Ellafella Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 14 hours ago, DcfcJB said: I actually believe Cocu is doing great, if you look at the games we should have won but we didn’t due to wastefulness in front of goal or defensive error we would be 8 points better off, guess where that would put us...? Bearing in mind the cards he has been dealt this season, he is starting to put his philosophy in to action. Taking out 2 very uncharacteristic performances at Charlton and Brentford. We have been very difficult to break down and beat and we should have won a lot of the games we have drawn. Swansea/WBA/Barnsley/Cardiff. We had a very good and hard earned point vs Leeds and a 50/50 with Stoke. If we keep this sort of form until January we shall have Rooney come in, who let’s face it can only improve us, I would hope we can invest in a winger and a keeper and we should be competing at the top. There is no panic coming from Cocu, he knows he’s building a squad and he knows who he can trust to win him promotion and probably knows who he’s going to bring in to replace them in January. I would say hopefully he will get us the momentum we need this season January onwards and then see where it takes us. If your auntie had a pair of balls. she’d be your uncle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 We’re 13 games in to a season. We’re mid table. We lost 3 international players. Had a poor pre-season, had and have a number of injuries. Yet there still seems to be an expectation of some slick passing freestyle football. For me, Cocu should stick to his plan rather than alter it to suit the players we have, which has been mentioned before. That short term mentality will not get us very far. He sticks to what he wants the team to play like and by the end of the season it will be clear to him who can’t achieve that, which youngsters can come in and who in the squad should stay. It also then has a season of being ingrained on the squad rather than having to try and start afresh next season. I expect a mid table almost disjointed season this time but optimistic of it being a base for next season. In terms of what he’s trying to implement, I see possession football but for me he seems to want that movement forward to be quicker rather than playing it safe. Unfortunately I don’t think the players are confident to do it yet and we don’t help. Take Bielik in the last game, he was sloppy in possession at times no argument there, but he would try and play it quickly at times, first time pass out to someone. When that pass didn’t come off, huge groans everywhere. So when players get that, they’re likely to make the safer pass. I’m not saying we should cheer a misplaced pass but when the intention is right then maybe we could stop moaning at the attempt? I’m also not saying it’s down to us that the team play a lot of backwards and sideways passes. It’s mainly something that will come with time and practice for most, just saying maybe we have a part to play in helping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minesahartington Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: 18 goals conceded this season. 6 of those were penalties. I think another 6 are from set pieces (FKs and corners). Simple errors which when addressed, can be the difference between a side facing relegation and a side chasing automatics. Been waiting about 5 years for the simple errors of conceding from corners to be addressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, minesahartington said: Been waiting about 5 years for the simple errors of conceding from corners to be addressed Bring back Bucko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, WilkoRam said: For me, Cocu should stick to his plan rather than alter it to suit the players we have, which has been mentioned before. That short term mentality will not get us very far. He sticks to what he wants the team to play like and by the end of the season it will be clear to him who can’t achieve that, which youngsters can come in and who in the squad should stay. It also then has a season of being ingrained on the squad rather than having to try and start afresh next season. I expect a mid table almost disjointed season this time but optimistic of it being a base for next season. What is he trying to implement though I see no conviction that even he knows himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerpyDane Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I don't like the if's and but's. If you put it like that we could have very well lost to Leeds and not won a single of our home matches. We've certainly not been hard to break down. If you look at expected goals we should be 20th with only Barnsley expected to concede more goals! And what's this philosophy people keep banging on about? Sure it takes time to implement, but can anyone tell what he is trying to bring to the table tactics-wise? We've been bland so far and I don't see any particular development in any area. Cocu definitely deserves more time. Would be foolish to sack him anytime soon. But I've certainly been underwhelmed by our performances so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 13 hours ago, Ewe Ram said: The problem was evident on Wednesday night. People around me saying ‘it’s only Wigan for Gods sake’. I’m afraid we’re only Derby County and fans need to accept we don’t have the automatic right to be in the top 6. Even when we win they take no pleasure from it because we’ve not steamrollered the opposition. I dont understand this either. In the last 14 seasons Wigan have spent 8 of them in the premier league. We've been in the Prem one season in that time only to set our record. We have no god given right to be beating any team. Wigan have been down to League one a couple of times since they were last in the Prem, but they were still in the prem a lot more recently than us. Maybe a few seasons of mediocrity will help to reset expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 14 hours ago, ram1964 said: Now fear we need six or seven players For as long as I've been on this forum we've needed six, seven, eight new players. And we'll get two or three, maybe less, like we always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramfan1958 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Chester40 said: Excellent, sometimes they just write themselves ???? I said before the Brentford match we are going to get a thrashing loosing 2 games 3-0 is not a score I can see coming !!!!!!. A good team who takes their chances will thrash us were that bad. People saying he's doing a good job are in dreamland ,get real we are rubbish totally rubbish . