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The Politics Thread 2019


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32 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

https://labour.org.uk/latest/stories/labour-demands-brexit-public-vote/

I am proud to lead the Labour Party – the greatest political party and social movement in this country. 

We all recognise that the issue of Brexit has been divisive in our communities and sometimes in our party too. 

As democrats, Labour accepted the result of the 2016 referendum. In our 2017 manifesto, Labour also committed to oppose a No Deal Brexit and the Tories’ Brexit plans – which threatened jobs, living standards, and the open multicultural society that we as internationalists value so much. 

I want to pay tribute to Keir Starmer and the shadow Brexit team for holding the Government to account during this process. That helped secure a meaningful vote on their deal – which we then defeated three times – including inflicting the largest ever defeat on any Government. And following their refusal to publish their legal advice, this Government became the first to be held in contempt of Parliament. 

Labour set out a compromise plan to try to bring the country together based around a customs union, a strong single market relationship and protection of environmental regulations and rights at work. We continue to believe this is a sensible alternative that could bring the country together. 

But the Prime Minister refused to compromise and was unable to deliver, so we ended cross-party talks. 

Now both Tory leadership candidates are threatening a No Deal Brexit – or at best a race to the bottom and a sweetheart deal with Donald Trump: that runs down industry, opens up our NHS and other public services to yet more privatisation, and shreds environmental protections, rights at work and consumer standards. 

I have spent the past few weeks consulting with the shadow cabinet, MPs, affiliated unions and the NEC. I have also had feedback from members via the National Policy Forum consultation on Brexit. 

Whoever becomes the new Prime Minister should have the confidence to put their deal, or No Deal, back to the people in a public vote. 

In those circumstances, I want to make it clear that Labour would campaign for Remain against either No Deal or a Tory deal that does not protect the economy and jobs. 

Labour has a crucial, historic duty to safeguard jobs, rights and living standards. But no Brexit outcome alone can do that. 

We need a general election. After nine years of austerity, too many people in this country cannot find decent secure well-paid work and have to rely on public services that have been severely cut back. 

Our country is ravaged by inequality and rising poverty, huge regional imbalances of investment, and the government is failing to tackle the climate emergency facing us all. 

That is why we need a Labour government to end austerity and rebuild our country for the many, not the few.

Jeremy Corbyn 
Leader of the Labour Party

I'm still no clearer whether he wants to leave or remain. 

He should concentrate on getting the splinters out of his arse before he starts worrying about a vote of no confidence.

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21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm still no clearer whether he wants to leave or remain. 

He should concentrate on getting the splinters out of his arse before he starts worrying about a vote of no confidence.

How do you not know from that statement? 

Labour intend to follow the will of the electorate and want to leave, with a deal including a customs union. They oppose leaving with no deal. The immediate plan is prevent a crash out in November, push back the date and arrange for a general election. The electorate can give a solid mandate to a new government. 

Seems that the Tories support no deal, Labour support Brexit with a deal and the lib dems support remain. 

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1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

How do you not know from that statement? 

Labour intend to follow the will of the electorate and want to leave, with a deal including a customs union. They oppose leaving with no deal. The immediate plan is prevent a crash out in November, push back the date and arrange for a general election. The electorate can give a solid mandate to a new government. 

Seems that the Tories support no deal, Labour support Brexit with a deal and the lib dems support remain. 

If they intend to follow the will of the electorate then they should be fully behind leave with no caveats.

The electorate gave a solid mandate to the government 3 years ago, it was very solid, leave the European Union.

 

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2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

If they intend to follow the will of the electorate then they should be fully behind leave with no caveats.

The electorate gave a solid mandate to the government 3 years ago, it was very solid, leave the European Union.

 

Nobody asked this question on the ballot... 

Production-_0002_Noel-Edmonds-DOND2.jpg

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4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Nobody asked this question on the ballot... 

Production-_0002_Noel-Edmonds-DOND2.jpg

Nor should it have been.

No deal is not an end situation.

If we leave with no deal on 31st October are we to believe that's the end of any relationship between the UK and the EU?

Do you not think it will put us in a better position to negotiate a better deal than what May got us?

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1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Nor should it have been.

No deal is not an end situation.

If we leave with no deal on 31st October are we to believe that's the end of any relationship between the UK and the EU?

Do you not think it will put us in a better position to negotiate a better deal than what May got us?

If there is no political will to achieve a deal before we leave, what changes after? 

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5 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

If there is no political will to achieve a deal before we leave, what changes after? 

There is a political will. We are just witnessing political posturing. I dont know anyone who has actively sought a no deal outcome, it's just the default position.

Both sides will suffer with a no deal outcome and compromises will have to be made. Unfortunately the EU had absolutely no reason to do this after May agreed the surrender treaty.

 

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30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

There is a political will. We are just witnessing political posturing. I dont know anyone who has actively sought a no deal outcome, it's just the default position.

Both sides will suffer with a no deal outcome and compromises will have to be made. Unfortunately the EU had absolutely no reason to do this after May agreed the surrender treaty.

 

Hang on, it was an agreement to leave the EU. 

