i-Ram Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Tamworthram said: How does reaching the play-offs three out of the last four seasons constitute a general, steady decline? Surely it's a case of dramatic decline this season. The quality of our first team playing staff has reduced year on year for the last 5 seasons as he has flip-flopped each season from managers with different styles of playing. We have been semi-successful over the last 2 seasons but the playing staff issues were being masked somewhat by Rowett opting his basic poo-housery approach to the beautiful game and Lampard being able to cherry pick 3 young premier league starlets. Each year the squad has looked worse/unbalanced and each year the financial losses have got worse up to the point where he had to pull off the “master stroke” of selling the ground to himself. I could acknowledge a couple of positives, but for the purposes of my initial response to Kash I stick by my point that there had been a steady decline of the team (and finances) since Mel has been at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Never thought relegation was possible until today. Let us hope it was but a passing thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, Rampage said: Never thought relegation was possible until today. Let us hope it was but a passing thought. That’s what happens if you spend too long on’t bog waiting for the big one to show its ugly face. A good squeeze and you’ll soon be feeling more more positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 On the positive side, I am sure Rooney is learning a hell of a lot from Cocu and the backroom team about management in these difficult circumstances. Better get his boots on and do something or he will be playing in League 1 next season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Ram Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Surviving relegation wouldn't be progress; getting promoted would be progress. I wasn't a big fan of the guy, but watching what has happened over the last few years makes NC'c achievements stand out. NC's player management was poor at times and his mid game tactical changes sometimes made a bad performance worse. However he delivered on what he was asked and managed to play some decent football (sometimes) despite culling players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 29 minutes ago, DCFC Ram said: Surviving relegation wouldn't be progress; getting promoted would be progress. I wasn't a big fan of the guy, but watching what has happened over the last few years makes NC'c achievements stand out. NC's player management was poor at times and his mid game tactical changes sometimes made a bad performance worse. However he delivered on what he was asked and managed to play some decent football (sometimes) despite culling players. It always makes me laugh when people say his man management wasn’t good couldn’t disagree more people yes to get the hump on and make that assumption Cos in post match games he’d say players names , he’d say so and so didn’t do this, he didn’t cover his man or so and so lost the ball for us he said it how it was and didn’t pussy foot around players respect that Cos at the same time he would be equally quick to public ally praise a player that’s man management at its finest Iv been fortunate to play for a former forest coach who used to be one of Brian cloughs youth team coaches, he was exactly the same we’d be say in the dressing room and he’d hammer u if u cocked up or Wernt pulling your weight right infront of ur teammates but by the same token he’d praise u if u did ur job well and make u feel 100ft tall guess what .. u wanted to do ur job and be the guy he points out for all the right reasons best man management Iv ever had in the game if he was so bad at many ex players went back to work for him ? didnt craig bryson in that Steve bloomers washing podcast say how good a man Manager clough was? I realise Iv gone on about something that’s very trivial on the scale of things and current affairs .. it just bugs me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 We are good enough to go down for sure unless we start scoring goals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, i-Ram said: The quality of our first team playing staff has reduced year on year for the last 5 seasons as he has flip-flopped each season from managers with different styles of playing. We have been semi-successful over the last 2 seasons but the playing staff issues were being masked somewhat by Rowett opting his basic poo-housery approach to the beautiful game and Lampard being able to cherry pick 3 young premier league starlets. Each year the squad has looked worse/unbalanced and each year the financial losses have got worse up to the point where he had to pull off the “master stroke” of selling the ground to himself. I could acknowledge a couple of positives, but for the purposes of my initial response to Kash I stick by my point that there had been a steady decline of the team (and finances) since Mel has been at the helm. I think he thought it would be easy, chuck a load of cash at it and bingo, Premier League here we come. Trouble is, every season you challenge and fail just increases the bills, with no extra income to cover it. If you'd have told Mel on takeover he'd be the thick end of £200m down and still in the same