The Politics Thread 2020

[Norman]

Just now, AndyinLiverpool said:

I do

Notwithstanding yourself. 

And I'm not surprised. 

[Uptherams]

8 hours ago, Norman said:

The government have done a good job in my opinion. 

 

 

The polling reflects this. 

[GboroRam]

8 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

The polling reflects this. 

Chequered for me. Missed some opportunities - should have been better prepared with PPE, shouldn't have ignored the EU purchase of ventilators, shouldn't have left the opportunity for everyone to go out for one last party before the lockdown - but mostly took action when we were left with no option other than disaster. 

It's clear that tests are available to those deemed important enough, like Boris and Prince Charles. I'd be shocked if tests hadn't been done on the entire Royal family and all cabinet ministers, if not all MPs. I don't even think it's a bad idea - but why can't they be honest about it? 

[Uptherams]

5 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Chequered for me. Missed some opportunities - should have been better prepared with PPE, shouldn't have ignored the EU purchase of ventilators, shouldn't have left the opportunity for everyone to go out for one last party before the lockdown - but mostly took action when we were left with no option other than disaster. 

It's clear that tests are available to those deemed important enough, like Boris and Prince Charles. I'd be shocked if tests hadn't been done on the entire Royal family and all cabinet ministers, if not all MPs. I don't even think it's a bad idea - but why can't they be honest about it? 

 I've been closely following a dozen or so UK companies that are having orders placed by multiple governments for antibody tests, etc. You can't just expect these things to appear in their millions, overnight. The same applies to PPE, Ventilators and everything else. Should we also be criticising the government for only just setting up field hospitals, even though hospitals are not yet at capacity? 

Why not be honest that tests are available and conducted on those members of society? You already know the answer to that. 

I'm afraid your post comes across exactly like those people who were screeching where is Boris in the days before measures were announced. As if he was on holiday in the countryside and not, in fact, doing his job and preparing round the clock for what was about to come.  

[Angry Ram]

31 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Chequered for me. Missed some opportunities - should have been better prepared with PPE, shouldn't have ignored the EU purchase of ventilators, shouldn't have left the opportunity for everyone to go out for one last party before the lockdown - but mostly took action when we were left with no option other than disaster. 

It's clear that tests are available to those deemed important enough, like Boris and Prince Charles. I'd be shocked if tests hadn't been done on the entire Royal family and all cabinet ministers, if not all MPs. I don't even think it's a bad idea - but why can't they be honest about it? 

Was never going to be perfect, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I would give him 9/10 at the moment, I think he is being as honest as he dare in some things. The message is ramping up, I noticed that once people were not doing the right thing by choice the more serious side of the symptoms started to get reported.. Prior to that it was all, most will get mild symptoms blah blah blah.. No urgency as a result and now those harsher facts are being leaked out, people are listening.. It all does not have to be said at a press conference, they have to carefully control information if they want to flatten curves etc.

I am pretty sure it’s not just Boris racking up at 5PM with no careful thought out script.. We’ve all seen he is a liability when left to his own sound bites. I have not seen any foot in mouth instances yet. 
 

I know some on here will just hate for the sake of hate but he’s walked into a poo storm here and is coping well.  This next comment won’t go down well but Bar Thatcher we are lucky it’s him and none of the previous incumbents.. Left or right.

[i-Ram]

12 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

 

That notwithstanding, we find ourselves with 43,000 NHS job roles unfilled, and the total number of NHS hospital beds in England, including general and acute, mental illness, learning disability, maternity and day-only beds, having more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2018/9. And this while the number of patients treated has increased significantly.

Since 2009 over 125 hospitals have been closed, with many more marked for closure and the manifesto promise from the current government stating they would build 40 new hospitals in 5 years is utter pie in the sky. Or in simple terms, a ducking lie.

Whatever set of numbers we look at, there are some stark and irrefutable facts - the Germans are now undertaking 500,000 Covid-19 tests a week. As of yesterday, we've managed 120,000 IN TOTAL.  And despite warnings of the impending pandemic being given as early as late October 2019, we have doctors and nurses being forced to care for the sick without proper PPE. Nobody is asking for full funding every year in case of a pandemic FFS. What we're asking is for greater investment, fewer care units, rural hospital and A & E  closures and a safe working environment for our NHS staff so that their lives are not unnecessarily put in jeopardy.

Quite rightly, medical staff across the country were near revolt last week over the lack of staff testing, staff shortages and the aforementioned PPS shortage. This combined with the lack of ventilator provisions will result in thousands of unnecessary deaths, many being those brave souls who are treating the sick at grave risk to their own health. It's a ducking disgrace. The wider issues are the result of a sustained NHS closure policy, a policy that it is now too late to reverse where Covid-19 is concerned, but what excuse is acceptable for the lack of testing and PPE.