You said that's what people voted for. Now you say that wasn't what people voted for? 

What was the question on the voting slip? 

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31 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

There is a political will. We are just witnessing political posturing. I dont know anyone who has actively sought a no deal outcome, it's just the default position.

Both sides will suffer with a no deal outcome and compromises will have to be made. Unfortunately the EU had absolutely no reason to do this after May agreed the surrender treaty.

 

Are you looing at me ?

image.thumb.png.b35cd8625cb930e3a114cb739db313e1.png

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The centrist position should be to stop further privatisation of public services, protect working conditions, consumer rights, environmental conditions and provide decent affordable housing for all.

That is the centre. Or was.

If that was the centrist position then we wouldn't be in this situation, Brexit wouldn't be a thing, Farage wouldn't be thing, Johnson would be hosting Its a Knockout and Corbyn would not be Leader of the Opposition, 

The "centre" moved to the right very slowly and very slyly over the last 3 or 4 decades.

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37 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont know anyone who has actively sought a no deal outcome

Aaron Banks, Nigel Farage, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, anyone who owns a business based in Belize, Cayman Islands or The British Virgin Islands, Steve Bannon, Rupert Murdoch, Boris Johnson, Lord Rothermere, Richard Desmond, David and Frederick Barclay...I may have missed one or two, but generally, anyone who wishes to avoid any sort of financial transparency.

Unfortunately, this lot between them are responsible for the news we read and watch every day.

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7 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Aaron Banks, Nigel Farage, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, anyone who owns a business based in Belize, Cayman Islands or The British Virgin Islands, Steve Bannon, Rupert Murdoch, Boris Johnson, Lord Rothermere, Richard Desmond, David and Frederick Barclay...I may have missed one or two, but generally, anyone who wishes to avoid any sort of financial transparency.

Unfortunately, this lot between them are responsible for the news we read and watch every day.

Out of the ones that matter on there, neither Farage or Johnson actively campaigned for a no deal Brexit, both wanted to strike a deal with the EU but have said 'no deal is better than a bad deal'.

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13 hours ago, GboroRam said:

No chance Corbyn would accept that deal. He is leader of the opposition whether you like it or not. 

If he took a back seat in this he's basically admitting he can't lead the country. Why would he do that? 

Question for me is, how worried about Brexit are the lib dems? Or are they more worried about Corbyn leading a temporary government? 

Yes, Corbyn scares the crap out of the establishment. Ever wondered why? 

From what I read yesterday, the Lib Dems are concerned that there wouldn't be a temporary government if Corbyn was going to be the leader because he wouldn't be able to bring everyone in behind him.

For it to happen, you'd need a couple of Tory rebels to vote against the government - twice. That ain't going to happen if they'd be voting with JC. Far more likely with Clarke or Harman-type people.

I think the Lib Dems are just facing facts and arithmetic. Glad someone is talking sense for a change.

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3 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

From what I read yesterday, the Lib Dems are concerned that there wouldn't be a temporary government if Corbyn was going to be the leader because he wouldn't be able to bring everyone in behind him.

For it to happen, you'd need a couple of Tory rebels to vote against the government - twice. That ain't going to happen if they'd be voting with JC. Far more likely with Clarke or Harman-type people.

I think the Lib Dems are just facing facts and arithmetic. Glad someone is talking sense for a change.

On the face of it it's not a good look to state "I will do *anything* to avoid a no-deal Brexit" - and then the next day refuse to get behind the plan put forward by the leader of the opposition to avoid a no-deal Brexit. Completely wrecks their image as the Hard Remain party

No surprise then that they are now backtracking and saying that they have no principled objection to it...

 

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2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

On the face of it it's not a good look to state "I will do *anything* to avoid a no-deal Brexit" - and then the next day refuse to get behind the plan put forward by the leader of the opposition to avoid a no-deal Brexit. Completely wrecks their image as the Hard Remain party

No surprise then that they are now backtracking and saying that they have no principled objection to it...

 

Also for the leader of the third biggest party to claim the leader of the second largest party has no mandate in Parliament is a bit pot/kettle. 

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4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Also for the leader of the third biggest party to claim the leader of the second largest party has no mandate in Parliament is a bit pot/kettle. 

Nicola Sturgeon said that?? ?

Technically there are currently more independent MPs than LibDem MPs

 

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16 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm still no clearer whether he wants to leave or remain. 

He should concentrate on getting the splinters out of his arse before he starts worrying about a vote of no confidence.

Exactly, it's supposed to be his clear statement on Brexit but actually it's his clear statement on how he wants to become Prime Minister. What he should have done was to come out on day one when BoJoke got elected and said 'I will put down my party politics and work with you to get this sorted, once that is done gloves off and back at it'.

I'm as socialist as they come but Corbyn is mired in party politics and utterly incapable of any other way of thinking other than bi-partisan outcomes with him at Prime Minister. It just shoots all his credibility below the water line before he even opens his mouth.

Been said a million times, but we are in this mess because we are trying to resolve the outcome of a non-party referendum on party based lines. Until we realise that then we are stuck going round and round in the same old circle without anyone able to break it. What a mess!

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