The Politics Thread 2019

[G STAR RAM]

14 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I've always worried that Johnson is itching for war, just so he can play the hardman. His continual wartime references whilst negotiating a trade deal with our European friends is vile.

Was you one of the ones saying the same about Trump? WWIII within months?

Anyway Boris hasnt got time for wars, hes busy selling off the NHS.

[Angry Ram]

38 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Its getting a bit personal now on here.  Suggesting other posters behave, or will behave in a racist way is out of order.  Surprised the moderators have allowed some posts to remain.

I think Boris Johnsons comments in the past are dubious,  surprised really he ever got to be party leader, but he is and was the strongest leader of the main parties. 

Is he racist?  In the true sense of the word i dont think so. I would probably describe him more as pompous, idiotic at times. He certainly is not the sort of person i could ever imagine myself having a pint with.

The fact hes the best person for the job right now probably says more about the others than it does him.

Is he a better leader than theresa may?  Yep, a better person,  no chance. 

Is he a better person than corbyn, Abbot?  I don't know,  i wouldn’t like to spend time with any of them.

You used the word ‘pompous’ ... Arghhhhhh...

[Sith Happens]

6 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Whilst we weren't personally responsible for what the West did in places like Africa and Middle East, we still happily elect governments that continue the status quo ie sell arms to regimes like Saudis so they will sell us oil, invade places like Libya then leg it when it becomes even worse, arm and train freedom fighters in Afghanistan then wonder why they turn into terrorists, assist leaders like Saddam who uses chemical weapons vs Iranians then bomb loads of Iraqi civilians where our oil supply is threatened, turn a blind eye to genocide in Rwanda etc etc.

The part about Corbyn I liked is that there was chance we could do good on the world stage for a change. He got slated for saying he couldn't nuke another country and kill tens of thousands of innocent people. Nor could I.

I've always worried that Johnson is itching for war, just so he can play the hardman. His continual wartime references whilst negotiating a trade deal with our European friends is vile.

My question was more in relation to the past and our history with other races.

Im not about to defend our actions in the middle east. I am not sure even Tony Blair was itching for war however.

There does seem to be momentum in making 'white' people feel guilty for the past. White privilege a topic which comes up regularly. 

We seem to want to beat ourselves up. Do you think Germans beat themselves up? Many won't even acknowledge their atrocities. 

I mighty be burying my head, but sometimes you can onlt judge the person you are and not judge ourselves on the actions of others. 

[Sith Happens]

1 minute ago, Angry Ram said:

You used the word ‘pompous’ ... Arghhhhhh...

Hate me. ?

[Angry Ram]

2 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Hate me. ?

Long story... 

[GB SPORTS]

19 hours ago, RamNut said:

Really? I thought he was arguing the women should be free to not wear them. I.e. They were a symbol of oppression.

It is big leap from saying people should be free not wear them and implying they were a symbol of oppression.

[GB SPORTS]

47 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Typical leftwing rag sky init.

yep

[Uptherams]

PewDiePie is right. 

[ossieram]

33 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

PewDiePie is right. 

Who?

 

[jono]

On 14/12/2019 at 12:22, GboroRam said:

Maybe you are right, but I don't see the SWP as anything more than a group of meaningless idiots. Maybe you view Antifa like I view the organised far right, and you view the organised far right like I view Antifa. Who's right? Maybe both, maybe neither, maybe something in the middle. 

I don’t honestly know.
 

But the SWP are free to have their little stands spouting their stuff on St Peters street every now and again. It’s a bit meh or whatever for me,  But let’s face it if the EDL were there doing the same thing we’d all be horrified. Then dial in how many SWP members or supporters are now members of the Labour Party and you will see what the real problem is within the Labour Party and why it lost an election .. sure Brexit was the biggest issue and sure some Brexit supporters are bigots but actually a great chunk of ordinary people with moderate views who might vote left or right of centre depending on how the cookie is crumbling at any one time - did an anything but Momentum/SWP thing ..... the people are not stupid.

Boris isn’t a crypto fascist, Trump following numpty, or up for selling the NHS. And the BBC / press conspiracy against Corbyn was a joke for the deluded 

The Mail hates Labour and will fib and exaggerate copiously, Paint it blue and the Telegraph will vote for it. The Sun and white van man are mates, the Mirror has a delightful red tinted specs, and the BBC is the Guardian..  on the airwaves. .. bog standard British politics. Twitter and Facebook are great fun for those who enjoy ranting, fantasy and alternative facts. 

 

[GboroRam]

3 minutes ago, jono said:

I don’t honestly know.
 

But the SWP are free to have their little stands spouting their stuff on St Peters street every now and again. It’s a bit meh or whatever for me,  But let’s face it if the EDL were there doing the same thing we’d all be horrified. Then dial in how many SWP members or supporters are now members of the Labour Party and you will see what the real problem is within the Labour Party and why it lost an election .. sure Brexit was the biggest issue and sure some Brexit supporters are bigots but actually a great chunk of ordinary people with moderate views who might vote left or right of centre depending on how the cookie is crumbling at any one time - did an anything but Momentum/SWP thing ..... the people are not stupid.