I've got mates risking their lives because this ducking government can find cash for Boris' ducking garden bridge, or HS2, but not for masks and rubber gloves. And now to top it all, we hear we've missed the opportunity to address critical short supply of ventilators too.

I don't give a flying duck what people's political persuasions are at this point. If this was happening under Corbyn I'd stuill be bloody livid. The fact is though, Johnson and Hancock, much like that orange bunglecunt Trump, are utter ducking clowns who once the dust has settled should be held accountable for their criminal mismanagement of this crisis. Blood on their hands, the ducking lot of them.

Rant over.

 

Got any evidence that the Government have at any stage overruled scientific and medical advice since 1 January?

Got any evidence that the Government have been unable to, or refused to, allocate monies to purchase masks and PPE since 1 January.

Got any other specific knowledge or intel into the availability of ventilators over the next few weeks, when they will actually be needed?

A rant you gave us, thanks - no where near Alpha quality though. In fact it came over as a party political broadcast despite your tame inclusion of Jez at the end:

I don't give a flying duck what people's political persuasions are at this point. If this was happening under Corbyn I'd still be bloody livid. The fact is though, Johnson and Hancock, much like that orange bunglecunt Trump, are utter ducking clowns who once the dust has settled should be held accountable for their criminal mismanagement of this crisis. Blood on their hands, the ducking lot of them.

If you had simply posted that Johnson and that orange bunglecunt Trump are utter clowns you would have been more true to yourself. I might even have given you a like.

[ariotofmyown]

12 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Whatever set of numbers we look at, there are some stark and irrefutable facts - the Germans are now undertaking 500,000 Covid-19 tests a week. As of yesterday, we've managed 120,000 IN TOTAL.  

No one commented on this point. Seems like a pretty fundamental problem. Why is this the case?

[maxjam]

9 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Was never going to be perfect, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I would give him 9/10 at the moment, I think he is being as honest as he dare in some things. The message is ramping up, I noticed that once people were not doing the right thing by choice the more serious side of the symptoms started to get reported.. Prior to that it was all, most will get mild symptoms blah blah blah.. No urgency as a result and now those harsher facts are being leaked out, people are listening.. It all does not have to be said at a press conference, they have to carefully control information if they want to flatten curves etc.

Seems that you're not the only one that thinks a good job is being done;

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/03/27/covid-19-support-government-reaction-swell

[RamNut]

When you see the number of front line health care staff testing positive in Ireland (25% of all cases),  if we were getting similar results from testing nhs staff here, then there would be a mass walkout. Hospitals are always a good place to catch superbugs. These people are at significant risk.

[i-Ram]

9 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

No one commented on this point. Seems like a pretty fundamental problem. Why is this the case?

It’s a fair point. I think, but am not sure, that Germany has a manufacturing strength in these areas, whereas our capability in the UK is more in R&D. Absolutely critical though that we do get our hands on these tests and it is clearly now a Government priority. It is one area I think we could be pointing the finger at the Government saying this has to be done better, and quickly.

[i-Ram]

19 minutes ago, RamNut said:

When you see the number of front line health care staff testing positive in Ireland (25% of all cases),  if we were getting similar results from testing nhs staff here, then there would be a mass walkout. Hospitals are always a good place to catch superbugs. These people are at significant risk.

You underestimate NHS staff.  Both my daughter and sister are frontline, and they understand and accept the risks.  Clearly they need to be tested, absolutely they should have the right PPE, and there have been failings I am sure in both respects by those in charge.  However, they and their colleagues are fully committed to seeing this virus away, and their commitment and bravery in my view is comparable to those in the Army, Police and Fire services. They have a lot of anger towards Joe Public not all doing their part towards keep infection levels down.

[alexxxxx]

23 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I rented with mates in East Dulwich in about 2001-2006 and when I was on under 20k, could go out 3-4 nights week, go on holidays etc. Grads at where I work now start on 30k, share houses in places far worse than East Dulwich and hardly ever go out without drinking at home first.

ED is posh! I live relatively nearby there. 

Rent is absolutely insane for most of inner London. 

[Norman]

Interesting. A British firm is now claiming the Chinese government commandeered their 2 warehouses of RPE destined for Britain. 

Also, advisors are claiming the Chinese figures are out by between 14 and 30 times. 

[BaaLocks]

Very interesting article here from The Lancet. To remind, this is not Trotsky Daily or from governmentbashers.com. These is a medical journal talking about this from a medical perspective. And their conclusion is clear - we failed our nation collectively in the slow and limited response. We knew literally months ago what awaited us yet we somehow thought that this strange bulldog mentality would get us through. Boris is even talking about the British Spirit beating coronavirus this morning - it is acutely irresponsible to try and even suggest we have some strange genetic or cultural predisposition that sets us up to cope better, yet it seems to be at the core of why we have failed in even the mos basic of preparations.

