The Politics Thread 2019

[GboroRam]

11 minutes ago, Spanish said:

currently there is no expectation of a visa requirement.  Having said that, NZ didn't have one until a few weeks ago.  IMO it is possible that with a schengen frontier to cross that the need for a visa will at some time be enforced

And the stupid thing is, I don't really care if there's a visa. I'd like reciprocal rights in the EU - health benefits, employment rights etc.

I don't really have an issue about needing to apply to travel, if I'm honest, even if it is a bit of a pain. 

My comment was a flippant joke.

[Curtains]

37 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

First line:

Travel to the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Liechtenstein will change if the UK leaves the EU with no deal.

Out of context 

You really manipulate the Facts

What does it say about cruises. 

https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-brexit

[Wolfie]

10 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

So we've been fixating on an empty threat? 

IMO yes.

10 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I'm sure the remainers were saying we need a deal, and that no deal is crazy. Sadly some people seem to really think no deal is the best option.

It isn't.

We don't want it. EU don't want it. there will be months of bluster & stuff but there will be an agreement - but probably at the last minute, as I've said before.

[jono]

11 hours ago, cstand said:

However the main factor was he would bankrupt the country.  

This is my favourite cross party issue.

We are still loaded with debt. I’m not blaming Blair, Brown, Bankers or anyone. They all share some blame as do a lot of us for borrowing so much.

I think so few of us acknowledge that all the good stuff that happened from the end of the first war to the early 50’s - votes for women, pensions, the NHS, worker protections even grammar schools that helped to promote able people that weren’t from Eton and the old elite. All this happened when we had a degree of money in the bank in terms of industry and exports relative to everyone else.so in essence not only should we have done it, we could afford to. 

Post war recovery in the 60’s and then North Sea oil kept us going but now ? ... when did we last have a trade surplus ? I.e. a surplus of income over expenditure ? 
 

I am not advocating austerity - it’s a catch phrase in left / right politics. I am just advancing the fact that we don’t generate enough wealth externally to be able to have all the things that we want internally .. None of that is a party issue it’s just hard fact and no party has an honest solution 
 

 

[Spanish]

56 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

And the stupid thing is, I don't really care if there's a visa. I'd like reciprocal rights in the EU - health benefits, employment rights etc.

I don't really have an issue about needing to apply to travel, if I'm honest, even if it is a bit of a pain. 

My comment was a flippant joke.

Wasn't having a dig.  I am directly affected by all this given I am British but a legal res of Spain and travel across a Schengen frontier daily.  I hope there is a visa requirement then I can cross the frontier as a known person.  

[Stive Pesley]

26 minutes ago, jono said:

I am just advancing the fact that we don’t generate enough wealth externally to be able to have all the things that we want internally .. None of that is a party issue it’s just hard fact and no party has an honest solution 

Good points - it's also very difficult because people generally seem under the illusion that it's all fine and will continue to be fine, so when a party does come along with radical ideas to try and change things, there is no appetite amongst the general public to do so

And before I get more anti-corbyn rants from the usual suspects, I'm in no way saying that the Labour manifesto would have sorted anything, but at least they were willing to try. I'm just pointing out that when a party does come up with an honest solution (as you put it) - will they even be able to sell it?

Too many people invested in the status quo. Consumers & small business because low interest rates mean cheap borrowing, and Corporations and the wealthy because they are the main benefactors of neoliberalism 

 

[Stive Pesley]

4 hours ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I had a mate who used to do some odd things when his blood sugar levels were low. His mother even had to call the police when he was behaving particularly erratically. People are very prone to making mistakes in that condition.

Absolutely - I'm a trained first-aider at work and they teach you that one of the first signs of a hypoglycemic attack is people appearing confused and muddling speech/appearing drunk.

However, people find it hard to have empathy with those that they already dislike.

 

 

[Spanish]

15 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Absolutely - I'm a trained first-aider at work and they teach you that one of the first signs of a hypoglycemic attack is people appearing confused and muddling speech/appearing drunk.However, people find it hard
to have empathy with those that they already dislike.

 

never a truer word written on here on whichever thread you look at

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Would you like to make a list of them, as apart from the obvious one (about police numbers) I don't remember many. 

Not ignoring this request, busy at work today.

All I'm going to be doing is copying and pasting items from Google, so if you want the evidence of her gaffes probably just as easy for you to Google them.

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Absolutely - I'm a trained first-aider at work and they teach you that one of the first signs of a hypoglycemic attack is people appearing confused and muddling speech/appearing drunk.

However, people find it hard to have empathy with those that they already dislike.

 

 

I dont dislike Dianne Abbott, dont know the woman.

I dislike some of the things that she has been attributed as saying.

I don't think she comes across very well in interviews and based on that do not think she would be a good representative for government. Away from the cameras she may be a very intelligent woman but I get the impression she has got to where she has for other reasons...I may be completely wrong.

