Comrade 86 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: No not at all - the opposite. I'm just trying to draw parallels between Remain voters saying "if we leave the EU then x,y & z bad things might happen" and being shot down because we can't base our decisions on what might happen and Leave voters saying "if we leave the EU then x,y & z good things might happen" Can't you see that this argument can't work both ways? It's much like your Diane Abbot guff - if you want Labour voters to admit that what she said was racist against white people because it's the same as what the likes of Farage/Yaxley-Lennon/Boris have said - then you're admitting that those guys are racist too. Your argument is paradoxical. They are either both racist or none of them are racist. Which is it? Allow me to answer this one.... Yes but, no but, yes but, remoaners, Diane Abbot. Did I do it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: As always - a balanced answer and bonus points for not mentioning Corbyn, Labour or Remoaners. Other posters take note - it is possible @SchtivePesleygiveth. 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Obviously yes. But the tarrifs will no doubt be up for discussion. At which point we will discover quite how much of a premium British BMW owners are willing to pay for their chance to drive round in a twatmobile ....and @SchtivePesley taketh away. (Speaking as a twatmobile driver) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Obviously yes. But the tarrifs will no doubt be up for discussion. At which point we will discover quite how much of a premium British BMW owners are willing to pay for their chance to drive round in a twatmobile I bet you would order a green one. Envy is an ugly thing. My car is still cheaper when purchased in the USA and has incurred a 4% tariff on importation.. Plus increased logistics costs.. Hmmm. Market forces will determine the price. IMO car prices have been kept high and these manufacturers have profited from us for too long. You might be able to afford your ‘twit mobile’ in 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: @SchtivePesleygiveth. ....and @SchtivePesley taketh away. (Speaking as a twatmobile driver) ? Me too. Good though ain’t they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: It's your show. When can we expect to see the benefits coming through? Not sure what the timetable is. Depends what you class as benefits too I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: No not at all - the opposite. I'm just trying to draw parallels between Remain voters saying "if we leave the EU then x,y & z bad things might happen" and being shot down because we can't base our decisions on what might happen and Leave voters saying "if we leave the EU then x,y & z good things might happen" Can't you see that this argument can't work both ways? It's much like your Diane Abbot guff - if you want Labour voters to admit that what she said was racist against white people because it's the same as what the likes of Farage/Yaxley-Lennon/Boris have said - then you're admitting that those guys are racist too. Your argument is paradoxical. They are either both racist or none of them are racist. Which is it? Dianne Abbot guff? How old are you? As all of my views on racism are so a abhorrent I will let you advise all on whether they are all racist or none of them are racist. Bet we dont get an answer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Allow me to answer this one.... Yes but, no but, yes but, remoaners, Diane Abbot. Did I do it right? Brilliant. Missed your witty posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 45 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Any thoughts on this? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-bds-law-israel-boycott-divestment-sanctions-palestine-a9248801.html Planning to pass a law to ban councils from "imposing their own direct or indirect boycotts, disinvestment or sanctions campaigns against foreign countries" - which means councils can't enter into any contracts with people or companies that operate their own BDS rules Now I don't care which side of the Israel/Palestine argument you are on - the principle here is surely a violation of people's right to protest/freedom of expression? I don't think any individual is being banned from protesting! But why should some leftie leaning anti Semetic council be allowed to jeopardise a trade deal that would benefit the whole country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, ossieram said: I don't think any individual is being banned from protesting Correct - but they are being penalised, and themselves being effectively boycotted for their right to protest. Say a small business has a good contract with a local council which keeps them afloat. Should they be forced out of business by a law like this? You don't have to attack "lefties" over this - I was just feeling uncomfortable with the principle of banning councils from contracting with individuals based on an element of their human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 7 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: Given that most of the time during these negotiations we had May's team around the table who proved to be completely