Penalty or Not?

[Zag zig]

2 hours ago, The middle man said:

Aye, the Aston Villa we cheated against by sportingly let them walk a goal in, the very same team.

The Aston Villa, who's player tried to foul Cooper, but injured himself (no head injury) the ref waved play on, and in the confusion that followed, we scored.

Bielsa then ordered the players to let Villa score.

Would Dean "play for the foul" Smith of done the same?

Did they do the same when the Stoke player went down at Villa park? - no, they played on, and exploited the space where the full back should have been, crossed and scored, the difference was Stoke played on and didn't demand or feel entitled that the game be stopped.

The Aston Villa that have Tyrone Ming at centre back, who has stamped on opposing players heads when they were on the floor twice.

The Aston Villa that have golden boy (can't do no wrong) Jack Grealish, who goes down if you breathe on him (Dean "play for the foul" Smith)

John Terry - enough said.

Now that is a nasty, sneaky team.

But hey, dirty Leeds.

I’m probably in the minority here but your comments on Villa are fair do’s to me; although Grealish is probably the most gifted player in the championship this season and as for going down easy, plenty of gifted players like and better than him do the same. Ronaldo in the better section for one.

But hey fair enough on Villa, however you’re still dirty Leeds and always will be ?

[DCFC Ram]

3 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

Yes we would have scored from it and they know it.

Hi there b4 - it's good to see that you are still following the Rams! Year!

 

[Phuket Ram]

Again, I'll say that the ref awarded a penalty, and nothing I've seen since shows that that was a clear and obvious error.

Harrison himself said he was going for the ball and the player came from behind him. He didn't say it wasn't a penalty either.

BUT the penalty was not awarded because the linesman said that Bogle fouled Harrison. Yet even Harrison didn't say that..... 

Neither the ref or the linesman are saying (or said) that it wasn't a foul on Bogle (and therefore a penalty) - except that Bogle committed the foul first.

So I have to agree that because the Dirty Leeds players surrounded the referee, and because the lino thought he saw something, the lino (Ian Hussin, from Liverpool who's blind in one eye*) made the decision.

Which is exactly why I was backing Man City to win the premiership this afternoon! The lineman in the Man City v Brighton game was Simon Burt - a big DCFC fan* from Staffordshire. 

What goes around comes around Ian ?  

*I might have made that bit up 

[ram59]

I've just seen it again frame by frame and the middle man is right, Bogle attacks the front of the Leeds player's foot with the back of his calf.

In reality, I don't see how the ref could have seen such a minor contact and I didn't see it live at the game, but he was right and his assistant has dreamt up a foul from nowhere against Bogle. 

To be honest our play didn't deserve anything on the day but it still doesn't mean that we should be cheated by a linesman. 

Nice to see Quest having a perfectly neutral pundit as well, Michael Brown, who was once given a straight red whilst playing for the dirties against.....................Derby. 

[Bob The Badger]

11 minutes ago, ram59 said:

I've just seen it again frame by frame and the middle man is right, Bogle attacks the front of the Leeds player's foot with the back of his calf.

In reality, I don't see how the ref could have seen such a minor contact and I didn't see it live at the game, but he was right and his assistant has dreamt up a foul from nowhere against Bogle. 

To be honest our play didn't deserve anything on the day but it still doesn't mean that we should be cheated by a linesman. 

Nice to see Quest having a perfectly neutral pundit as well, Michael Brown, who was once given a straight red whilst playing for the dirties against.....................Derby. 

I can remember being in Bakewell in the early '80s and attacking this guys forehead with the bridge of my nose after one too many shandies.

I'm pretty sure that taught him a lesson.

Bogle should be banned for at least three years for falling over in the Leeds half.

[maydrakin]

I think this is a reason why VAR is rubbish.

Even after extensive debate, it’s not clear cut in all minds whether it’s a penalty.

For the record, there is nothing in the rules about whether a player got the ball first - something that annoys me about pundits not knowing the laws of the game.

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:

charges

jumps at

kicks or attempts to kick

pushes

strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)

tackles or challenges

trips or attempts to trip

If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed

Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned

Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:

handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)

holds an opponent

impedes an opponent with contact

bites or spits at someone

throws an object at the ball, opponent or match official, or makes contact with the ball with a held object

[MK-Ram]

I’ve had two night’s sleep to get over the game now. Our tactics were atrocious, especially given we were both the home and the form team. I also don’t think it was unfair for people to criticise the line-up before kick off - as great a career he has had, Nugent has had his day and, for my money, has arguably been our most ineffectual player this season - I would love to know what Marriott has done.  Leeds won it on the day and rightly so, they were superior.

