metalsheep02 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: Not really. It's only a quarter of the squad who will be regulars in the squad, with just 3 starting most games. Can I start by saying thanks for your clear and informative posts. Mel has been clear that it is 50% of the starting line-up, rather than squad. https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/extra-pressure-mel-morris-outlines-4182952 Now that is ambiguous as you can't really have 5 1/2 academy graduates in the 11 so presumably that have worked out some target like 253 starts over the championship season. It may also be that it is more an aspiration rather than a firm target. I can see your later post on how we could easily get to 5 starters but even that would not be enough against the stated target, sell any one of those 5 and it becomes a real stretch as you are introducing 1 or 2 who have yet to break into the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: So basically you feel that a new keeper, CH and winger will be enough next season to have us competing for Top 6? Can't say I do. Edit: but I think that might be all we get. Still too much youth and to little real cover rather than shoe-ins. Yes I do. Only 10 points to make up next season. How many points have we dropped from silly mistakes? Just look at the penalties.. Penalties missed Waghorn vs Swansea = 2 points Waghorn vs West Brom = 2 points* Penalties conceded West Brom = 2 points* Cardiff = 2 points QPR = 2 points Charlton = 1 point Boro = 2 points *same game 11 points lost just from the penalty spot. Then add in the silly intercepted pass-backs, the OGs, etc... Add in losing our captain early in the season, Wisdom getting stabbed, Rooney only available for the 2nd half of the season... We don't need to change much to have a serious attempt at making top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Yes I do. Only 10 points to make up next season. How many points have we dropped from silly mistakes? Just look at the penalties..We don't need to change much to have a serious attempt at making top 6. I think that will be Cocu's toughest job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said: Can I start by saying thanks for your clear and informative posts. Mel has been clear that it is 50% of the starting line-up, rather than squad. https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/extra-pressure-mel-morris-outlines-4182952 Now that is ambiguous as you can't really have 5 1/2 academy graduates in the 11 so presumably that have worked out some target like 253 starts over the championship season. It may also be that it is more an aspiration rather than a firm target. I can see your later post on how we could easily get to 5 starters but even that would not be enough against the stated target, sell any one of those 5 and it becomes a real stretch as you are introducing 1 or 2 who have yet to break into the first team. The first reference to 50% that I could find was September 2015, here. At the bottom it reads: "My goal over the next five years is that at least 50 per cent of our first team will have academy players in it. That’s just one player each year and we are there.” One player each year for 5 years to me would suggest 5 starters. Although at the time we did still have Hendrick, Grant, Hughes, Hanson in the squad that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Curtains said: Fair enough. But you need a strong bench. To be honest it’s all ifs and buts. Look how many said Lampard would fail at Chelsea He will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Archied said: He will He’ll win the F.A. Cup first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 minute ago, RamNut said: He’ll win the F.A. Cup first. That’s failure at chelsea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Just now, Archied said: That’s failure at chelsea Oh and arsenal will beat them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Archied said: Oh and arsenal will beat them too You been drinking mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, metalsheep02 said: Can I start by saying thanks for your clear and informative posts. Mel has been clear that it is 50% of the starting line-up, rather than squad. https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/extra-pressure-mel-morris-outlines-4182952 Now that is ambiguous as you can't really have 5 1/2 academy graduates in the 11 so presumably that have worked out some target like 253 starts over the championship season. It may also be that it is more an aspiration rather than a firm target. I can see your later post on how we could easily get to 5 starters but even that would not be enough against the stated target, sell any one of those 5 and it becomes a real stretch as you are introducing 1 or 2 who have yet to break into the first team. I think even from the language he's used in that article it was always a 'vision' rather than a specific requirement for next season - It's like Kennedy announcing they'd put a man on the moon by the end of the decade - It makes everyone focus on development and helps give players the confidence that there will be a route to the first team for them - Which isn't the case at a lot of clubs - It's all very well going to Chelsea or Man City for the money and players around you but then you might spend half your career out on loan Klopp said recently he wants a whole team produced from their academy - I see Morris's talk as being much the same - I very very much doubt he puts pressure on Cocu to pick them though - It's just an indication of the quality levels he expects the academy to be producing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 39 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I think even from the language he's used in that article it was always a 