The Politics Thread 2019

[McRamFan]

1 hour ago, ramit said:

i much prefer Trump to Obama.  He is the unabashed ugly face of American exceptional imperialism.  He is too vulgar to be suave and altogether much more honest than Obama ever was.  He is detested mainly for this, because his presidency holds a mirror up to the ever loyal, but now slightly embarrassed supporters of the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump

Among the most well-known Trump legal cases was the Trump University litigation. Three legal actions were brought alleging fraud, one by the New York State attorney general and the others by class action plaintiffs.[8] In November 2016, Trump agreed to pay $25 million to settle the litigation.[7]

I suppose he honestly defrauded them...

 

 

[ramit]

53 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

How can you say Trump is honest. After all the 'alternative facts' he has spouted. The mans a congenital liar.

Should have phrased that more precisely.  Of course he lies whenever it suits him, i am referring to how he addresses foreign policy matters.  He doesn't spout on about bringing democracy to countries he wants the US to conquer, he openly admits to wanting to steal their resources, such as in the case of Venezuela, as spoken by his psychotic guru John Bolton

John Bolton: I think we’re trying to get to the same end result here. You know Venezuela is one of the three countries I call the troika of tyranny. It’ll make a big difference to the United States economically if we could have American oil companies really invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela.

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/30/donald-trump-and-the-yankee-plot-to-overthrow-the-venezuelan-government/

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, 1of4 said:

How can you say Trump is honest. After all the 'alternative facts' he has spouted. The mans a congenital liar.

You are correct of course, the lies are pretty much non-stop and farcical at times.

But there is an authenticity to Trump in a weird way.  His awful intentions are clear to see, he doesn't even bother to hide them.  He would prefer if the USA was 'whiter' so he openly wonders why the USA doesn't get more immigrants from Norway instead of from those '****hole' countries.  He tells political opponents who aren't white to go back where they came from whereas he never says that to his white critics.  Therefore, it's not hard to see what he thinks about race. 

The same with the environment, other politicians may talk about how important it is to finally protect it and then not do enough. Trump just openly states it doesn't matter and that the USA should burn as much coal as it can.  Again straightforward.  The same is true for tax and his desire to further enrich the wealthy, his intentions are transparent. 

So while you can't believe a single word he says, it's often easier to figure out his intentions than that of his predecessors. 

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, ramit said:

Should have phrased that more precisely.  Of course he lies whenever it suits him, i am referring to how he addresses foreign policy matters.  He doesn't spout on about bringing democracy to countries he wants the US to conquer, he openly admits to wanting to steal their resources, such as in the case of Venezuela, as spoken by his psychotic guru John Bolton

John Bolton: I think we’re trying to get to the same end result here. You know Venezuela is one of the three countries I call the troika of tyranny. It’ll make a big difference to the United States economically if we could have American oil companies really invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela.

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/30/donald-trump-and-the-yankee-plot-to-overthrow-the-venezuelan-government/

An entirely apt description of John Bolton.  A man who dearly wishes to see the USA and Iran at war.  I think he is actually worse than Trump when it comes to foreign policy. 

[Comrade 86]

On 05/08/2019 at 10:03, Norman said:

Yes, yes they are. God forbid the current government do anything positive.

A few posters have already said they are looking forward to this country falling on its arse after Brexit. Just so they can be right. Just to massge their intellectual ego.

ducking disgraceful.

I don't recall seeing any such posts. I've seen one or two saying that Brexit needed to happen before some would acknowledge the damage it would bring, assuming they are correct of course, but right or wrong, that's a long ducking walk from folk wanting the country to fail so that they can 'massage their egos' as you put it. I concede though, that it lacks the same levels of melodrama!

On the subject though, since you've brought it up, how do you feel about the very commonly expressed Brexit at any cost camp? Those who have voiced the opinion that they are quite happy to see 'Rome burn', again, assuming that's a possible outcome, if it means we are free of the EU. I guess you must be finding that line of thought offending your sensibilities in much the same way, or is your outrage reserved exclusively for those of an opposing view to your own?