incompetent I wouldn't imagine we are anywhere close to the kind of overall deal we need. I think we should see what happens. I suspect part of Theresa Mays problem was they knew she was on a sticky wicket and took advantage of that. The biggest issue in all this, that no one ever mentions, is that they sell more to us than we do to them in balance of trade terms I think there will be movement if the EU is really looking for an EU deal rather than a deal that suits certain EU countries .. and there is a difference. But the EU also needs to keep itself whole and protect its vision which at the present time is a United States of Europe, but it wasn’t always that was it ? regardless of affiliation politically or whether you are leave or remain, it is going to be very interesting to see how it pans out now there is a Government that has a mandate. Interesting times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Curtains said: Yes. I feel excluded. I am sort of Conservative (ish) but wanted to remain. I am however glad that we have a majority government which in turn gives us a chance to play positively in a new functional formation. I wasn’t leave but now we are going to then I want to be behind the new management team (for now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I'll say what people on the left here don't want to. Views are my own. Other leftist commie momentum socialist loons may disagree. Diane Abbott, although probably a good / great local MP, was a terrible front bench candidate choice. However I believe that racism comes from a position of power rather than a position of weakness, so her comments, while still disappointing for me, aren't on the level of the anti Islam comments from the tories. However they still didn't sit well with me, so defending her comments was impossible. That's why I had to vote on policies not individuals. Her maths was just a mistake. Didn't like the diabetes defense, think it was probably an excuse to cover a mistake. If she'd just said, it was a long day, I got tired and cocked up, would it have mattered? She still would have been strung up for it to be honest, considering the press reaction to everything. Corbyn, Abbott etc. weren't the best team but they were no worse than the opposition. The relentless attack from the right wing press was disgraceful but expected, however I was surprised at the amount of energy the papers threw into it. I don't have an answer for the antisemitism thing. Any criticism of Israel seems to be equated with antisemitism, and endorsing their actions unequivocally is no position I want to be in. Sounds like there's a number of members in the ranks who should be removed for having extreme views. I hope they are the minority. I suspect there's as many oddballs in other parties, but being a swivel eyed loon attacking Islam isn't seen on the same terms for some reason. Again, press favour attacks only in one direction. Brexit was the killer. Support for leaving has not moved much. I'd have hated to see a Labour Brexit as I know it will be a disaster. Better for the tories to own the whole disaster start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Brilliant. Missed your witty posts. Said no one to G-Star. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I'll say what people on the left here don't want to. Views are my own. Other leftist commie momentum socialist loons may disagree. Diane Abbott, although probably a good / great local MP, was a terrible front bench candidate choice. However I believe that racism comes from a position of power rather than a position of weakness, so her comments, while still disappointing for me, aren't on the level of the anti Islam comments from the tories. However they still didn't sit well with me, so defending her comments was impossible. That's why I had to vote on policies not individuals. Her maths was just a mistake. Didn't like the diabetes defense, think it was probably an excuse to cover a mistake. If she'd just said, it was a long day, I got tired and cocked up, would it have mattered? She still would have been strung up for it to be honest, considering the press reaction to everything. Corbyn, Abbott etc. weren't the best team but they were no worse than the opposition. The relentless attack from the right wing press was disgraceful but expected, however I was surprised at the amount of energy the papers threw into it. I don't have an answer for the antisemitism thing. Any criticism of Israel seems to be equated with antisemitism, and endorsing their actions unequivocally is no position I want to be in. Sounds like there's a number of members in the ranks who should be removed for having extreme views. I hope they are the minority. I suspect there's as many oddballs in other parties, but being a swivel eyed loon attacking Islam isn't seen on the same terms for some reason. Again, press favour attacks only in one direction. Brexit was the killer. Support for leaving has not moved much. I'd have hated to see a Labour Brexit as I know it will be a disaster. Better for the tories to own the whole disaster start to finish. All fair points in my opinion. Regarding Abbott she was a rubbish choice for the front bench but I don't see how her gaffes were any worse than Dominic Raab who is now a cabinet minister being unable to grasp the importance of the British channel during the initial round of Brexit negotiations. It's only the busiest shipping lane on the planet mate. Or is it any worse than Priti Patel (who is a particularly revolting individual) comments on the death penalty? For what it's worth I was never a fan of Corbyn, he was the lesser of two evils for me because the Conservative cabinet that Johnson has put together is one of the most reprehensible groups of people I could imagine in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: Unable to grasp the importance of the British channel Im struggling with that too. