The Politics Thread 2020

[alexxxxx]

7 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Middlesex and proud.  Still not sure if it exists or not.

Only in cricket

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

2 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Back in the day everyone used to look at Yank TV with envy, all those channels, all that choice.. It’s crap, you are correct our TV is much better.

While I am having a dig at the USA it still amazes me how far they are behind us on so many things. The use of cheques for example, is huge out there, I can’t remember the last time I wrote a cheque.. Contactless payments anywhere are rare. The 3rd world eh.

Totally agree. It is not just US though, continental is not good either. fewer ( but better ) adverts, content, analysis, creativity, you name it Britsh TV is up there on its own.

You are right they are behind on several things, the difference is their spirit of entreprise combined with the cash they can throw at it allows them to catch up and overtake the rest.  

[i-Ram]

31 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Middlesex and proud.  Still not sure if it exists or not.

I think it is known as Gender Neutral these days.  

[Van der MoodHoover]

36 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

South London, SE London, East London are cheaper generally. A lot of jobs do pay more or simply don't exist elsewhere, and the average age in my experience seems to be a lot younger. 

Some support is available for key workers in housing.

People put up with long commutes as well and there are plenty of jobs not in central London.

If you can progress quickly in your career (and crucially are in a couple!) you can definitely get a flat or house. 

What i won't understand is people living out in hugely expensive areas far out of the city in Surrey, Hants, Bucks and commuting in spending thousands on rail season tickets. 

Its basically an affordability/quality of life play but I get that it isn't for everyone.

Annual season ticket from here (Southampton train only, to London) is about £6,500. You need to sort travel to the station or you'll have another 1,500 or so car parking on top.

Its about 1hr 10min journey time - all being well.

An ex-colleague who lived in Wimbledon would spend broadly similar amount of journey time on the district line

But against that, our 5 bed with about 0.5 acre is worth about 750,000 and cost us 570,000. In London, forget it - even if there was one available. And we have country and coast within 20 mins.

[ariotofmyown]

47 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

South London, SE London, East London are cheaper generally. A lot of jobs do pay more or simply don't exist elsewhere, and the average age in my experience seems to be a lot younger. 

Some support is available for key workers in housing.

People put up with long commutes as well and there are plenty of jobs not in central London.

If you can progress quickly in your career (and crucially are in a couple!) you can definitely get a flat or house. 

What i won't understand is people living out in hugely expensive areas far out of the city in Surrey, Hants, Bucks and commuting in spending thousands on rail season tickets. 

I rented with mates in East Dulwich in about 2001-2006 and when I was on under 20k, could go out 3-4 nights week, go on holidays etc. Grads at where I work now start on 30k, share houses in places far worse than East Dulwich and hardly ever go out without drinking at home first.

[ariotofmyown]

9 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Its basically an affordability/quality of life play but I get that it isn't for everyone.

Annual season ticket from here (Southampton train only, to London) is about £6,500. You need to sort travel to the station or you'll have another 1,500 or so car parking on top.

Its about 1hr 10min journey time - all being well.

An ex-colleague who lived in Wimbledon would spend broadly similar amount of journey time on the district line

But against that, our 5 bed with about 0.5 acre is worth about 750,000 and cost us 570,000. In London, forget it - even if there was one available. And we have country and coast within 20 mins.

I'm with you there. When I drive past some of the places in outer London down the A40, can't understand why people live in some of those places.

[Angry Ram]

14 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Its basically an affordability/quality of life play but I get that it isn't for everyone.

Annual season ticket from here (Southampton train only, to London) is about £6,500. You need to sort travel to the station or you'll have another 1,500 or so car parking on top.

Its about 1hr 10min journey time - all being well.

An ex-colleague who lived in Wimbledon would spend broadly similar amount of journey time on the district line

But against that, our 5 bed with about 0.5 acre is worth about 750,000 and cost us 570,000. In London, forget it - even if there was one available. And we have country and coast within 20 mins.

That’s cheap even down your way.. Mind you, you are nearly in France, did you pay in Euros?

