v Wigan Athletic (A) - Matchday Thread

[Steve How Hard?]

Fragmented display not helped by a whistle happy ref that made some strange decisions. Don't think we deserved to lose the game but by the same token we didn't really do enough to justify a win so overall a draw was probably fair. As a side note, I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned but Bogle took his shirt off at the end and handed it to a Derby fan. A sign that he may be on his way come January? Not sure, but at the very least it's something different to discuss. Thoughts anyone? 

[LeedsCityRam]

Just got back from Wigan - fair to say I feared the worse when they went ahead but credit to us for snatching that late equaliser. 

Overall, I think a point was a fair result - we had a couple of spells, particularly early in the second half & around 60 mins when we were applying pressure but generally lacked quality. First half we looked very nervous & Wigan dominated the opening exchanges. That said, we created a lot of own problems with really sloppy ball retention at the back - Forsyth particularly culpable but Bielek and Holmes also losing the ball when an easy pass was on. Aside from a Davies header & Lawrence shooting just wide, we created nothing in the first half at all.

As a general point, the inability to keep possession & lack of quality on the rare occasions we do is killing any forward momentum & is the key reason why we're creating so little and consequently scoring so few. Technically so many of our players also have really heavy touches - I'd be surprised if our Dutch coaches aren't trying to address this but confidence will also play a part.

Ratings;

Hamer - 6 - Fine, takes a bit too long over goal kicks for my liking & trusts Davies/Forsyth too much with the ball but generally solid

Bogle - 5 - Not good. Wigan constantly came down his side - he was often ball watching & delivery in the final 3rd was generally weak. Had a decent last 10 mins after their goal though

Lowe - 6 - OK defensively, not tight enough on occasions - showed more going forward than Bogle I thought

Forsyth - 5 - Defensively sound but a complete liability with the ball at his feet. I don't believe he's a viable long term option at CB & we need someone who can play confidently if we want to continue playing out from the back

Davies - 6 - Defensively sound also, don't remember any issues in possession

Bielek - 6 - started well then faded, some sloppiness in possession & a ridiculous yellow where he clearly won the ball. Right decision for him to come off

Holmes - 6 - fine but didn't really influence the game much. Not much incisiveness with the ball

Knight - 6 - worked hard & some nice touches but struggled to influence the game also

Lawrence - 5 - weak again. His lack of commitment to a tackle led to his yellow (Wigan thought it was a red) and some questionable decision making as per - shoots when he should pass, dithers when he should shoot or pass. I really think he needs time out of the team

Waghorn - 6 - simply for the goal, working hard & being noticeably vocal at set pieces. He again struggled to control the ball at times but didn't have much quality to work with

Martin - 5 - was largely anonymous although didn't see much service into him. He did struggle to hold onto possession though & workrate is a real issue - their CB strolled past him early in the second half deep into our half, he can't allow defenders to do that. If we're not on the front foot & he's not holding the ball up, I'm unsure what he's bringing to the team.

Subs

Bird - 5 - couple of nice touches but also lost the ball in dangerous areas a couple of times

Marriott - 7 -  a threat. Played at a different tempo to the rest of the team. When we broke at Wigan in the last 30 mins, he looked dangerous every time

Whittaker - 5 - only remember one pass into him & he was easily shoved off the ball by the defender.

Finally, the fans - must have had around 3500 there. Very vocal second half, largely supportive despite the display & deserved a result

[King Kevin]

26 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

Bogle took his shirt off at the end and handed it to a Derby fan. A sign that he may be on his way come January?

It's Christmas .

[GrimsbyRam]

27 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Just got back from Wigan - fair to say I feared the worse when they went ahead but credit to us for snatching that late equaliser. 

Overall, I think a point was a fair result - we had a couple of spells, particularly early in the second half & around 60 mins when we were applying pressure but generally lacked quality. First half we looked very nervous & Wigan dominated the opening exchanges. That said, we created a lot of own problems with really sloppy ball retention at the back - Forsyth particularly culpable but Bielek and Holmes also losing the ball when an easy pass was on. Aside from a Davies header & Lawrence shooting just wide, we created nothing in the first half at all.

As a general point, the inability to keep possession & lack of quality on the rare occasions we do is killing any forward momentum & is the key reason why we're creating so little and consequently scoring so few. Technically so many of our players also have really heavy touches - I'd be surprised if our Dutch coaches aren't trying to address this but confidence will also play a part.