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Van Wolfie said: @SchtivePesleygiveth. ....and @SchtivePesley taketh away. (Speaking as a twatmobile driver) ? 2 hours ago, Curtains said: Me too. Good though ain’t they. Whoooaaa! You mean guys don’t buy British? You too good to drive a fookin Mondeo are ya? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 May or may not be of interest but I'll stick this in here anyway: General Election 2019 Conservatives No. of votes = 13,966,565 No. of seats = 365 No. of votes per seat = 38,265 Share of vote = 43.6% (Seats if based on share of vote = 283) Labour No. of votes = 10,295,607 No. of seats = 203 No. of votes per seat = 50,717 Share of vote = 32.2% (Seats if based on share of vote = 209) Liberal Democrats No. of votes = 3,696,423 No. of seats = 11 No. of votes per seat = 336,038 Share of vote = 11.6% (Seats if based on share of vote = 75) SNP No. of votes = 1,242,372 No. of seats = 48 No. of votes per seat = 25,883 Share of vote = 3.9% (Seats if based on share of vote = 25) Green No. of votes = 865,697 No. of seats = 1 No. of votes per seat = 865,697 Share of vote = 2.7% (Seats if based on share of vote = 18) BREXIT No. of votes = 642,303 No. of seats = 0 No. of votes per seat = N/A Share of vote = 2% (Seats if based on share of vote = 13) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Angry Ram said: I bet you would order a green one. Envy is an ugly thing. My car is still cheaper when purchased in the USA and has incurred a 4% tariff on importation.. Plus increased logistics costs.. Hmmm. Market forces will determine the price. IMO car prices have been kept high and these manufacturers have profited from us for too long. You might be able to afford your ‘twit mobile’ in 2021. Not just car prices is it? The amount of times you see a purchase advertised in pounds and dollars, and the dollar price is cheaper or the same as sterling is very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, 1967Ram said: May or may not be of interest but I'll stick this in here anyway: General Election 2019 Conservatives No. of votes = 13,966,565 No. of seats = 365 No. of votes per seat = 38,265 Share of vote = 43.6% (Seats if based on share of vote = 283) Labour No. of votes = 10,295,607 No. of seats = 203 No. of votes per seat = 50,717 Share of vote = 32.2% (Seats if based on share of vote = 209) Liberal Democrats No. of votes = 3,696,423 No. of seats = 11 No. of votes per seat = 336,038 Share of vote = 11.6% (Seats if based on share of vote = 75) SNP No. of votes = 1,242,372 No. of seats = 48 No. of votes per seat = 25,883 Share of vote = 3.9% (Seats if based on share of vote = 25) Green No. of votes = 865,697 No. of seats = 1 No. of votes per seat = 865,697 Share of vote = 2.7% (Seats if based on share of vote = 18) BREXIT No. of votes = 642,303 No. of seats = 0 No. of votes per seat = N/A Share of vote = 2% (Seats if based on share of vote = 13) That right there says it all really. Heard a lot of bleating about the death of democracy from some quarters recently but I doubt they’ll be moaning about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, 1967Ram said: May or may not be of interest but I'll stick this in here anyway: General Election 2019 Conservatives No. of votes = 13,966,565 No. of seats = 365 No. of votes per seat = 38,265 Share of vote = 43.6% (Seats if based on share of vote = 283) Labour No. of votes = 10,295,607 No. of seats = 203 No. of votes per seat = 50,717 Share of vote = 32.2% (Seats if based on share of vote = 209) Liberal Democrats No. of votes = 3,696,423 No. of seats = 11 No. of votes per seat = 336,038 Share of vote = 11.6% (Seats if based on share of vote = 75) SNP No. of votes = 1,242,372 No. of seats = 48 No. of votes per seat = 25,883 Share of vote = 3.9% (Seats if based on share of vote = 25) Green No. of votes = 865,697 No. of seats = 1 No. of votes per seat = 865,697 Share of vote = 2.7% (Seats if based on share of vote = 18) BREXIT No. of votes = 642,303 No. of seats = 0 No. of votes per seat = N/A Share of vote = 2% (Seats if based on share of vote = 13) Sometimes you wonder, don't know if its ever happened but i guess its entirely possible for a party to get the largest share of the vote but actually get less seats. If seats were allocated on the basis you have said would anyone ever get a majority? I don't know what other voting methods entail but if we were to move towards a system where seats are awarded on vote share would we have to have elimination stages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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