We have looked at moving out and sticking some extra in the pension pot when downsizing but as you get older and you can afford it, other things keep you close to HQ.. Elderly parents, kids and grand kids make it hard to move away.

I would move down your way in an instant but she will never go for it.

[Angry Ram]

8 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm with you there. When I drive past some of the places in outer London down the A40, can't understand why people live in some of those places.

Some of those properties on the A40 are a disgrace.. 

[ariotofmyown]

14 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Some of those properties on the A40 are a disgrace.. 

You know that one called Wendover House at all? It looks tragic. Same when you get on north circular from the A40 too. How can people have dual/treble carriageways for a front garden?

[Van der MoodHoover]

12 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

That’s cheap even down your way.. Mind you, you are nearly in France, did you pay in Euros?

We have looked at moving out and sticking some extra in the pension pot when downsizing but as you get older and you can afford it, other things keep you close to HQ.. Elderly parents, kids and grand kids make it hard to move away.

I would move down your way in an instant but she will never go for it.

My wife's from Romsey and her parents are still there so I'm a bit stuck, as she is the local of the 2 sisters. VdM seniors are older but still going strong in Belper. At some point there may have to come a conflab - there are 2 other VdM siblings, one in Sheffield and one just over the border in Leicestershire near to Coalville. However, they're generally skint and bringing up young families of their own. So I expect a tricky conversation at some point....they like it down here, but Mrs VdM would probably hitch a ride to the outer Hebrides if they rocked up as a retirement plan ?

 

It's actually pretty nice round here - you can get royally stung on property....Winchester for example is one of the nations hotspots, but there's a reasonable standard of living to be had here in SO53 as we're midway between Winchester and Southampton (which is not so expensive). On the doorstep of the New Forest etc.....you've gotta like woodland though. Blasted leaves everywhere and I spend weeks every year clearing them.

[Van der MoodHoover]

26 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I'm with you there. When I drive past some of the places in outer London down the A40, can't understand why people live in some of those places.

You seem to get the worst of all worlds  - not particularly cheap, not near to anything attractive for the weekend and poor transport links...…..went to an ex-colleagues 60th up in Ruislip and it was a right travel pain, and the area seemed a bit dowdy to me.

[Angry Ram]

14 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

You know that one called Wendover House at all? It looks tragic. Same when you get on north circular from the A40 too. How can people have dual/treble carriageways for a front garden?

Horrible place..

[Comrade 86]

On 27/03/2020 at 12:22, Van Wolfie said:

How much funding would be required for the NHS not to be stretched by CV?

There isn't a health system in the world that isn't struggling where they have infection rates increasing. 

 

On 27/03/2020 at 14:44, Andicis said:

It's heavily misleading to use the German numbers against ours, see @maxjam's post about it. It means our figures would always be much higher than theirs.

That notwithstanding, we find ourselves with 43,000 NHS job roles unfilled, and the total number of NHS hospital beds in England, including general and acute, mental illness, learning disability, maternity and day-only beds, having more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2018/9. And this while the number of patients treated has increased significantly.

Since 2009 over 125 hospitals have been closed, with many more marked for closure and the manifesto promise from the current government stating they would build 40 new hospitals in 5 years is utter pie in the sky. Or in simple terms, a ducking lie.

Whatever set of numbers we look at, there are some stark and irrefutable facts - the Germans are now undertaking 500,000 Covid-19 tests a week. As of yesterday, we've managed 120,000 IN TOTAL.  And despite warnings of the impending pandemic being given as early as late October 2019, we have doctors and nurses being forced to care for the sick without proper PPE. Nobody is asking for full funding every year in case of a pandemic FFS. What we're asking is for greater investment, fewer care units, rural hospital and A & E  closures and a safe working environment for our NHS staff so that their lives are not unnecessarily put in jeopardy.