league, but minus the largest asset the company owned, he'd have laughed in your face. We've never faced up to reality imo, that if you don't go up you have to let other teams take their pick of the talent, at a premium price, and use the money to buy replacements who can hopefully step up. We've turned down good money for Bryson, Keogh, Martin on the back of good season's, not only not profiting from cheap players at peak value, but doubling down on the mistake by giving them wage increases to persuade them to stay. As a result, we've ended up swapping Anya for Hughes, FFS. The only good deal I see is selling Hendrick on the back of a good Euro's. Compare with Leeds last season, didn't go up, sold Janssen, Roofe, the fella who's name escapes me who was homesick, and a promising Academy product, resulting in a tidy profit, spent on Bamford. We'd have kept them all, giving them pay rises and still bought Bamford, relying on financial chicanery to balance the books. Now reality bites, and a £5m bid for Bogle would be far more appetising than a £5m bid for Malone under P&S rules. It's part bad luck, part rank poor management at the executive level that we find ourselves in this position, but we've not improved our situation throughout Mel's tenure, so it's been a massive waste of his money, and our time. I hope Cocu can fix this, I've no doubt this is his remit, whether Mel will give him the time is a different question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtheram Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 We’ve all seen bad teams in the championship over the years but the bad teams tend to have a good attitude and work rate they just lack quality. At the minute we’re a poor side lacking in work ethic and quality. if our club, Cocu and the players were in the position Bolton were starting on -12 points and fighting for every point we would be worse off then them, they have fight we have nothing on the pitch. Cocu tinkers too much and looking at our results and performances only backs up the reasoning for his dismissal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Edtheram said: We’ve all seen bad teams in the championship over the years but the bad teams tend to have a good attitude and work rate they just lack quality. At the minute we’re a poor side lacking in work ethic and quality. if our club, Cocu and the players were in the position Bolton were starting on -12 points and fighting for every point we would be worse off then them, they have fight we have nothing on the pitch. Cocu tinkers too much and looking at our results and performances only backs up the reasoning for his dismissal If the suspicions about players forming into pro and anti Keogh groups is true, then this division will be against the Club, regardless of who is manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: If the suspicions about players forming into pro and anti Keogh groups is true, then this division will be against the Club, regardless of who is manager. I have never doubted the players playing for the manager, but each other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: It always makes me laugh when people say his man management wasn’t good couldn’t disagree more people yes to get the hump on and make that assumption Cos in post match games he’d say players names , he’d say so and so didn’t do this, he didn’t cover his man or so and so lost the ball for us he said it how it was and didn’t pussy foot around players respect that Cos at the same time he would be equally quick to public ally praise a player that’s man management at its finest Iv been fortunate to play for a former forest coach who used to be one of Brian cloughs youth team coaches, he was exactly the same we’d be say in the dressing room and he’d hammer u if u cocked up or Wernt pulling your weight right infront of ur teammates but by the same token he’d praise u if u did ur job well and make u feel 100ft tall guess what .. u wanted to do ur job and be the guy he points out for all the right reasons best man management Iv ever had in the game if he was so bad at many ex players went back to work for him ? didnt craig bryson in that Steve bloomers washing podcast say how good a man Manager clough was? I realise Iv gone on about something that’s very trivial on the scale of things and current affairs .. it just bugs me lol The problem for Nigel is that there's a level at which his style of management works, it's very old school. Put him in front of your average Premier League squad or a top end Championship team, and they would have absolutely zero respect for it and complain about being spoken to like idiots. Maybe that says more about them than him, but it will always hold him back from managing at a level higher than he's managed at so far. You can baalock a player like Jake Buxton for celebrating a goal agianst the local rivals, but modern players with their pampered existence won't stand for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Coconut said: The problem for Nigel is that there's a level at which his style of management works, it's very old school. Put him in front of your average Premier League squad or a top end Championship team, and they would have absolutely zero respect for it and complain about being spoken to like idiots. Maybe that says more about them than him, but it will always hold him back from