NottsRam77 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Wolfie20 said: Nothing to do with lack of effort - we're short of quality and the players are lacking in confidence. The confidence issue can be put down to a number of factors - too many changes to the match day starting eleven, injuries to key players and individual player errors amongst them. No doubt someone will soon point to Lawrence with regard to lack of effort but his demeanour doesn't change irrespective of whether he's having a good game or not so I don't feel it's lack of application in his case. Lawrence never actually lacks effort and has bags of natural ability his decision making however is simply atrocious this disappoints me the mot with him, u can’t teach the sort of ability that he has, but u can coach and develop decision making... he appears to have made no improvement on that since he’s been here if anything he’s gone backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 The football is absolutely dire. I can deal with that to a degree, but then it’s the weird match day selections of having Jozefzoon in and out the squad, likewise Paterson and Dowell - why isn’t Sibley getting games over the latter? Why can’t he pick a LB and stick to it? The late changes in games when it’s clear it isn’t working after 30 odd minutes ?♂️ Im pretty sure he had a say in the Summer window TBH, he’s a close friend of the Everton sporting director Marcel Brands so I’m pretty sure that would’ve got the Dowell loan over the line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, Papahet said: The football is absolutely dire. I can deal with that to a degree, but then it’s the weird match day selections of having Jozefzoon in and out the squad, likewise Paterson and Dowell - why isn’t Sibley getting games over the latter? Why can’t he pick a LB and stick to it? The late changes in games when it’s clear it isn’t working after 30 odd minutes ?♂️ Im pretty sure he had a say in the Summer window TBH, he’s a close friend of the Everton sporting director Marcel Brands so I’m pretty sure that would’ve got the Dowell loan over the line... Either Dowell just hasn't worked out for whatever reason, or his mate has sold him a dud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 21 hours ago, Paul71 said: I think they should be beating Millwall at home yes. I think our squad should be winning at home to Millwall but the match day 11 is now missing Keogh, Bielek and Shinnie from what I would consider to be our best team from the beginning of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I might be wrong but weren't quite a few on here pleased we signed him? Dowell that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: Lawrence never actually lacks effort and has bags of natural ability his decision making however is simply atrocious this disappoints me the mot with him, u can’t teach the sort of ability that he has, but u can coach and develop decision making... he appears to have made no improvement on that since he’s been here if anything he’s gone backwards This. Surely the intrinsic properties of a good coach is to develop and harness the talents of the group of people they have under them and maximise this skill pool. I see no evidence of this under Cocu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeTownRam Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: This. Surely the intrinsic properties of a good coach is to develop and harness the talents of the group of people they have under them and maximise this skill pool. I see no evidence of this under Cocu. Even the coach that signed him never got it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EraniosSocks Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Seen PSV have sacked Van Bommel this morning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK-Ram Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I really really want Cocu to come good, but even I can see that if we don't get good enough results over the next 4 games (all of which we should be looking to win) then it will be tough to make an argument to save him. That being said I have a horrible feeling that if that does happen then we will turn to an old head like big Sam, Pardew or Colin...unfortunately I can't see any other way this would end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 4 hours ago, NottsRam77 said: Lawrence never actually lacks effort and has bags of natural ability his decision making however is simply atrocious this disappoints me the mot with him, u can’t teach the sort of ability that he has, but u can coach and develop decision making... he appears to have made no improvement on that since he’s been here if anything he’s gone backwards He hasn't improved under 3 managers. Same appalling decisions. This is though his best scoring season for us. He is now a senior player of the squad and has to do more. You can't use Lawrence as a stick to beat Cocu with. Waghorn and Bogle aren't having as good seasons. You could look at Holmes but I think his role has had to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 3 hours ago, The Orange Pimpernel said: I might be wrong but weren't quite a few on here pleased we signed him? Dowell that is. And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Just now, BondJovi said: He hasn't improved under 3 managers. Same appalling decisions. This is though his best scoring season for us. He is now a senior player of the squad and has to do more. You can't use Lawrence as a stick to beat Cocu with. Waghorn and Bogle aren't having as good seasons. You could look at Holmes but I think his role has had to change. I’m not ... it says more about the individual than it does about the management current and previous he’s just not the player he could / should have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jram Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said: I’m not ... it says more about the individual than it does about the management current and previous he’s just not the player he could / should have been I don't blame Tom Lawrence, imagine the effort and sacrifice he'd have to put in to truly maximise his talent when you can muddle along as a decent player and still get to go out on the piss here and there. I think perhaps Cocu is trying to coach him but Lawrence has to actually put the work in, Cocu can't make him. Lampard vastly improved Wilson and Tomori particularly last season but not Lawrence so maybe it's just Lawrence is content with the level he's reached. I would be the exact same if I'm honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said: I’m not ... it says more about the individual than it does about the management current and previous he’s just not the player he could / should have been The worst part is we pretty much have to play him incase he shows some of that ability. That is desperate stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I do agree that some players will be disappointed with what's happening to Keogh (it's not over yet.) I also can't imagine that Keogh isn't still a key part of the players' WhatsApp group and is possibly not holding back on his opinions. He's such a strong character that he still has the ability to undermine what's happening in and around the team if he wants to - and his agent did seem to stress that he feels aggreived about what has happened. If the speculation about legal action against Tom Lawrence's insurance is also true this will have yet more impact. Depending whose side you take, some players may even resent Tom's continued presence at the club. I think we need a really strong leader more than anything, both on and off the pitch to replace the void that Keogh's departure has left.. Could Rooney be that person? I am not sure as I don't know enough about him. It may be we will also see other players moving out before the atmosphere in and around the first team improves. Yet none of this should influence the decision about Cocu's future because if he goes, the problems in culture will still be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, Jram said: I don't blame Tom Lawrence, imagine the effort and sacrifice he'd have to put in to truly maximise his talent when you can muddle along as a decent player and still get to go out on the piss here and there. I think perhaps Cocu is trying to coach him but Lawrence has to actually put the work in, Cocu can't make him. Lampard vastly improved Wilson and Tomori particularly last season but not Lawrence so maybe it's just Lawrence is content with the level he's reached. I would be the exact same if I'm honest And So it boils down to the individual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 every season we have had a least 1 key player. This season we dont have any. No one to get the ball up to. No one to get into, to create something. Until this is addressed, Cocu will be struggling. Rooney could be that player, but im still unsure on where i'd like him to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: And? Some of the ones now questioning the judgement of the recruitment staff were pleased to get him when he arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, jimbobram said: every season we have had a least 1 key player. This season we dont have any. No one to get the ball up to. No one to get into, to create something. Until this is addressed, Cocu will be struggling. Rooney could be that player, but im still unsure on where i'd like him to play. "We're a one man team.......we just haven't signed him yet" ? Ah but we have.....Rooooooooooooooney ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 27 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said: Some of the ones now questioning the judgement of the recruitment staff were pleased to get him when he arrived. Not meant as a catty comment but I would assume that some of the same posters on here also thought Cocu was a good piece of recruitment when he arrived. I guess what I'm saying is that hindsight is a wonderful thing. Cocu yet may come good who knows - bear in mind that Dowell has had as long as Cocu to prove his worth and many are saying the loan deal with Dowell should be terminated as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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