The Politics Thread 2019

[Comrade 86]

2 hours ago, cstand said:

No idea what you are on about any pension earned is payable when you leave as with any other job. 

He has campaigned to leave the EU which means he gets LESS money.

Farage has highlighted millions wasted by the EU over the years with staff retiring early on full pay and moving the European parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg which costs €100,000,000 a year. This saving would pay for his pension many times over and others plus change for good causes but the EU decided to ignore him and waste all that money but that is the madness of the EU. 

 

Clueless. Anyone else actually has to turn up to work to avoid losing their job, let alone be paid a huge pension. And if your going to bang on about wasted EU funds what about the money reclaimed from Farage who effectively embezzled £35 grand for an employee not even working on EU matters. Yeah, good old Nige. Always fighting for the little guy! From the article linked below:

Mr Farage, who has one of the worst attendance records in the history of the European Parliament, is already one of the best-paid MEPs because of his lucrative media contracts. He has declared his outside earnings to be between €590,048 and €790,000.

He's milked the EU for every penny he could get his grubby little mitts on, then bangs on endlessly about wasted funding. Absolute Bamford!

https://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/brexiter-mep-nigel-farage-entitled-to-172-000-payout-from-eu-1.811732

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/12/nigel-farage-eu-salary-docked-claim-misspent-public-funds

Here's a quick re-visit to the video of the utterly chinless wonder trying to laugh it off as he gets absolutely ruined by Guy Verhofstadt over his criticism of EU Parliament salaries. He's been mugging the likes of you off for years now ut he smokes and likes a pint so he's a man of the people, right! 
 

Really wish you'd actually think about what you post occasionally as most of your output wholly without basis in fact and frankly, embarrassing. ?

[cstand]

19 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Clueless. Anyone else actually has to turn up to work to avoid losing their job, let alone be paid a huge pension. And if your going to bang on about wasted EU funds what about the money reclaimed from Farage who effectively embezzled £35 grand for an employee not even working on EU matters. Yeah, good old Nige. Always fighting for the little guy! From the article linked below:

Mr Farage, who has one of the worst attendance records in the history of the European Parliament, is already one of the best-paid MEPs because of his lucrative media contracts. He has declared his outside earnings to be between €590,048 and €790,000.

He's milked the EU for every penny he could get his grubby little mitts on, then bangs on endlessly about wasted funding. Absolute Bamford!

https://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/brexiter-mep-nigel-farage-entitled-to-172-000-payout-from-eu-1.811732

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/12/nigel-farage-eu-salary-docked-claim-misspent-public-funds

Here's a quick re-visit to the video of the utterly chinless wonder trying to laugh it off as he gets absolutely ruined by Guy Verhofstadt over his criticism of EU Parliament salaries. He's been mugging the likes of you off for years now ut he smokes and likes a pint so he's a man of the people, right! 
 

Really wish you'd actually think about what you post occasionally as most of your output wholly without basis in fact and frankly, embarrassing. ?

The embarrassment is all yours €114,000,000 wasted EVERY year in fact by the EU for moving the parliament and never mentioned in your reply to my post incredible!!! How much are you happy for the EU to waste EVERY year billions??

 

 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, cstand said:

The embarrassment is all yours €114,000,000 wasted EVERY year in fact by the EU for moving the parliament and never mentioned in your reply to my post incredible!!! How much are you happy for the EU to waste EVERY year billions??

Why should I be embarrassed about what the EU do or don't do? You've really got no idea have you? Never mind pal.

[cstand]

38 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Why should I be embarrassed about what the EU do or don't do? You've really got no idea have you? Never mind pal.

You went into great detail about Farage wasting 35k but not bothered about the EU wasting 114 million a year every year. Hope you are not an accountant.

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Clueless. Anyone else actually has to turn up to work to avoid losing their job, let alone be paid a huge pension. And if your going to bang on about wasted EU funds what about the money reclaimed from Farage who effectively embezzled £35 grand for an employee not even working on EU matters. Yeah, good old Nige. Always fighting for the little guy! From the article linked below:

Mr Farage, who has one of the worst attendance records in the history of the European Parliament, is already one of the best-paid MEPs because of his lucrative media contracts. He has declared his outside earnings to be between €590,048 and €790,000.

He's milked the EU for every penny he could get his grubby little mitts on, then bangs on endlessly about wasted funding. Absolute Bamford!

https://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/brexiter-mep-nigel-farage-entitled-to-172-000-payout-from-eu-1.811732

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/12/nigel-farage-eu-salary-docked-claim-misspent-public-funds

Here's a quick re-visit to the video of the utterly chinless wonder trying to laugh it off as he gets absolutely ruined by Guy Verhofstadt over his criticism of EU Parliament salaries. He's been mugging the likes of you off for years now ut he smokes and likes a pint so he's a man of the people, right! 
 