 

It was a penalty. No doubt in my mind, and Pawson did himself no favours by overturning that decision, but there was no guarantee we would have converted.  If your defence for losing is an incorrect penalty decision when you was on the backfoot most of the game, I always find it a bit week.

 

Klich, however, was unbelievable. Coming less than two weeks after Bamford’s theatrics and Leeds’ complaints about Hourihane, to so clearly headbutt another player with intent defies belief.  Those two incidents, alongside Bielsa’s ‘don’t kick the ball out’ policy (which I can appreciate to some extent) make it clear that Leeds are as dirty as ever.

 

All that being said, I’d be amazed if Villa don’t win the play offs, followed by Bielsa walking out...

[Brammie Steve]

10 hours ago, The middle man said:

I came on to see what the views were of Derby fans of yesterdays game involving our teams.

I then couldn't resist replying to what were in my opinion some ridiculous comments.

And here we are.

BTW, there were as many Derby players surrounding him as Leeds players, watch it again with the impartial glasses on.

I empathise with you as a proper supporter of your club.

Your team seems fated to be dogged by the 'Revie Legacy'

I was a young Popsider at the time and then, as now, he who was not for Leeds was against them.

Revie taking on the England job affected the Leeds machine almost as much as us losing Brian and Peter (still won the league again.

I concede the following:- 

We were fortunate to come away with only a one goal deficit.

Huddlestone should have got a red.

It wasn't a penalty.

All to play for still.

Let's have a trouble free second leg!

 

[Anon]

Yes, it was a penalty, but I wouldn't have blamed the ref for not spotting it. I didn't see the foul in real time and even voted no on this poll, before I watched the second video of the challenge. I'm struggling to understand how anyone can watch the second video and maintain that it wasn't a pen. Bogle is first to the ball and the Leeds players kicks the back of his leg before making contact with the ball. It sticks in the craw a little that the linesman overruled it. He is a pathetic little Berkshire hunt who barely even remembered to tell the referee about his imagined foul by Bogle, so intent was he on profusely apologising to the Leeds players for anyone having the temerity to give a decision against them.

Having said all that, I don't think we deserved a draw from the game, and even if we'd scored the penalty I'd expect Leeds to put us away in the second leg.

[Ghost of Clough]

11 hours ago, The middle man said:

Seriously fella, what replays are you watching? seriously?

There is zero contact, ZERO, Harrison gets a slither on the ball.

Is there a way to post video in here?

Now it's clear you're trolling - the contact is clear. The questions are: whether Bogle committed a foul by gently brushing Harrison's back; whether Bogle committed a foul by blocking Harrison from clearing the ball; or whether there was no foul at all. The reaction from Harrison after the penalty was awarded (and in the interview) gives you a big clue to the answers.

[Anon]

11 hours ago, The middle man said:

Seriously fella, what replays are you watching? seriously?

There is zero contact, ZERO, Harrison gets a slither on the ball.

Is there a way to post video in here?

 

On 12/05/2019 at 08:16, David said:

Not interested in the who should have played, how we played and did or didn’t we deserve anything from the game right now, just this penalty call and reversed decision

Penalty or not?

 

Second video.

[Animal is a Ram]

Gets the man before the ball, and it's from behind the man. 9/10 that's a foul anywhere on the pitch.

But if it's not a foul, it's a corner.

But I can live with a mistake. What I can't ignore, is that you have your mind changed. If you aren't sure, don't give it, speak to the linesman, then make your decision.

Also, whatever happened to showing yellows to players who surround the refs? That seemed to disappear very quickly.

It's gone now. We didn't deserve anything out of the game. Can we have the ref from the WBA game last week? He was excellent.

[Dethorn]

I voted Yes

My gut feeling at the moment it was given was not jumping in the air celebration of a nailed on pen

I was about 60:40 that it could be.

Then the referee pointed to the spot - cue the jumping around.

The only thing that was blatantly wrong was that the referee changed his mind for no good reason.

He could have given a penalty or a corner to them and stuck to it and I would not have had a problem with it.

As it is I feel he behaved like a Eunuch.

Agree with Frank VAR would not review it as it is not a clear and obvious error but the referee and linesman did a human VAR with no replay and that was just wrong.

[AndyinLiverpool]

10 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

I voted Yes

My gut feeling at the moment it was given was not jumping in the air celebration of a nailed on pen

I was about 60:40 that it could be.

Then the referee pointed to the spot - cue the jumping around.

The only thing that was blatantly wrong was that the referee changed his mind for no good reason.