Ratings;

Hamer - 6 - Fine, takes a bit too long over goal kicks for my liking & trusts Davies/Forsyth too much with the ball but generally solid

Bogle - 5 - Not good. Wigan constantly came down his side - he was often ball watching & delivery in the final 3rd was generally weak. Had a decent last 10 mins after their goal though

Lowe - 6 - OK defensively, not tight enough on occasions - showed more going forward than Bogle I thought

Forsyth - 5 - Defensively sound but a complete liability with the ball at his feet. I don't believe he's a viable long term option at CB & we need someone who can play confidently if we want to continue playing out from the back

Davies - 6 - Defensively sound also, don't remember any issues in possession

Bielek - 6 - started well then faded, some sloppiness in possession & a ridiculous yellow where he clearly won the ball. Right decision for him to come off

Holmes - 6 - fine but didn't really influence the game much. Not much incisiveness with the ball

Knight - 6 - worked hard & some nice touches but struggled to influence the game also

Lawrence - 5 - weak again. His lack of commitment to a tackle led to his yellow (Wigan thought it was a red) and some questionable decision making as per - shoots when he should pass, dithers when he should shoot or pass. I really think he needs time out of the team

Waghorn - 6 - simply for the goal, working hard & being noticeably vocal at set pieces. He again struggled to control the ball at times but didn't have much quality to work with

Martin - 5 - was largely anonymous although didn't see much service into him. He did struggle to hold onto possession though & workrate is a real issue - their CB strolled past him early in the second half deep into our half, he can't allow defenders to do that. If we're not on the front foot & he's not holding the ball up, I'm unsure what he's bringing to the team.

Subs

Bird - 5 - couple of nice touches but also lost the ball in dangerous areas a couple of times

Marriott - 7 -  a threat. Played at a different tempo to the rest of the team. When we broke at Wigan in the last 30 mins, he looked dangerous every time

Whittaker - 5 - only remember one pass into him & he was easily shoved off the ball by the defender.

Finally, the fans - must have had around 3500 there. Very vocal second half, largely supportive despite the display & deserved a result

Agree with most of that, would probably have Lowe slightly higher and Bird.  Forsyth would have been a 4 for me, at fault for the goal and gave numerous balls away. Noticed the Whittaker shove off the ball in what was a semi dangerous position.

[Dava75]

3 hours ago, DanS1992 said:

Are you serious! Have you been watching the game today? So based on what you have seen the next two games are winnable? So Charlton who have just won, and Barnsley who drew with WBA. I admire you optimism I really do, but based on the way we are playing it is more two "non-winnable" games... 

I would also like to think that Rooney's imminent arrival will spark an upturn in fortunes, but even he won't be able to do that with the rabble we currently have. This is all based on the last 10 or so games and I see no clear improvement. We are very lucky today and deserve duck all. Wigan were robbed.

I hate being a pedant but sod it:

1. We’re at home in the next 2 games and our form Over the last 10 games has been slightly better at home. We’ve had 5 home games. Winning 2, drawing 2 and losing 1 of the home games.

2. Overall our form in the last 10 has been better than Charlton’s but yes Barnsley’s is currently better.

3. However, Barnsley have only played 4 out of their last 10 away. Winning 1 and losing 3. Charlton have also played 4 of the last 10 away; drawing 1 and losing 3.

 

So I’d say winnable games is a credible suggestion, nobody suggested  “nailed on 6pts”!!

Yes I’ve been today and yes I’ve got concerns but equally I’m optimistic we may do better at home in the next couple. ?

ps feel free to throw this back in my face next Thursday at 9:45pm ??‍♂️

[Emson]

Didn't go but listened on RD 

Not too sure what the problem is :

• stopped the rot away from home
• scored a goal
• didn't capitulate despite being up against it
• fans turned up in numbers and good voice - astonishing given what has gone before
• denied potential relegation adversaries two points
• plenty of youngsters got game time

Last two times against Wigan it led to a revival - hopefully this one will too

[Ellafella]

1 minute ago, Emson said:

Didn't go but listened on RD 

Not too sure what the problem is :

• stopped the rot away from home
• scored a goal
• didn't capitulate despite being up against it
• fans turned up in numbers and good voice - astonishing given what has gone before
• denied potential relegation adversaries two points
• plenty of youngsters got game time

Last two times against Wigan it led to a revival - hopefully this one will too

I did go. I cannot recall seeing a more poor Derby side. This team gets worse. 

[G STAR RAM]

Well I voiced my displeasure at half time, second half was better but still unacceptable.

My take on things:-

Hamer - Gives me more confidence than Roos. Couple of good saves first half to keep it at 0-0. Distribution pretty good.

Bogle - Not sure what has happened to him. Seemed to be targeted first half. No attacking threat until the last 10 minutes. Way too casual at times. I fear his head has been turned.

Lowe - An upgrade on Malone. Bags of energy and offered some attacking threat. Needs to work on his crossing. 

Davies - Same as normal really, didnt do much wrong. His distribution is poor though. Seemed to miss a free header first half but it was other end to us so not sure how good the chance was.

Forsyth - Abysmal. He is not a centre back. His lazy passes put us in trouble on at least 3 occasions first half. We all know he is a confidence player and right now he has none. Needs taking out of the firing line.