'vision' rather than a specific requirement for next season - It's like Kennedy announcing they'd put a man on the moon by the end of the decade - It makes everyone focus on development and helps give players the confidence that there will be a route to the first team for them - Which isn't the case at a lot of clubs - It's all very well going to Chelsea or Man City for the money and players around you but then you might spend half your career out on loan Klopp said recently he wants a whole team produced from their academy - I see Morris's talk as being much the same - I very very much doubt he puts pressure on Cocu to pick them though - It's just an indication of the quality levels he expects the academy to be producing It's just common sense really. If you're spending circa £6m per annum on running a Cat 1 academy, especially in the Championship, you either need one first teamer a year from it, or several players not quite up to our standard you can sell to make it worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Yes I do. Only 10 points to make up next season. How many points have we dropped from silly mistakes? Just look at the penalties.. Penalties missed Waghorn vs Swansea = 2 points Waghorn vs West Brom = 2 points* Penalties conceded West Brom = 2 points* Cardiff = 2 points QPR = 2 points Charlton = 1 point Boro = 2 points *same game 11 points lost just from the penalty spot. Then add in the silly intercepted pass-backs, the OGs, etc... Add in losing our captain early in the season, Wisdom getting stabbed, Rooney only available for the 2nd half of the season... We don't need to change much to have a serious attempt at making top 6. Do you choose to ignore the last minute goals which won us points when doing this or take them for granted? The league doesn't like, for every point lost, there is a point gained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, rammieib said: Do you choose to ignore the last minute goals which won us points when doing this or take them for granted? The league doesn't like, for every point lost, there is a point gained. I don’t follow your point? It doesn’t seem to be related to the point I was making. A very minor improvement(s) (diving in to tackles in the area, scoring penalties) would see a big upturn in our results and points. Enough points to be in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Does everyone else see recent posts have been made to this thread and excitedly look thinking there may actually be an update on the tribunal? Should know better by now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: I don’t follow your point? It doesn’t seem to be related to the point I was making. A very minor improvement(s) (diving in to tackles in the area, scoring penalties) would see a big upturn in our results and points. Enough points to be in the playoffs. Giving penalties away can be a sign that you are under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipley Ram Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, CBRammette said: Does everyone else see recent posts have been made to this thread and excitedly look thinking there may actually be an update on the tribunal? Should know better by now ? Not much of an update but a bit more information about all three cases. The EFL are useless. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/20/relegated-clubs-could-earn-reprieve-amid-championship-chaos-wigan-sheffield-wednesday-Derby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: September 2015 "My goal over the next five years is that at least 50 per cent of our first team will have academy players in it. That’s just one player each year and we are there." Then a couple months ago he reiterated the target of half the starting 11 being from the academy. 3 are almost nailed on starters. With another 2 regular starters (used in rotation) and a few others such as Buchanan and Whittaker getting a few games. Playing 5 for the sake of playing at least 5 in every game is too extreme and will not happen. But, a significant number of games will see Mel's 5 academy starters. Close enough in my opinion We could field the 5 star academy graduates: *New GK*, Bogle, te Wierik, *Clarke*, Lowe, Bird, Rooney, Knight, Sibley, Lawrence, Martin ... and still have a bench of: Roos, Wisdom, Forsyth, Evans, Shinnie, Holmes, *New Winger*, Waghorn, Marriott To me that looks like a very strong bench, and even excludes Davies and Bielik as senior members of the team - assuming Carson, Malone, Jozefzoon and Bennett are off If we hadn't sold Hughes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 23 minutes ago, CBRammette said: Does everyone else see recent posts have been made to this thread and excitedly look thinking there may actually be an update on the tribunal? Should know better by now ? Is this good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Shipley Ram said: Not much of an update but a bit more information about all three cases. The EFL are useless. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/20/relegated-clubs-could-earn-reprieve-amid-championship-chaos-wigan-sheffield-wednesday-Derby Quote Last week the Barnsley first-team coach, Adam Murray, bemoaned clubs being kept in the dark. “To be where we are in the season and not know the black and white of the situation is strange, to put it nicely,” he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, Shipley Ram said: Not much of an update but a bit more information about all three cases. The EFL are useless. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/20/relegated-clubs-could-earn-reprieve-amid-championship-chaos-wigan-sheffield-wednesday-Derby Think I may have been less worried reading about the other stuff but thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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