Perhaps in this instance, the moral high ground is less important than some seem to believe? Who knows, maybe it's completely irrelevant? It's pretty clear to me that there are fools sat both sides of the fence and maybe therein lies the problem?

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I don't recall seeing any such posts. 

Try recalling a bit harder.

And yes. Brexit at any cost falls under the same bracket for me.

[Comrade 86]

5 minutes ago, Norman said:

Try recalling a bit harder.

And yes. Brexit at any cost falls under the same bracket for me.

Why should I? You're the one chucking accusations about and calling people 'ducking disgraceful'. 

[Norman]

3 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Why should I? You're the one chucking accusations about and calling people 'ducking disgraceful'. 

It's a fact.

[Comrade 86]

Just now, Norman said:

It's a fact.

Ok mate.  Let's leave it there. You have a good evening  ?

[1of4]

3 hours ago, Norman said:

It's a fact.

Unless you can show proof it's a fact. It's just an unsubstantiated opinion.

[WhiteHorseRam]

On ‎04‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 21:00, Boycie said:

I see Boris has found the money tree that the Tory’s were mocking that Corbyn knew about.

I reckon he found the Philip Hammond shoe box under the bed marked 'Trump/Iran entanglement conflict - just in case' and has splurged that.

[IlsonDerby]

There’s a saying that ‘people get the politicians they deserve’ and although I think there’s a lot of good people knocking around in the UK and the US, I think this rings true. 

We, as a nation, have allowed rich men to stir up division and hatred between us. We’ve fallen for the oldest trick in the book. Distract the working classes so the upper classes get away with whatever they wish. 

 

‘The value of the pound has fallen through the roof, but I’ve managed to increase my wealth. Blame the refugees!’ 

 

We have more billionaires than ever before yet poverty is on the rise. How can this be right? A country should be judged on how their worse off live rather than any superficial measure such as GDP. 

 

This isn’t a reply to anything in particular. I just needed to rant at no one in particular without ‘bots’ replying to me in their hundreds on social media. 

[FindernRam]

3 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

There’s a saying that ‘people get the politicians they deserve’ and although I think there’s a lot of good people knocking around in the UK and the US, I think this rings true. 

We, as a nation, have allowed rich men to stir up division and hatred between us. We’ve fallen for the oldest trick in the book. Distract the working classes so the upper classes get away with whatever they wish. 

 

‘The value of the pound has fallen through the roof, but I’ve managed to increase my wealth. Blame the refugees!’ 

 

We have more billionaires than ever before yet poverty is on the rise. How can this be right? A country should be judged on how their worse off live rather than any superficial measure such as GDP. 

 

This isn’t a reply to anything in particular. I just needed to rant at no one in particular without ‘bots’ replying to me in their hundreds on social media. 

I do agree we get what we deserve. I'm no political theorist but:

Name country where the poor are better off than here

Define their political system

Say how you would implement that here.

[ariotofmyown]

14 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

I do agree we get what we deserve. I'm no political theorist but:

Name country where the poor are better off than here

Define their political system

Say how you would implement that here.

It's a fair point, but we can at least try. There are so many more homeless people around now than there were 10 years ago. Things seem to be regressing. That's more of a worry for me rather than how we compare to other countries/systems.

I guess Scandinavian countries are the places usually mentioned in terms of how they look after themselves. Germany maybe? 

[IlsonDerby]

42 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

I do agree we get what we deserve. I'm no political theorist but:

Name country where the poor are better off than here

Define their political system

Say how you would implement that here.

but this isn't my job. 

I'm a teacher - ask me about education, pedagogy, Maths and cognitive load and I'm pretty sure you'd be more than satisfied with my answer.

These are concerns of mine (as part of the electorate) that need to be, imo, addressed by the experts in that field ie the politicians. 