He could have given a penalty or a corner to them and stuck to it and I would not have had a problem with it.

As it is I feel he behaved like a Eunuch.

Agree with Frank VAR would not review it as it is not a clear and obvious error but the referee and linesman did a human VAR with no replay and that was just wrong.

The referee didn't change his mind for no good reason. He changed it after consulting his assistant, which he is entitled to do. The assistant will have given his view and the referee will have taken that into account.

Just because you don't agree doesn't make it 'for no good reason'.

[Dethorn]

Ok I rephrase it, technically you are right 

The referee consulted his linesman for no good reason

unless you count being surrounding by whingeing dirties a good reason

[Dethorn]

As a side note I thought the ref had a stinker in general really.

1) no bookings first half - I find this incredible, cannot think of any particular incident but there were enough that I thought were a bit cynical on both sides, but that in itself is fair enough.

2) But when he did start brandishing his yellow card I felt it was inconsistent, especially when compared to what he let go in the first half.

3) The Tomori two footed lunge was bad, but he was miles from any player - so it is either a booking or nothing, not a retrospective talking to imho.

4) The headbutt, Am I wrong but the fact that he booked him meant he saw it and it cannot be reviewed. So what actually happened was the ref saw someone headbutt an opposition player and decided that the appropriate action for it was a booking.

5) The Huddlestone smash - did not give anything so can be looked at retrospectively.

6) I haven't even started on the spineless wonder around the penalty. I do not think any ref would give a penalty without consulting with their linesman unless they were sure, but he did, then he consulted with lino and had his mind changed.

 

I have not been aware of this guy until today but I am not impressed.

Inconsistent refereeing is killing the game

 

[JfR]

2 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

As a side note I thought the ref had a stinker in general really.

1) no bookings first half - I find this incredible, cannot think of any particular incident but there were enough that I thought were a bit cynical on both sides, but that in itself is fair enough.

2) But when he did start brandishing his yellow card I felt it was inconsistent, especially when compared to what he let go in the first half.

3) The Tomori two footed lunge was bad, but he was miles from any player - so it is either a booking or nothing, not a retrospective talking to imho.

4) The headbutt, Am I wrong but the fact that he booked him meant he saw it and it cannot be reviewed. So what actually happened was the ref saw someone headbutt an opposition player and decided that the appropriate action for it was a booking.

5) The Huddlestone smash - did not give anything so can be looked at retrospectively.

6) I haven't even started on the spineless wonder around the penalty. I do not think any ref would give a penalty without consulting with their linesman unless they were sure, but he did, then he consulted with lino and had his mind changed.

 

I have not been aware of this guy until today but I am not impressed.

Inconsistent refereeing is killing the game

 

He got a yellow for that, I think. Might have got away with that a little bit because the ref bottled it when punishing Klich.

[Shorty389]

2 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

 

4) The headbutt, Am I wrong but the fact that he booked him meant he saw it and it cannot be reviewed. So what actually happened was the ref saw someone headbutt an opposition player and decided that the appropriate action for it was a booking.

 

He didnt see it, and couldn't have seen it unless he has eyes in the back of his head as he was running in the opposite direction at the time. It was only after several players told.him that he then gave a yellow.... 

[Mafiabob]

6 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

As a side note I thought the ref had a stinker in general really.

1) no bookings first half - I find this incredible, cannot think of any particular incident but there were enough that I thought were a bit cynical on both sides, but that in itself is fair enough.

2) But when he did start brandishing his yellow card I felt it was inconsistent, especially when compared to what he let go in the first half.

3) The Tomori two footed lunge was bad, but he was miles from any player - so it is either a booking or nothing, not a retrospective talking to imho.

4) The headbutt, Am I wrong but the fact that he booked him meant he saw it and it cannot be reviewed. So what actually happened was the ref saw someone headbutt an opposition player and decided that the appropriate action for it was a booking.

5) The Huddlestone smash - did not give anything so can be looked at retrospectively.

6) I haven't even started on the spineless wonder around the penalty. I do not think any ref would give a penalty without consulting with their linesman unless they were sure, but he did, then he consulted with lino and had his mind changed.

 

I have not been aware of this guy until today but I am not impressed.

Inconsistent refereeing is killing the game

 

Last line is incorrect, players cheating and managers trying to win at all costs is.....

[JfR]

1 minute ago, Shorty389 said:

He didnt see it, and couldn't have seen it unless he has eyes in the back of his head as he was running in the opposite direction at the time. It was only after several players told.him that he then gave a yellow.... 

I think his assistant on that side told him through his headset what had happened.