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, GenBr said: I dont understand this either. In the last 14 seasons Wigan have spent 8 of them in the premier league. We've been in the Prem one season in that time only to set our record. We have no god given right to be beating any team. Wigan have been down to League one a couple of times since they were last in the Prem, but they were still in the prem a lot more recently than us. Maybe a few seasons of mediocrity will help to reset expectations. Have you seen their away record?? Nothing to do with little old Wigan, they have got a terrible away record and have been forced to sell players who have done well for them...if we can't expect to beat them at home we are in for a long hard season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ramfan1958 said: I said before the Brentford match we are going to get a thrashing loosing 2 games 3-0 is not a score I can see coming !!!!!!. A good team who takes their chances will thrash us were that bad. People saying he's doing a good job are in dreamland ,get real we are rubbish totally rubbish . My comment was about @86 Schmokes & a Pancake joke! Go back and look at your previous posts.... Anyway, I agree possession means nothing without intent. I think we can still make a push for the play offs but it needs a massive improvement from recent performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 32 minutes ago, Chester40 said: Have you seen their away record?? Nothing to do with little old Wigan, they have got a terrible away record and have been forced to sell players who have done well for them...if we can't expect to beat them at home we are in for a long hard season. Have you seen our home record? Before that game we were ranked 15th in the home form table and we still are ranked 15th in the away from table. Wigans home form is still better than ours now even if their away form is abysmal it doesn't mean they are a crap team that we can expect to beat. I will say again - we have no god given right to beat anyone - we are not one of the best teams in the league at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 15 hours ago, Birdyabroad said: I actually agree. I really think Cocu looks the part, in his suit on the touchline. I also like the way he doesn’t spend the game bellowing, like a Pulis, but instead has a few chosen commands for his players; I think he’s the best we’ve seen at this. I also like the way his assistant manager is always flipping through a folder, I know he has pages of tactics in there and the way they are bringing through Rosenior, with his ear piece and very own tactics folder, is nothing short of class. Every time I see Given on the bench, he also looks the part with his furrowed brow and I think this level of professionalism is filtering down, for example, I think the way the medical team run on and do that thing where they crouch on one knee and talk, via earpiece, to the bench is exemplary. I personally think that, to look at, our coaching set-up is top half Premier league easily, maybe top 6 and I think Cocu is taking us there ? Not a game for a thin suit. I’d like to see Cocu adopt a cashmere scarf in club colours - mancini style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Ellafella said: If your auntie had a pair of balls. she’d be your uncle... I think you're underplaying the complexity of some important transgender issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 2 hours ago, RamNut said: Not a game for a thin suit. I’d like to see Cocu adopt a cashmere scarf in club colours - mancini style. I think a wetsuit would be more appropriate for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Tyler Durden said: What is he trying to implement though I see no conviction that even he knows himself Is that second part true though ? He's fairly rigidly stuck to a formation, insisted on playing out from the back, not played players because they didn't fit what he wanted or least waited till they adapted (Or was forced through injury) and has been very consistent in saying what he wants. The intent is there but the execution so far hasn't been for a variety of reasons. The thing is when you are looking to play a possession based game; it quickly looks slow, tedious and easily exploitable with the occasional calamitous error if the personal isn't right and everyone isn't in sync. Especially if you don't have the right quality in midfield. Like remove Hughes and one of Bryson or Hendrick from the 13/14 side and you'd see a little of the issues we are seeing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 34 minutes ago, angieram said: I think a wetsuit would be more appropriate for today. It might chafe a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofmidnight Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Like remove Hughes and one of Bryson or Hendrick from the 13/14 side and you'd see a little of the issues we are seeing now. This is just right. The players that have been brought in don't seem at the moment to be as good as those that have gone. I don't honestly think the club has made any headway in the last 5/6 seasons. We need to stick with Cocu but I fear it's going to be a long haul. Please prove me wrong Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 But surely even if the player's arent ultimately at the standard we want, they can at least look as though they are being coached to be the best they can be. I think that seems to be the criticism at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofmidnight Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Yes that's another issue. Can't really say I've enjoyed much of the football this season. It's been very turgid and sloppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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