Give me the wealth of researchers and resources a politician in the cabinet has at their disposal and I'd turn this country around with progressive policies that help social mobility rather than pandering to big corporations. 

 

I will answer the first question though with this graphic that was easily found on fullfact.org to illustrate the point that there is plenty of scope for us to be better, without living in dreamworld. 

 

 

 

[Comrade 86]

39 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

but this isn't my job. 

I'm a teacher - ask me about education, pedagogy, Maths and cognitive load and I'm pretty sure you'd be more than satisfied with my answer.

These are concerns of mine (as part of the electorate) that need to be, imo, addressed by the experts in that field ie the politicians. 

Give me the wealth of researchers and resources a politician in the cabinet has at their disposal and I'd turn this country around with progressive policies that help social mobility rather than pandering to big corporations. 

 

I will answer the first question though with this graphic that was easily found on fullfact.org to illustrate the point that there is plenty of scope for us to be better, without living in dreamworld. 

 

 

Those pesky facts huh!

[Wolfie]

54 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

 

 

 

There isn't really a good measure of poverty but I'm genuinely surprised by some of those. How come Hungary is so much better than neighboring and similar economies?. How come we are only marginally worse than Sweden, when their high tax & high social security regime is opften pointed to as the way to go.

But then I've just found this...

...which is based on:

According to the methodology used by Eurostat, those severely deprived cannot afford at least four of the following items, which are considered by most people to be desirable or necessary to lead an adequate life:
-    to pay their bills on time;
-    to keep their home adequately warm;
-    to meet unexpected expenses;
-    eat meat (or fish or the vegetarian equivalent) regularly;
-    take a one week holiday away from home;
-    a TV;
-    a washing machine;
-    a car;
-    a telephone.

 

I reckon this is a better measure of poverty than choosing some arbitrary percentage of average income.

[IlsonDerby]

1 hour ago, Van Wolfie said:

There isn't really a good measure of poverty but I'm genuinely surprised by some of those. How come Hungary is so much better than neighboring and similar economies?. How come we are only marginally worse than Sweden, when their high tax & high social security regime is opften pointed to as the way to go.

But then I've just found this...

...which is based on:

According to the methodology used by Eurostat, those severely deprived cannot afford at least four of the following items, which are considered by most people to be desirable or necessary to lead an adequate life:
-    to pay their bills on time;
-    to keep their home adequately warm;
-    to meet unexpected expenses;
-    eat meat (or fish or the vegetarian equivalent) regularly;
-    take a one week holiday away from home;
-    a TV;
-    a washing machine;
-    a car;
-    a telephone.

 

I reckon this is a better measure of poverty than choosing some arbitrary percentage of average income.

That's fine by me to use this. It still shows that we've got someway to go that is achievable based on other EU nations achieving it. 

[cstand]

On 02/08/2019 at 09:25, McRamFan said:

There is no 'President of Europe', but there are a number of presidents of European Union institutions, including:

The President of the European Council (since 1 December 2014, Donald Tusk) - Was elected PM of Poland

The President of the European Commission (since 1 November 2014, Jean-Claude Juncker) - PM of Luxemburg

The President of the European Parliament (since 3 July 2019, David Sassoli) - Italian MEP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Union

You can get rid of them, you just have to convince the other 27 countries that end of the EU is a good idea.

Blimey never new it was that bad all on fat cat taxpayer paid salaries.

And they give away free money to the other members to keep the EU intact so their fat cat taxpayer pensions are guaranteed.

Thank god we are leaving.

[McRamFan]

15 hours ago, cstand said:

Blimey never new it was that bad all on fat cat taxpayer paid salaries.

And they give away free money to the other members to keep the EU intact so their fat cat taxpayer pensions are guaranteed.

Thank god we are leaving.

Hmm...you really expect Farage and his cronies to give up free money?

Emperors new clothes.