Millenniumram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, TexasRam said: This is the bit I don’t get, why are we so obsessed with 433? we clearly now don't have the personnel to make that formation work. Well it’s probably the most well used and successful formation in football right now, and there must be a reason behind that. That reason, logically speaking, is that it’s strengths must outweigh its weaknesses tactically more than any other formation. I have no issue with us aiming towards creating a set up that can play the formation most likely to bring us success long term. Trouble is, the muppets in recruitment again made an absolute arse of buying the players we actually needed to build a 433. So I do agree with you, at least until we get to a transfer window, we’d be better off switching to a formation that masks our weaknesses out wide more. But I don’t expect it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 If we're playing 4-3-3 then Marriott should play on the left of the 3 like Dwight Gayle often did for WBA last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Jourdan said: 4-3-3 will leave him too isolated. 4-4-2 will expose the midfield. So I think 3-5-2 with Martin and Marriott up top is your only option, and I am not sure Cocu is at that point yet. Been thinking for a while that 3-5-2 would suit us best. Move Hudds or Bielik in to the back 3 to sweep and come out into the middle. Lowe and Bogle as wing backs Martin or Waghorn upfront with Marriott. The main issue with any formation is at centre mid. We don't have the balance right and really miss the quality of Mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Carnero said: If we're playing 4-3-3 then Marriott should play on the left of the 3 like Dwight Gayle often did for WBA last season. That's what I'd love to see, Marriott playing very centrally. We have two (+Forsyth) great options as left wingback, let them take care of whole left flank. Rotate Malone and Lowe so they can recover and might as well use one sub each game just between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, Dimmu said: That's what I'd love to see, Marriott playing very centrally. We have two (+Forsyth) great options as left wingback, let them take care of whole left flank. Rotate Malone and Lowe so they can recover and might as well use one sub each game just between them. Playing Shinnie as the left of the midfield 3 would also help shore up the left side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Don't care if we're not playing 433 with an all round centre forward. Couldn't give a poo. All I want to see is Derby winning football matches. And the best way to do that is to play to our players strengths. We have to start doing this and stop being so stubborn. Playing him in a 2 with Martin would definitely work. Give Marriott balls to run on to and he will put them away no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelloram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Millenniumram said: We’re definitely not getting the best out of jack at the moment that’s for sure. He certainly needs better service to get the goals out of him that we know he’s capable of. But I don’t think it’s as simple as saying pair him with Martin and he’ll immediately improve. Now I can get why people would claim that, you look at the attributes of the 2 players and they look well suited to playing together. But how do you get them together is the question? It won’t work in a 433 which we’re aiming towards, the only way it’s possible without a radical change in formation is a 4231- but again, that’ll leave a gaping midfield gap which has been one of our biggest problems. Now I’d argue that perhaps a radical formation change to a 3 at the back or a diamond is needed as they better suit our current personnel, but that’s for another thread and as cocu seems to prefer the 433 style (fair enough) then I think talking about such formation changes is a bit redundant. So if we rule that idea out, imo it is still possible to get the best out of Marriott in a lone striking role. But we need better quality around him in terms of wingers and midfielders for it to succeed. He’s not good enough, and perhaps more importantly not experienced enough, to deal with the poor quality around him at the moment and work to make the best out of it. He just ends up isolated. So for the time being, how we get the best out of Marriott imo is to use him as an impact sub against tired legs- and start chris Martin. Long term, Marriott has to be our striker, he’s got the potential to be great, but until we can fix our awful midfield and widemen, we need a temporary solution. Martin is that imo. 3-5-2 would suit us, we have no decent wingers so why continue to play 4-3-3. Lawrence, Bennett, Jozefoon all not good enough. Bring Davies back in to strengthen back 3, more legs in middle of park, Bogle and Lowe as wing backs enabling us to feed two from Marriott, Martin and Waghorn properly. We know that won't happen, Marriott back to bench and Lawrence back in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltRam Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 5 hours ago, TexasRam said: This is the bit I don’t get, why are we so obsessed with 433? we clearly now don't have the personnel to make that formation work. I think we do, it's just all about the focal point...ahem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Well