managing at a level higher than he's managed at so far. You can baalock a player like Jake Buxton for celebrating a goal agianst the local rivals, but modern players with their pampered existence won't stand for it. Fair point and agree re the modern day prem player but that’s why he signed players with hunger and a desire to learn and didn’t think they were big time Charlie’s he often spoke about signing the right characters too, I bet your bottom dollar he was referring to the the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 14 hours ago, Nuwtfly said: 20th, as it stands. But apparently we're nowhere near poor enough to go down? Reality check needed for some, I'm afraid. I do t think many have said that. Most of the Cocu in crew are saying it's poor players not poor management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 13 hours ago, i-Ram said: The quality of our first team playing staff has reduced year on year for the last 5 seasons as he has flip-flopped each season from managers with different styles of playing. We have been semi-successful over the last 2 seasons but the playing staff issues were being masked somewhat by Rowett opting his basic poo-housery approach to the beautiful game and Lampard being able to cherry pick 3 young premier league starlets. Each year the squad has looked worse/unbalanced and each year the financial losses have got worse up to the point where he had to pull off the “master stroke” of selling the ground to himself. I could acknowledge a couple of positives, but for the purposes of my initial response to Kash I stick by my point that there had been a steady decline of the team (and finances) since Mel has been at the helm. It takes some doing to get a worsening and unbalanced team to the play offs three years out of four wouldn't you say? I agree, not all has been rosy in the garden but I think your comments are a little harsh and he does deserve some credit for what he's done for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Tamworthram said: It takes some doing to get a worsening and unbalanced team to the play offs three years out of four wouldn't you say? I agree, not all has been rosy in the garden but I think your comments are a little harsh and he does deserve some credit for what he's done for the club. He deserves a lot of credit for trying, and investing his money. Best of intentions and all that. @reverendo de duivel however very neatly summarises his period of tenure (above). You were previously a bank manager if I recall correctly. If Mel had no more money, and approached you for a £25m OD, to justify another push over the next 18 months, I would be surprised based on track record if you or your superiors would be over keen based on his 5 year track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minesahartington Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 One bit of positive support for coco. My brother is a Bristol Rovers fan and it will be nice to introduce him to the Brunswick next season. Cheers Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, i-Ram said: He deserves a lot of credit for trying, and investing his money. Best of intentions and all that. @reverendo de duivel however very neatly summarises his period of tenure (above). You were previously a bank manager if I recall correctly. If Mel had no more money, and approached you for a £25m OD, to justify another push over the next 18 months, I would be surprised based on track record if you or your superiors would be over keen based on his 5 year track record. You are correct. I wouldn't be prepared to lend him £25m for a promotion push but, I wouldn't for any other championship chairman. OK, so we've not got promoted during his tenure but, I'm not sure there are many/any other chairmen that could boast 3 (albeit after spending a load of his own cash and ultimately not quite making it) play offs in 3 years. I agreed all is not rosy especially financially. Fortunately or unfortunately, we'll never know if we'd be better off (financially/league position/quality of football etc) if Mel hadn't taken over. If you check back, you'll see that I didn't dispute that there had been a decline, I just suggested it wasn't quite as long term as suggested. I doubt there were many claiming such a thing just prior to the play off final and Frank's departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 18 hours ago, RamNut said: That’s what happens if you spend too long on’t bog waiting for the big one to show its ugly face. A good squeeze and you’ll soon be feeling more more positive. Thank you for your momentous technical input Ramnut, it has elucidated a complex conundrum which I was temporarily bogged down in. This post is a late contender for poost of the year 2019. What a guy. Happy New Year to all true believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I’ve got to say I’m a little surprised we haven’t heard anything from Mel of late. He’s not usually this quiet during a season, yeah, he went on TalkSport a while back but what with the Keogh sacking, imminent investment and our current league position I would have expected him to calm troubled waters with some kind of statement of reassurance. Anybody else thinking along these lines or am I being unreasonable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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