Quite rightly, medical staff across the country were near revolt last week over the lack of staff testing, staff shortages and the aforementioned PPS shortage. This combined with the lack of ventilator provisions will result in thousands of unnecessary deaths, many being those brave souls who are treating the sick at grave risk to their own health. It's a ducking disgrace. The wider issues are the result of a sustained NHS closure policy, a policy that it is now too late to reverse where Covid-19 is concerned, but what excuse is acceptable for the lack of testing and PPE.

I've got mates risking their lives because this ducking government can find cash for Boris' ducking garden bridge, or HS2, but not for masks and rubber gloves. And now to top it all, we hear we've missed the opportunity to address critical short supply of ventilators too.

I don't give a flying duck what people's political persuasions are at this point. If this was happening under Corbyn I'd stuill be bloody livid. The fact is though, Johnson and Hancock, much like that orange bunglecunt Trump, are utter ducking clowns who once the dust has settled should be held accountable for their criminal mismanagement of this crisis. Blood on their hands, the ducking lot of them.

Rant over.

 

[jono]

Bloomin eck. The politics  thread has turned into my house, commute times and the north south divide 

pass me a G+T and the cheesy nibbles while I fire up the Quattro ?

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

52 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

 

That notwithstanding, we find ourselves with 43,000 NHS job roles unfilled, and the total number of NHS hospital beds in England, including general and acute, mental illness, learning disability, maternity and day-only beds, having more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2018/9. And this while the number of patients treated has increased significantly.

Since 2009 over 125 hospitals have been closed, with many more marked for closure and the manifesto promise from the current government stating they would build 40 new hospitals in 5 years is utter pie in the sky. Or in simple terms, a ducking lie.

Whatever set of numbers we look at, there are some stark and irrefutable facts - the Germans are now undertaking 500,000 Covid-19 tests a week. As of yesterday, we've managed 120,000 IN TOTAL.  And despite warnings of the impending pandemic being given as early as late October 2019, we have doctors and nurses being forced to care for the sick without proper PPE. Nobody is asking for full funding every year in case of a pandemic FFS. What we're asking is for greater investment, fewer care units, rural hospital and A & E  closures and a safe working environment for our NHS staff so that their lives are not unnecessarily put in jeopardy.

Quite rightly, medical staff across the country were near revolt last week over the lack of staff testing, staff shortages and the aforementioned PPS shortage. This combined with the lack of ventilator provisions will result in thousands of unnecessary deaths, many being those brave souls who are treating the sick at grave risk to their own health. It's a ducking disgrace. The wider issues are the result of a sustained NHS closure policy, a policy that it is now too late to reverse where Covid-19 is concerned, but what excuse is acceptable for the lack of testing and PPE.

I've got mates risking their lives because this ducking government can find cash for Boris' ducking garden bridge, or HS2, but not for masks and rubber gloves. And now to top it all, we hear we've missed the opportunity to address critical short supply of ventilators too.

I don't give a flying duck what people's political persuasions are at this point. If this was happening under Corbyn I'd stuill be bloody livid. The fact is though, Johnson and Hancock, much like that orange bunglecunt Trump, are utter ducking clowns who once the dust has settled should be held accountable for their criminal mismanagement of this crisis. Blood on their hands, the ducking lot of them.

Rant over.

 

Proper rant. Many very good points!

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

And despite warnings of the impending pandemic being given as early as late October 2019, 

Interested to know where you have that information from?

From what I can find, the WHO only became aware of this on 31st December?

[RamNut]

I think we can forgive any government a stuttering response to this crisis, as this is a totally unprecedented situation. People will only heed a warning if they are willing to believe what they are being told. 

On january 20th there were only 200 cases and three deaths in wuhan. Thats about where Derbyshire is now. Three days later the chinese authorities reacted to isolate wuhan. Despite swift action, the virus travelled.

Two months later, and there are 650,000 cases and 30,000 dead. And it still hasn't hit us. These are still early days. There is still a bank holiday feel to the current lockdown, which will surely change over the next two or three weeks as things begin to snowball. We will watch the the numbers rocket as the disease spreads across the uk and the U.S. The makeshift hospitals and the refrigerated mobile morgues will become part of our everyday lives. The next problem to solve will be grim and upsetting. Even after the first wave of viral infection has passed and we are recovering, the future relaxation on movement necessitated by the need to work will trigger further waves of infection. This will go on for months until eventually we take the gamble and inject the untested experimental vaccines. 

