Animal is a Ram Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said: Or Gibson changed the EFL's mind as he wasn't happy with the valuation.....regardless of it being nothing whatsoever to do with him. The thought did cross my mind, but we don't know for sure. I went purely on the club statement from a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said: So to cut to the point, why the heck has this process taken so long?? It just casts a shadow over the enjoyment of the game. The EFL would be best remembering it is the fans that ultimately fund them and dragging these situations out turns fans away. A timeline of the Birmingham case from last season: 14 August 2018 - EFL gave notice to Birmingham that it will be going to the Disciplinary Commission. 17 September - EFL introduces new sanctioning guidelines 18 October 2018 - Members of the Disciplinary Commission were appointed - provisional hearing commence date 26 February 2019 21 November 2018 - Birmingham responded to the EFL's charge 20 December 2018 - EFL replied to Birmingham's response (how did this take a month?! ?♂️) 28 January 2019 - The EFL amended charge/reply (I think the former) 8 February 2019 - Witness statements were exchanged 19 February 2019 - A member of the Commission (selected by Birmingham) resigned - hearing adjourned until 18 March 2019 22 February 2019 - Chairman set deadline of 4 March 2019 for a replacement to be found by Birmingham 27 February 2019 - Birmingham found replacement, but EFL wasn't happy with the choice and challenged it. 28 February 2019 - Replacement resigns 11 March 2019 - Chairman appoints replacement on behalf of Birmingham 12 March 2019 - Birmingham challenge decision of chairman making the appointment for them 18 March 2019 - Hearing held. It appears the standard timescale from charge to verdict is 6 months (August to the provisional February date). Given we were charged 16 January 2020, our provisional start date would have been set as mid-July. Wednesday were charged 14 November 2019, so a provisional hearing date of mid-May, which may have been pushed back due the the covid lockdown. Given it appears we were always going to have the hearing in July (after the season had concluded), there most likely was zero intention of the deduction being applied in the 19/20 season, instead with the view of it being the 20/21 season instead - 2 seasons late. It should also be pointed out that in the document regarding the EFL vs BCFC decision, sanctioning guidelines were briefly described. One of which is the time frame. Quote The points deduction is to be applied in the season following the conclusion of the relevant 3 year monitoring period. It is only at the end of that period that any loss in excess of the aggregated threshold can be finally determined, so that the following season is the earliest point at which a points deduction can be applied. However it is clearly desirable that any points deduction should be decided and imposed as early as possible in the relevant season, so that all clubs participating in the Championship understand where they stand in the league. For relegation or promotion outcomes potentially to be affected by a points deduction only announced in the last few weeks of the season is far from ideal. That requires a Disciplinary Commission to be appointed early and a hearing date fixed promptly. Under the procedural rules the chairman does have a power, and a duty, to secure an expeditious hearing, but it is regrettable that in this case, for a number of different reasons, it was not possible for the hearing to be held until 7 months after the charge was brought. Essentially, the guidelines suggest the points deduction (if any) should have been applied in the 18/19 season, and where possible the deduction is to be applied early in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topram Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 12 hours ago, plymouthram said: Birmingham's was'nt weeks and Barnsley Chairman wants all charges heard and dealt with before the season finishes and stated if not, he would take EFL to court. Sheff Wednesday had there’s start a few weeks back they’ve heard nothing yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: A timeline of the Birmingham case from last season: 14 August 2018 - EFL gave notice to Birmingham that it will be going to the Disciplinary Commission. 17 September - EFL introduces new sanctioning guidelines 18 October 2018 - Members of the Disciplinary Commission were appointed - provisional hearing commence date 26 February 2019 21 November 2018 - Birmingham responded to the EFL's charge 20 December 2018 - EFL replied to Birmingham's response (how did this take a month?! ?♂️) 28 January 2019 - The EFL amended charge/reply (I think the former) 8 February 2019 - Witness statements were exchanged 19 February 2019 - A member of the Commission (selected by Birmingham) resigned - hearing adjourned until 18 March 2019 22 February 2019 - Chairman set deadline of 4 March 2019 for a replacement to be found by Birmingham 27 February 2019 - Birmingham found replacement, but EFL wasn't happy with the choice and challenged it. 28 February 2019 - Replacement resigns 11 March 2019 - Chairman appoints replacement on behalf of Birmingham 12 March 2019 - Birmingham challenge decision of chairman making the appointment for them 18 March 2019 - Hearing held. I forgot an important bit: 22 March 2019 - 9 point deduction announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: I wouldn't call it laughable that a club is trying to run its self sustainably, I'd actually call it commendable. Its laughable that Barnsley are blaming our club for there position advising the EFL they haven't had a level playing field when they stripped the better players out on getting promoted instead of investing even a little . Whether Derby are in budget or outside is irrelevant to a club bottom of the table who cut there budget on promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Just my opinion/thought. I have a horrible gut feeling Sheff Weds