Really wish you'd actually think about what you post occasionally as most of your output wholly without basis in fact and frankly, embarrassing. ?

It's a shame you cant see the irony of the video that you have posted.

All the Euro MPs clapping that clown for pointing out that they are paying a ridiculous salary to someone for doing nothing. Sums the EU up.

You claim that Farage mugs people off, I think many would say it is the likes of Verhofstadt doing the mugging off.

[uttoxram75]

Looking back through the right wing party manifestos I'm struggling to find any reference to privatising the NHS, a policy the Brexit Party, UKIP, Conservative, etc, are in favour of. (or at least their financial backers are in favour of)

No one is putting it forward as a great idea yet all the right wing groups are in favour of it. Any of us who campaign for a publically owned and run Health service are called Lefties, socialists or commies yet no one on the right openly demands or campaigns for a private health system.

What do the right wingers on the forum think of the basic premise of having an NHS. Do you believe a private insurance based health system is better for the majority of British people or is the NHS something we should fight for?

 

 

 

 

[Comrade 86]

59 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

It's a shame you cant see the irony of the video that you have posted.

All the Euro MPs clapping that clown for pointing out that they are paying a ridiculous salary to someone for doing nothing. Sums the EU up.

You claim that Farage mugs people off, I think many would say it is the likes of Verhofstadt doing the mugging off.

Of course you do mate. 

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Of course you do mate. 

Well thought out response, doesn't make sense unfortunately.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

It's a shame you cant see the irony of the video that you have posted.

All the Euro MPs clapping that clown for pointing out that they are paying a ridiculous salary to someone for doing nothing. Sums the EU up.

You claim that Farage mugs people off, I think many would say it is the likes of Verhofstadt doing the mugging off.

Well 17 million voted that way so it's not exactly an earth-shattering revelation is it mate? And no it's not ironic at all. Not even a smidgen of irony there (you might want to think about it a little) but let's not dwell on that too much. I think the whole world and his brother would know you'd leap to Farage's defence with some pithy response or other and you've not disapointed. Suffice to say you've never really grasped my stance on the EU though you've clearly managed to figure out my thinking on Farage so I guess that's a start.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

Looking back through the right wing party manifestos I'm struggling to find any reference to privatising the NHS, a policy the Brexit Party, UKIP, Conservative, etc, are in favour of. (or at least their financial backers are in favour of)

No one is putting it forward as a great idea yet all the right wing groups are in favour of it. Any of us who campaign for a publically owned and run Health service are called Lefties, socialists or commies yet no one on the right openly demands or campaigns for a private health system.

What do the right wingers on the forum think of the basic premise of having an NHS. Do you believe a private insurance based health system is better for the majority of British people or is the NHS something we should fight for?

Do you have anything to back up the first 2 paragraphs?

Guess I'm what you would describe as right wing. (Personally see myself as a Tom Lawrence, that can play on the wing or drift inside!)

Personally, think the NHS has to be preserved but needs a major overhaul. Too many people that have not contributed taking advantage of it and money for stupid things being wasted while serious things overlooked.

If the government are not capable of running it efficiently then privatising is the best option.

 

[G STAR RAM]

13 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Well 17 million voted that way so it's not exactly an earth-shattering revelation is it mate? And no it's not ironic at all. Not even a smidgen of irony there (you might want to think about it a little) but let's not dwell on that too much. I think the whole world and his brother would know you'd leap to Farage's defence with some pithy response or other and you've not disapointed. Suffice to say you've never really grasped my stance on the EU though you've clearly managed to figure out my thinking on Farage so I guess that's a start.

Not sure I've mentioned Farage in my post have I? You read too much into things I haven't said.

Suffice to say, you've never really grasped my stance on Farage, I can take him or leave him. I'm grateful that his campaigning has opened up peoples eyes to how corrupt the EU really is, if he's made millions from it through corruption then that just underlines the point.

Let's be honest, IF we ever leave the EU Farage is finished anyway so no need to worry about him anymore.

[Comrade 86]

36 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure I've mentioned Farage in my post have I? You read too much into things I haven't said.

 

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You claim that Farage mugs people off, I think many would say it is the likes of Verhofstadt doing the mugging off.

Anyway, this is really going nowhere unsurprisingly, so I shall bid you a good evening and retire to safer waters before I say something that gets the thread pulled or earns me another enforced 'holiday'.

[McRamFan]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

If the government are not capable of running it efficiently then privatising is the best option.