Bielek - Never looks fit to me. Good bringing the ball out sometimes but is just as likely to give it away. Passes are hit and miss. Too many erratic challenges.

Holmes - Same as usual, bags of energy, carries the ball well, no end product.

Knight - My MOTM. Not afraid to get on the ball and put himself about. Great driving run into the box in the second half.

Lawrence - charlatan. Hopefully the suspension brings down the curtains on his DCFC career. Pulling out of challenges, running blindly into defenders, shooting from 40 yards. Seen it since the day he joined and absolutely no signs of improvement. 

Waghorn - nearly made a mess of the equaliser. That's the only thing I remember him doing all match. Mainly because we never get the ball forward to him.

Martin - Pretty much as Waghorn, although he did not score the equaliser and he did win a few headers.

Bird - Did ok after coming on for Bielek but still havent really seen anything from him to convince me he will cut it at this level.

Whittaker - A boy playing in a mans game. Not ready for this level yet.

Marriott - Changed the game for us as an attacking force and actually got us in dangerous positions. Assist for the goal I believe.

[Emson]

13 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

I did go. I cannot recall seeing a more poor Derby side. This team gets worse. 

Fair enough - your opinion and you we there.

I recall going to see Derby play Wigan at home on boxing Day ( or was it NY day ?) in the old third division. 16000 there and that was a high for that season so far.

I also vaguely remember seeing Rams beat Hull City in the league cup in 1969 on a wednesday night

Im currently watching two lives games at the same time (probably not a good idea) - one at Reading, one at Leicester.

The one at Reading seems to have a ghost attendance in a near empty stadium.

The one at Leicester has only a few thousand more spectators than our average this season - they are in champions league places and we are battling for survival  in the Championship

Still glad Im a Rams fan !!

[Angry Ram]

25 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

I did go. I cannot recall seeing a more poor Derby side. This team gets worse. 

These posts worry me.. Ella is not a doom merchant and knows his football. If he is saying this, we have a problem.. I’ve not managed to get to too many this season, so stayed out of commenting but the Jan window is crucial.. 

[LeedsCityRam]

39 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Agree with most of that, would probably have Lowe slightly higher and Bird.  Forsyth would have been a 4 for me, at fault for the goal and gave numerous balls away. Noticed the Whittaker shove off the ball in what was a semi dangerous position.

Fair enough. Bird did play one excellent ball into Waghorn (?) but also recall him getting muscled off the ball for Wigan to break. I did think the Whittaker challenge was fair, believe he and Bird have some strength/body position work to do before they're true first team material - Knight is a bit further ahead of both in that department.

[nottingram]

34 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

I did go. I cannot recall seeing a more poor Derby side. This team gets worse. 

I’ve only been going ten years and can remember two worse. Jewell’s team, and Feb-May 2015. The latter of those was similarly decimated by injuries as this current side.

I remember dickings at home by Scunthorpe and Shrewsbury that were especially bad

[Coneheadjohn]

This made me smile.

 

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

These posts worry me.. Ella is not a doom merchant and knows his football. If he is saying this, we have a problem.. I’ve not managed to get to too many this season, so stayed out of commenting but the Jan window is crucial.. 

I got told off for my reality check post lol

[GrimsbyRam]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

These posts worry me.. Ella is not a doom merchant and knows his football. If he is saying this, we have a problem.. I’ve not managed to get to too many this season, so stayed out of commenting but the Jan window is crucial.. 

Agreed and looking at some Wigan fans they said we were the worst away team in about 3 seasons to go there.  

[KCG]

Quote

5 hours ago, Sexydadbod said:

Because they’re our best forwards and they link up the best, as evident in that Boro home game and after the forest game Cocu just suddenly stopped playing them both together. Seems bizarre to not even try them together again since the forest game. It also gets Lawrence into the game more as it means he plays more centrally. Martin works best with people up and close to him like Bryson at his best used to and Marriott plays best in a front 2.  Playing Martin like this is useless, he’s not a magician and can’t create everything up front himself. 

If we had a few more fans here saying things like this I would respect their views.

[Derby blood]

Great support again nearly 2700 there to drive us on, glad we got a point, but we need to get better doing the basics like passing the ball to our own players, hope Rooney can make a big impact because we need one

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Was great to properly meet @angieram today. Thankfully, I was far more sober than I was at Blackburn. Cracking day, as Boxing Day always is.

[WystonRam]

9 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

.Finally, the fans - must have had around 3500 there. Very vocal second half, largely supportive despite the display & deserved a result

Attendance: 14,211 (2,862 Rams fans)

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, wyschtonram said:

Attendance: 14,211 (2,862 Rams fans)

Interesting. I thought we'd sold 2700 tickets before the day, would be surprised if only 150 odd paid on the day (like I did)

Also cant believe there were 11.5k Wigan fans there!