to spend £4m on Nick Blackman they were free to do so! We may have messed up, and we're having to find workarounds to stop us paying for our mistakes, but at no point were we trying to gain an unfair advantage over anyone else. Wolves have the same defence we have for selling the stadium though - they've done nothing against the rules. We can't say what Wolves did gave them an unfair advantage when we spent so much money that we had to sell the stadium to stay within ffp. Wolves, us, Forest, etc are all just using different methods to try and circumvent the FFP rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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