Boris isn’t a crypto fascist, Trump following numpty, or up for selling the NHS. And the BBC / press conspiracy against Corbyn was a joke for the deluded 

The Mail hates Labour and will fib and exaggerate copiously, Paint it blue and the Telegraph will vote for it. The Sun and white van man are mates, the Mirror has a delightful red tinted specs, and the BBC is the Guardian..  on the airwaves. .. bog standard British politics. Twitter and Facebook are great fun for those who enjoy ranting, fantasy and alternative facts. 

 

The EDL are nationalists and promote anti foreigner hostility. That's why I'm opposed to them having a march through town. The SWP aren't part of Labour (unless they've changed a lot since I paid them any attention) because Labour aren't left wing enough for them. They are the Socialist Workers "Party", not Socialist faction of Labour. 

Labour aren't hard left, even with Corbyn. I'm still sure those policies weren't the cause of the failure. Brexit, and a front bench the electorate didn't trust or like, with antisemitism a distant third place, were the big vote losers. 

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

The EDL are nationalists and promote anti foreigner hostility. That's why I'm opposed to them having a march through town. The SWP aren't part of Labour (unless they've changed a lot since I paid them any attention) because Labour aren't left wing enough for them. They are the Socialist Workers "Party", not Socialist faction of Labour. 

Labour aren't hard left, even with Corbyn. I'm still sure those policies weren't the cause of the failure. Brexit, and a front bench the electorate didn't trust or like, with antisemitism a distant third place, were the big vote losers. 

I posted a video near the top of page 590, what is your reponse to that?

[GboroRam]

13 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I posted a video near the top of page 590, what is your reponse to that?

Can't see a video on page 590. I guess you mean the "not my prime minister" protest.. Didn't watch it. There's some frustrated people who groups like the SWP will latch on to. 

Is it a nationalistic march? I guess not. Are they doing more harm than good? Once they turn violent, yes - but the police love to kettle the protesters for a few hours, then retaliate when the bored, angry protesters start on the police. 

I support peaceful protest but I've seen peaceful protests cynically turned violent by the actions of the police. 

[maxjam]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

Can't see a video on page 590. 

 

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 hours ago, Curtains said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2015/09/why-ive-finally-given-up-on-the-left/amp/

Curtains - have you actually read anything since 2015? ?

[uttoxram75]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-workers-rights-environment-climate-change-election-a9248611.html

Boris Johnson has fuelled fears that workers’ rights and environmental safeguards will be ditched after Brexit after the government watered down a promise to enshrine them in law.

Downing Street suggested that the prime minister is no longer committed to pledges, made to MPs before the general election, to guarantee that standards will not be weakened when Britain leaves the EU.

The pledges were made by Mr Johnson and his team in October as they attempted to convince MPs to vote for the prime minister’s Brexit deal.

 

I sincerely hope this is sensationalist journalism, but deep down, in my old socialist heart, I know its true....I am genuinely sad for the future of my country. 

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

13 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-workers-rights-environment-climate-change-election-a9248611.html

Boris Johnson has fuelled fears that workers’ rights and environmental safeguards will be ditched after Brexit after the government watered down a promise to enshrine them in law.

Downing Street suggested that the prime minister is no longer committed to pledges, made to MPs before the general election, to guarantee that standards will not be weakened when Britain leaves the EU.

The pledges were made by Mr Johnson and his team in October as they attempted to convince MPs to vote for the prime minister’s Brexit deal.

 

I sincerely hope this is sensationalist journalism, but deep down, in my old socialist heart, I know its true....I am genuinely sad for the future of my country. 

 

I read a piece by fintan o'toole who was attempting to analyse why boris Johnson keeps repeating the line that goods from the uk mainland to northern Ireland will not be subject to any form of customs checks.

The conclusion he reached was that either....

Bojo didn't understand what he had signed. 

Bojo knew full well the implications of his deal on Ireland but gambled that England simply wouldn't care.

Tbh i don't know which is worse.....

[Angry Ram]

5 hours ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I read a piece by fintan o'toole who was attempting to analyse why boris Johnson keeps repeating the line that goods from the uk mainland to northern Ireland will not be subject to any form of customs checks.

The conclusion he reached was that either....

Bojo didn't understand what he had signed. 

Bojo knew full well the implications of his deal on Ireland but gambled that England simply wouldn't care.

Tbh i don't know which is worse.....

Oi Oi, the accounts department are awake everyone.. Welcome back to the thread. ?

[Curtains]

 

[GboroRam]

9 hours ago, maxjam said:

 

 

I can't speak for Momentum because believe it or not, I'm not a Labour member (was, now I've lapsed) and I've never been a party activist. Supporter yes, but never actively involved. But for me that's not acceptable, mainly because it's counterproductive. It might feel like fun, go harass some right wing MP and his supporters - but you need to build support for the alternative, not just attack what you don't agree with.

I get the feeling that there's a lot of youth involved in Momentum and they perhaps fail to see the damage they do as they can't see that there's 12m Conservative voters who need to be won over to a different way of thinking. 

Can't condone any of the things that IDS talks about. I'm all for giving him and his supporters a hard time, but that should be based on the policies that his government have put in place, and lets be honest there's enough of them to go with. That kind of behaviour polarises people, it doesn't win any arguments. Same as rioting in demonstrations - for the converted it's a good laugh. For the unconverted it just puts them off.