are guilty and about to get a points deduction, the same as Derby and both will be announced at the same time. What a way to send a message out to clubs than to relegate two big championship clubs by hitting them with a big points deduction. Also if they hit two at the same time, neither club can claim they are being unfairly treated compared to other clubs. I'm just praying our defense is water tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: Just my opinion/thought. I have a horrible gut feeling Sheff Weds are guilty and about to get a points deduction, the same as Derby and both will be announced at the same time. What a way to send a message out to clubs than to relegate two big championship clubs by hitting them with a big points deduction. Also if they hit two at the same time, neither club can claim they are being unfairly treated compared to other clubs. I'm just praying our defense is water tight. We both then resign from the EFL and play each other and lots of friendly games against teams around the world with our own negotiated TV deal - or just from a different championship league inviting who we want from Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Sparkle said: We both then resign from the EFL and play each other and lots of friendly games against teams around the world with our own negotiated TV deal - or just from a different championship league inviting who we want from Europe Sounds good to me. I really hope I'm wrong, and fairly sure given what the club have said, that we should be ok. But something tells me we are about to be shafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: Just my opinion/thought. I have a horrible gut feeling Sheff Weds are guilty and about to get a points deduction, the same as Derby and both will be announced at the same time. What a way to send a message out to clubs than to relegate two big championship clubs by hitting them with a big points deduction. Also if they hit two at the same time, neither club can claim they are being unfairly treated compared to other clubs. I'm just praying our defense is water tight. I live in hope also. However, provided any points deducted is in line with any precedents (12 points for example wouldn’t be considered as “big” but would certainly put Wednesday in the poo) I don’t think anyone would be criticising the EFL too much. On the contrary, they can’t be seen to be treating us and Wednesday too leniently, because we’re two “big championship clubs”, that would be a worse message. If we’re both guilty as charged then it’s our fault not the EFL’s. As you say, let’s hope our defence is watertight or there is sufficient mitigation to minimise the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: Its laughable that Barnsley are blaming our club for there position advising the EFL they haven't had a level playing field when they stripped the better players out on getting promoted instead of investing even a little . Whether Derby are in budget or outside is irrelevant to a club bottom of the table who cut there budget on promotion. they don't have their own ground either because they had to sell it to the council to avoid liquidation or similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: Sounds good to me. I really hope I'm wrong, and fairly sure given what the club have said, that we should be ok. But something tells me we are about to be shafted. Based on everything we have been told I am expecting no sanction against us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Just now, Sparkle said: Based on everything we have been told I am expecting no sanction against us The EFL may be safe from action against them if an independent body declares there is no case to answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Spanish said: The EFL may be safe from action against them if an independent body declares there is no case to answer This is what I suspect is happening. "We did all we could but it was taken out of our hands". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Ideal of the negative results would be that we do not make play offs, we are deducted 12 points this season and we start again with clean sheet next year. Also not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 What ever result they come out with they will try to make it as awkward and as difficult as they can for us. Firstly, because the they want to make an example of us (to others) and secondly to teach us a lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney1991 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 They have no case. They signed off on the stadium sale so they are practically taking themselves to court aswell. It would be like me putting my house up for sale valued at 180k signed off by Estate agents and legal team. Someone buys it values it at 150k and then trying to take me court when I didnt value it someone else did and was signed off by relevant people. They can stick there points deduction where the sun don't shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Ouch I am glad I am not buying I house off you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 On 10/07/2020 at 17:02, reverendo de duivel said: I'm pretty sure the point deduction is only carried forward to next season if you're relegated on merit. Otherwise it's applied this season, regardless of where you finish and how it impacts the final standings. Never seen relegation described as being "on merit" before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 22 hours ago, Big Bad Bob said: Dude, have you ever been there???? If he gets stuffed with Middlesbrough then we will have lost the hearing and that would be punishment ? AS you approach it up the A19 it looks like the Luftwaffe have managed one last bombing raid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 17 minutes ago, DavesaRam said: Never seen relegation described as being "on merit" before! We certainly earned it last time in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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