Do you think it's a good idea giving such a high profile position to someone who may be prone to such regular attacks?

[jono]

@SchtivePesley.. cheers Stiv, the only thing I’d say is that “neoliberal” is really a misused word that the left love because it paints a picture of a careless elite 

Our system on government is not neoliberal .. We have a welfare state, we have state pensions, we have regulation and a zillion other things that are not neoliberal. To use it in the context of any Western European government just isn’t accurate 

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not ignoring this request, busy at work today.

All I'm going to be doing is copying and pasting items from Google, so if you want the evidence of her gaffes probably just as easy for you to Google them.

I had a look. I wouldn't say there were no numeracy rooster-ups, but most of them are tenuous at best. Like when she said Labour had increased the number of seats by 50 when it was over 100 - as a general comment it was just to say the number of seats had risen significantly.

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

He was just torn apart by his own party yesterday and the fool and his followers are still in denial..

Whilst I can't disagree, maybe now the battle is won you can stop with the sniping against Corbyn and consider the following point.

Things were so bad after Miliband lost the 2015 election that Corbyn came from the back-benches and won the Labour leadership (twice). The membership was energised by the thought of an outsider to the shadow cabinet coming in and shaking things up. Half a million people joined the party. He made major gains at the 2017 election, and even though it was a historically poor result last week, he still got over ten million votes.

That's a huge chunk of the electorate and if this election has taught us anything, it's the disenfranchising a large part of the electorate is a major mistake. It doesn't feel like laughing at 10 million people and saying they are "in denial" is where we should be as human beings

 

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

10 minutes ago, jono said:

@SchtivePesley.. cheers Stiv, the only thing I’d say is that “neoliberal” is really a misused word that the left love because it paints a picture of a careless elite 

Our system on government is not neoliberal .. We have a welfare state, we have state pensions, we have regulation and a zillion other things that are not neoliberal. To use it in the context of any Western European government just isn’t accurate 

Semantics I know - I was really referring specifically to the neoliberal policies that benefit the corporations/elites. I accept that there is plenty of non-neoliberal stuff 

The bits that Wikipedia defines thus: 

Quote

Neoliberalism is generally associated with policies of economic liberalization, including privatization, deregulation, free trade, austerity, and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society

However - noting that the next sentence says

Quote

 the defining features of neoliberalism in both thought and practice have been the subject of substantial scholarly debate.[15][16]

I think they're talking about us!

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I had a look. I wouldn't say there were no numeracy rooster-ups, but most of them are tenuous at best. Like when she said Labour had increased the number of seats by 50 when it was over 100 - as a general comment it was just to say the number of seats had risen significantly.

The same as when the bus said we send £350m a week to the EU then? As a general comment it was just to say that we send a lot of money to the EU. 

[GboroRam]

57 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The same as when the bus said we send £350m a week to the EU then? As a general comment it was just to say that we send a lot of money to the EU. 

Sort of. But then again, not really.

Post up a list and I'll weigh them up on their merits.

[G STAR RAM]

49 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Sort of. But then again, not really.

Post up a list and I'll weigh them up on their merits.

That last comment was a joke by the way.

[i-Ram]

4 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Well, that wasn't anything to be surprised about. There's a massive division between the membership, the PLP and the leadership. The PLP are out of step, not anyone else. 

This makes me laugh so much.  The PLP are the ones who serve the electorate, Labour’s elected representatives in the constituencies looking to help and appeal to the ‘working class’.  You discount them like they don’t matter, just the same as Momentum and the Leadership - student politics at its worst. Wake the duck up.

@ariotofmyown makes a case for Jess Phillips (or Lisa Nandy) as next Leaders. They have little chance. The toxic membership and Momentum might offer them some token positions, but they will want another ‘Jeremy’ when he finally goes.  If it’s lipstick that is needed then you are going to get Rebecca Long-Bailey. At least she looks like a student.

[GboroRam]

Just now, i-Ram said:

This makes me laugh so much.  The PLP are the ones who serve the electorate, Labour’s elected representatives in the constituencies looking to help and appeal to the ‘working class’.  You discount them like they don’t matter, just the same as Momentum and the Leadership - student politics at its worst. Wake the duck up.

@ariotofmyown makes a case for Jess Phillips (or Lisa Nandy) as next Leaders. They have little chance. The toxic membership and Momentum might offer them some token positions, but they will want another ‘Jeremy’ when he finally goes.  If it’s lipstick that is needed then you are going to get Rebecca Long-Bailey. At least she looks like a student.

I want a party that stands for what the members want, not what the MPs want (which often is to line their pockets).

[i-Ram]

2 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I want a party that stands for what the members want, not what the MPs want (which often is to line their pockets).

You want an exclusive members club.   I get it.