As @iRam says earlier, this is leading to rightful anger from those who now not only having to deal with the consequences but who have to go to bed every day knowing that tomorrow is likely going to be even worse.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext?utm_campaign=tlcoronavirus20&utm_content=123399631&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-27013292

Sadly, people will die because when we should have been preparing for this the powers that be were more focused on Big Ben bongs and points systems for the very 'unskilled' workers that are now going to be the ones that will help us fix this.

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Very interesting article here from The Lancet. To remind, this is not Trotsky Daily or from governmentbashers.com. These is a medical journal talking about this from a medical perspective. And their conclusion is clear - we failed our nation collectively in the slow and limited response. We knew literally months ago what awaited us yet we somehow thought that this strange bulldog mentality would get us through. Boris is even talking about the British Spirit beating coronavirus this morning - it is acutely irresponsible to try and even suggest we have some strange genetic or cultural predisposition that sets us up to cope better, yet it seems to be at the core of why we have failed in even the mos basic of preparations.

As @iRam says earlier, this is leading to rightful anger from those who now not only having to deal with the consequences but who have to go to bed every day knowing that tomorrow is likely going to be even worse.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext?utm_campaign=tlcoronavirus20&utm_content=123399631&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-27013292

Sadly, people will die because when we should have been preparing for this the powers that be were more focused on Big Ben bongs and points systems for the very 'unskilled' workers that are now going to be the ones that will help us fix this.

What about Italy and Spain, what were their leaders doing?

[Norman]

9 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

 

@iRam

Sadly, people will die because when we should have been preparing for this the powers that be were more focused on Big Ben bongs and points systems for the very 'unskilled' workers that are now going to be the ones that will help us fix this.

Seriously, have you not read about the plans advisors had in place, and the reasons it failed in some places. 

It wasn't because Farage, who has nothing to do with any of this, wanted Big Ben to chime. 

In fact, I could be a Bamford, and say that if people hadn't delayed our exit from the EU, we would have more time and been able to deal with this better.  But that would be being a Bamford. And it would be false. 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

It’s a fair point. I think, but am not sure, that Germany has a manufacturing strength in these areas, whereas our capability in the UK is more in R&D. Absolutely critical though that we do get our hands on these tests and it is clearly now a Government priority. It is one area I think we could be pointing the finger at the Government saying this has to be done better, and quickly.

If our lack of manufacturing strength is indeed a reason for us not been able to do more testing, then this surely has to be sorted out in planning for a crisis such as this.  Classic Tories now blaming foreigners for our own failings. If a virus breaks out in the uk, we wouldn't have the ability to test what was going on either.

We are basically letting loads and loads of our vital NHS staff get ill as they have no way of knowing if each other has it. Seems like every footballer, politician and celebrity has been tested but NHS staff are way down the list. It's bad enough that nurses are paid a joke wage in the first place. Now we are just putting them in danger because of a) lack of planning and b) our slow response. We gave them all a clap though, can't they be happy with that?

[King Kevin]

On 28/03/2020 at 08:40, Angry Ram said:

Back in the day everyone used to look at Yank TV with envy, all those channels, all that choice.. It’s crap, you are correct our TV is much better.

While I am having a dig at the USA it still amazes me how far they are behind us on so many things. The use of cheques for example, is huge out there, I can’t remember the last time I wrote a cheque.. Contactless payments anywhere are rare. The 3rd world eh.

I love writing cheque's me .

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

No one commented on this point. Seems like a pretty fundamental problem. Why is this the case?

Need you really ask. I get accused of political bias because I'm not happy with the government's handling of the crisis but of course all those remaining tight lipped over issues like testing and PPE for the NHS are utterly impartial. What a joke.

As for all the baalocks written about 'advisers' does the government really need specialist consultation to surmise that in a pandemic, PPE might be required, or that testing processes might need to be ramped up? 

[ariotofmyown]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What about Italy and Spain, what were their leaders doing?

Italy were doing us a favour in been ahead of the curve. We sat back and watched, making sure everyone could have a big blow out before going into partial lockdown. This was when 100s were dying each day in Italy.

Besides, we are Britain (aka England). We are just better than Johnny Foreigner and so should be able to deal with a crisis far better than those other places. Stiff upper lip and all that.

Disaster and emergency planning should be core to what a government does. I'm sure Italy and Spain have the same problems with their leaders as us. Average people with little real experience of planning and making the right decisions when the pressure is on. Being a CEO of a large business would be good experience. Being in charge of a large Hospital would be good experience. Being in charge of a Trade Union would be good experience.

Being a journalist who was fired from the Telegraph for making up stories is not good experience.