If folk are fighting over toilet rolls and chick peas now, i hate to think what will happen as the economy crashes and people lose jobs, incomes and savings.

 

[Norman]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

I think we can forgive any government a stuttering response to this crisis, as this is a totally unprecedented situation. People will only heed a warning if they are willing to believe what they are being told. 

On january 20th there were only 200 cases and three deaths in wuhan. Thats about where Derbyshire is now. Three days later the chinese authorities reacted to isolate wuhan. Despite swift action, the virus travelled.

Two months later, and there are 650,000 cases and 30,000 dead. And it still hasn't hit us. These are still early days. There is still a bank holiday feel to the current lockdown, which will surely change over the next two or three weeks as things begin to snowball. We will watch the the numbers rocket as the disease spreads across the uk and the U.S. The makeshift hospitals and the refrigerated mobile morgues will become part of our everyday lives. The next problem to solve will be grim and upsetting. Even after the first wave of viral infection has passed and we are recovering, the future relaxation on movement necessitated by the need to work will trigger further waves of infection. This will go on for months until eventually we take the gamble and inject the untested experimental vaccines. 

If folk are fighting over toilet rolls and chick peas now, i hate to think what will happen as the economy crashes and people lose jobs, incomes and savings.

 

The government have done a good job in my opinion. The staged lockdown helped all the vital services. It stopped crime, riots etc. 

Logistically, they are keeping the country going until a full lockdown is imposed. 

Yeah, they've messed up on a few decisions. Which country hasn't? They are dealing with a crisis that has no blueprint. 

The economy is hanging on, the country is still running, crime is low, prisons are under control, extra hospitals being temporarily built, people given job and money security. Self-employed were left worrying an extra week, but there must have been some tough decisions taken there. You can't just implement systems overnight. 

It's the public that have let the government down. Yes, questions.over the long term economy and many other complex matters need to be addressed in the coming months, but what more are people expecting of those taking very difficult decisions? 

It's not Boris deciding on everything. It's hundreds and thousands of advisors. One of whicg I built a house for and has been on the breakfast shows. 

I trust him to take decisions on my behalf. He knows his stuff on tropical diseases. He's advising the government at a high level.

The peak is weeks away for us yet, but hopefully now all the major decisions have been implemented, the government will get everything in place logistically and economically and then shut the country down. 

On a side note, we went without PPE and any lock down measures including personal space until this week. You'll be hard pushed to find anyone criticising the response of the government to our fears and needs within the Prison Service, though. 

 

[Norman]

3 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

 

I don't give a flying duck what people's political persuasions are at this point. If this was happening under Corbyn I'd stuill be bloody livid. The fact is though, Johnson and Hancock, much like that orange bunglecunt Trump, are utter ducking clowns who once the dust has settled should be held accountable for their criminal mismanagement of this crisis. Blood on their hands, the ducking lot of them.

Rant over.

 

Yeah, but you do. Don't lie. 

What about the thousands of advisors? Do they have blood on their hands. Or is it just Boris because you don't like him or some of his policies before any of this happened. 

Please don't reply in a manner in which you wouldn't normally speak, please.

Nobody starts an actual sentence with 'notwithstanding' . 

Turns out that Barnier is responsible for spreading it to Boris. Bloody EU.

[AndyinLiverpool]

6 minutes ago, Norman said:

Yeah, but you do. Don't lie. 

What about the thousands of advisors? Do they have blood on their hands. Or is it just Boris because you don't like him or some of his policies before any of this happened. 

Please don't reply in a manner in which you wouldn't normally speak, please.

Nobody starts an actual sentence with 'notwithstanding' . 

Turns out that Barnier is responsible for spreading it to Boris. Bloody EU.

I do