I think Bennett can delivery on crosses and he see Bennett who can play behind the strikers but now chris martin is back and fireing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 I don't ever see Jack being effective in a 4-3-3 formation wherever he plays in that formation I was just as excited when we bought him but then after a while questioned why we bought him ? As he looks much better up front with a partner. Even at Wembley him and Waghorn linked up well after Jack came on and we looked much more dangerous The problem Cocu has is do we have the personel to play 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 and maybe we dont but I also don't see a good 4-3-3 so I'd try 2 up front and when Rooney arrives he would play at the tip of the diamond 4 in midfield......I do think we'd score more goals with 4-4-2 but might be outfought in midfield but maybe change to 4-2-3-1 on tougher away games I think if Jack was up front with a strike partner he'd have scored more goals for us by now but unfortunately not many teams do play with a two so its a difficult one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcfan1 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Problem is 3-5-2 requires a good box to box cm and a good creative cm which we dont have. 4-3-3 you can kind of get away with passive midfielders if your wingers and fullbacks whip in a good cross once every while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Flojo can't cross a ball get rid of him, go with a 3-5-2 I would go with two wing backs. Bogle/Lowe with back up of Forsyth, Malone and Wisdom. Play with 3 centrebacks from Keogh, Clarke, Davies, Bielik, Wisdom and Huddlestone. One Holding midfielder from Bielik, Huddlestone, Evans and Bird. The other two central midfielders from Lawrence, Shinnie, Dowell, Holmes, Knight and Sibley. Up front Marriott and tucked in behind him Martin, Have Waghorn, Paterson And Bennett as backups/impact subs. Getting fast wing backs crossing into the box, flick on's, headers and threaded balls in the channels between centrehalfs from Martin or Waghorn/Paterson, this would get the best from him. He is a natural goalscorer, lets feed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 I agree with Plymouth Ram. Jack Marriott should be bagging 25 goals a season if we build the team around him. I really want to see this playing out from the back obsession reduced in frequency, Roos frightens me to death with the ball at his feet, and we are not PSV or Citeh. I want to see our record signing played as the main holding midfielder where he excelled for Charlton . We maybe work in progress, but it’s as boring as f@@@ at the moment. Let’s go for it especially at home. I’m afraid this team won’t improve unless Big Tom is dropped and we get some energy into midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Basically all I have learned from this thread is that we dont have the personnel to play any formation. Worrying to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Ram Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 He’s already got a striking partner, he just happens to be on holiday in the States till January. To me, would could have Kane partnering Rooney up front, unless we get some more flair / creativity in team goals are going few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Get midfielders up to support Marriott and there will be no problem! He also needs to do more. While he was deprived service against Leeds, he didn’t do enough, one of his worst performances for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said: Get midfielders up to support Marriott and there will be no problem! He also needs to do more. While he was deprived service against Leeds, he didn’t do enough, one of his worst performances for a while. The great thing about Martin is that even if he can't win the header, he makes it difficult for the defender and has a good chance of winning a free kick. I don't expect Marriott to win a header but he just doesn't make it difficult enough for them. Got to do the ugly stuff aswell. We could get more out of him with a strike partner but he does need to take a bit more responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 get marriott to learn a new position (inside forward, winger), slap martin up top, bobs yer uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Get the ball in the final third and not give it away. Seriously. I was looking to find the stats of the passes and pass completion of teams in the final third. I couldn't find it but I predict for a side who has 50% + of the ball it must be low. I expect only the most direct counter attacking sides achieve less passes. It's truly pants how poorly we use the ball in the final third. How can Marriott be expected to do anything. He's a poacher. What is he meant to feed off. The closest he gets to players feeding him is a cross. There are not many clever passes put through gaps. Even clever inside channel through balls are rare. Usually some knob head has a shot before then Nobody plays to his strengths and in return he can't really offer much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Alpha said: Nobody plays to his strengths and in return he can't really offer much I agree and I can't see why, if that's the case, Cocu plays him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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