They do not run the NHS. They massively underfund it, sub contract out services that are quick and simple to carry out (look up Nottingham). Force unrealistic targets, and fine the trusts for not hitting them. Underfund emerency, elderly and youth mental health services.

For example, if you are 16 and have a mental health illness, you may be spending the night in a cell, being checked on ever 30mins, or in a hospitalisation case, in children's A&E, with a police officer and A&E nurse in full attendance, thus depleting an already stretched service.  That's if your local hospital can find the staff to open an A&E 24hrs.

Then if the 16 year old requires 24/7 care they can end up 200 miles away in a private care home, payed for by the NHS, at over the top fees.  Guess what party let that get set up?

 

[alexxxxx]

Not at all related to UK politics but this Hong Kong protest movement seems like its gonna boil over into something quite dangerous soon. 

[1967Ram]

31 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Not at all related to UK politics but this Hong Kong protest movement seems like its gonna boil over into something quite dangerous soon. 

Unfortunately, I reckon you're right Alexxxxxx. Fingers crossed it gets sorted peacefully though.

[bcnram]

15 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Looking back through the right wing party manifestos I'm struggling to find any reference to privatising the NHS, a policy the Brexit Party, UKIP, Conservative, etc, are in favour of. (or at least their financial backers are in favour of)

No one is putting it forward as a great idea yet all the right wing groups are in favour of it. Any of us who campaign for a publically owned and run Health service are called Lefties, socialists or commies yet no one on the right openly demands or campaigns for a private health system.

What do the right wingers on the forum think of the basic premise of having an NHS. Do you believe a private insurance based health system is better for the majority of British people or is the NHS something we should fight for?

 

 

 

 

I don't think any political party would privatise the NHS and certainly not go down the private insurance based route. I think when politics gets divided as it has been just lately, so many things get exaggerated on all sides. There is no doubt that because it is such a huge organisation, that it needs to be tightly controlled to avoid some of the waste that happens. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be over blessed with managerial talent to do this effectively. 

All this right winger / left winger stuff as it is now gets to me. I crave a middle ground. I was even happy to have a Labour government under that nice Mr Blair.

[Stive Pesley]

21 hours ago, bcnram said:

All this right winger / left winger stuff as it is now gets to me. I crave a middle ground.

Herein lies the issue. The middle ground has failed too many people. There is a tipping point  -when the centrist view is working for the majority, then it gets to continue easily (via democracy). Once it starts to fail more people than it works for, those being failed by it start to want to see it fixed/changed

By definition, to change it, it has to be pulled one way or the other - hence the great polarisation we are starting to see between the "left" (who want to change the centre ground to be fairer to everyone regardless of their characteristics) and the "right" (who want to change the centre ground to be fairer towards only those that they feel deserve fairer treatment)

Meanwhile, for those who (currently) the centre ground is working for, seem baffled and long for the continuation of the status quo. But the trouble is it can't stay the same while ever it is failing so many people. That's the paradox

Ironically the right and left factions do have a centre ground on which they largely agree - and that is that the current system is messed up and had been totally abused by those in power for years and years. Nobody on either side can justify the obscene wealth being horded by the ultra-rich in tax havens

 

 

 

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

Herein lies the issue. The middle ground has failed too many people. There is a tipping point  -when the centrist view is working for the majority, then it gets to continue easily (via democracy). Once it starts to fail more people than it works for, those being failed by it start to want to see it fixed/changed

I think if it wasn't for the financial crisis, we'd still be in a largely centrist world now. Once that happened, and with the rapid rise of global (chinese) and online competition for business, everyone was looking for someone to blame and things became polarised.

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

By definition, to change it, it has to be pulled one way or the other - hence the great polarisation we are starting to see between the "left" (who want to change the centre ground to be fairer to everyone regardless of their characteristics) and the "right" (who want to change the centre ground to be fairer towards only those that they feel deserve fairer treatment)

So, left "fair" = good & right "fair" = bad.

"Fairness" isn't a good measure of anything because it's completely subjective.

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

I think if it wasn't for the financial crisis, we'd still be in a largely centrist world now. Once that happened, and with the rapid rise of global (chinese) and online competition for business, everyone was looking for someone to blame and things became polarised.

So, left "fair" = good & right "fair" = bad.

"Fairness" isn't a good measure of anything because it's completely subjective.

 

Is not defined, so agree that you cannot use it to measure, just object.

[GboroRam]

3 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

So, left "fair" = good & right "fair" = bad.

"Fairness" isn't a good measure of anything because it's completely subjective.

 

I think the definitions would probably fit what each side themselves feel they are aiming for.