Sack Frank

[AdamRam]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

Nowhere will you see me calling for FL to be sacked just as you wouldn't have with the other 3 that I mentioned. If you are classing Rowett as a failure then anything less than 6th place this season should be viewed as the same.

Said before that I don't view this 'net spend' as relevant.

Interesting to see that Vydra and Weimann are now mentioned as key players. I'd have a read back through threads from last season and see if they were described as such, by many, last season.

And if they were key players last season that was in a system which so many hated, so absolutely no reason to believe they would be the same in FLs system.

At the end of the day FL has spent £15m on players brought in to suit his system and he should be being judged on is how well the system is being implemented and how good his recruitment for that system has been.

From what I read though I am see him being given plaudits for lowering the wage bill (doubt he has), lowering the age of the squad (mainly done using young loanees) and introducing a better brand of football (in about 5 games from what I have seen).

Very interesting to see his recruitment in the summer, I'd say his record so far is very hit and miss.

As I said the thread not your post re the sacking.

How can not replacing your star man with 20 goals from last season, not be relevant, as I have said previously a bizzare statement imo. We are under FFP rules, of which the chairman has stated that we don’t know how close we will finish under until the season has finished, he had no choice to get rid of Vydra and bring someone else in. Would he have kept him, who knows, however it was clear to bring players in he needed to sell his only tangible asset, just because people in this forum didn’t see him as key is laughable.

Yes he has spent 15m, however he probably needs a few quid more to keep up with the teams that have invested in the team rather than individuals over the past few transfer windows, aka CJ, CD, TH, NB etc....As for the wage budget, firstly that is guesswork by yourself, secondly how can he reduce it if no one wants to take the dross he has been left with, how big is this stick that you want to beat him with, would you have been happier if he hadn’t replaced anyone or do you agree that we had to try to bring some players in. I’d be interested to hear how he could have brought that wage bill down further whilst trying to bring his own players in?

As for 6th last year as a bench mark, I’d rather take mid table this year embedding players in preparation for next rather than a short term approach of bringing journeymen in an attempt to get you over the line whilst failing spectacularly in the most one side play off semi final the league has probably witnessed...not forgetting being the first team in years to win the first leg and not progressing....whilst keeping your top goal scorer on the bench ?

Im not saying he is doing an amazing job, however he needs time, he is fixing other people’s poo whilst trying to build a team capable of getting us back into the PL.

 

[cheron85]

11 hours ago, DcfcJB said:

Lost my patience this season now, nowhere near as good as we should be, but the worst part is there is no passion in that team. Poor results you can deal with bad performances can be frustrating but we haven’t turned up for a game since before Christmas, what is completely unacceptable is not turning up to play at all against your bitter rivals. Embarrassment.

I feel like this post is has mostly come from immediate post-match frustration but I still need to say:

No - Get a grip

Sometimes teams are built over night - Sometimes it takes a while to build - I would suggest young/new managers are more likely to be in the second camp - So have a bit of patience

If you genuinely thought at the start of the season we were going to challenge for the title it's naive - We're about the place I certainly expected for a rookie manager with no budget to spend and a hodge-podge of other people's players leftover

[t'oldu]

Vydra was desperate to play in the Prem to increase his chances of getting into his national team.

[CornwallRam]

I always said that Lampard was a terrible appointment. Appointing any rookie manager is a long shot with maybe a 10% chance of success. Appointing a rookie with a big reputation just means that if he's that 1 in 10 who succeeds, the club still loses out as he moves to a bigger club quickly. 

In reality, I'd say that Lampard has about five games to save his job - unless he moves to Chelsea or Celtic in the next few days. We're on a downward slope in terms of performance and results. At this point a few good results and everything will look rosy again, but a run of say 2 points from the next 4 games and it looks like a nosedive. If he turns things around he'll be on his way to being a proper manager. If not, Mel will have to pull the trigger.

The summer involves a major rebuild and we won't have a huge amount of cash to do it with. The money spent must be spent very wisely. Mel needs to know that Lampard is the right man to do this. He needs to quickly improve results and show that his signings are more hit than miss.

[The_Sheriff]

17 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I always said that Lampard was a terrible appointment. Appointing any rookie manager is a long shot with maybe a 10% chance of success. Appointing a rookie with a big reputation just means that if he's that 1 in 10 who succeeds, the club still loses out as he moves to a bigger club quickly. 

In reality, I'd say that Lampard has about five games to save his job - unless he moves to Chelsea or Celtic in the next few days. We're on a downward slope in terms of performance and results. At this point a few good results and everything will look rosy again, but a run of say 2 points from the next 4 games and it looks like a nosedive. If he turns things around he'll be on his way to being a proper manager. If not, Mel will have to pull the trigger.

The summer involves a major rebuild and we won't have a huge amount of cash to do it with. The money spent must be spent very wisely. Mel needs to know that Lampard is the right man to do this. He needs to quickly improve results and show that his signings are more hit than miss.

another silly post.

Lets be honest we lost to a side who are similar level to us away from home. We are having a bad spell but we are still in contention for a top 6 something I didn't expect for this season.

 

Sacking the manager for instant success is not the answer- lets try have some stability for once.

[CornwallRam]

3 minutes ago, Simsy said:

another silly post.

Lets be honest we lost to a side who are similar level to us away from home. We are having a bad spell but we are still in contention for a top 6 something I didn't expect for this season.

 

Sacking the manager for instant success is not the answer- lets try have some stability for once.

Why is it silly?

If Lampard can't cut it as a manager, what is stable about retaining his services?

Of course he shouldn't be sacked now, but if he can't sort out the current problems, why should he be the one to rebuild in the summer?

[BathRam72]

35 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

As I said the thread not your post re the sacking.

How can not replacing your star man with 20 goals from last season, not be relevant, as I have said previously a bizzare statement imo. We are under FFP rules, of which the chairman has stated that we don’t know how close we will finish under until the season has finished, he had no choice to get rid of Vydra and bring someone else in. Would he have kept him, who knows, however it was clear to bring players in he needed to sell his only tangible asset, just because people in this forum didn’t see him as key is laughable.

Yes he has spent 15m, however he probably needs a few quid more to keep up with the teams that have invested in the team rather than individuals over the past few transfer windows, aka CJ, CD, TH, NB etc....As for the wage budget, firstly that is guesswork by yourself, secondly how can he reduce it if no one wants to take the dross he has been left with, how big is this stick that you want to beat him with, would you have been happier if he hadn’t replaced anyone or do you agree that we had to try to bring some players in. I’d be interested to hear how he could have brought that wage bill down further whilst trying to bring his own players in?

As for 6th last year as a bench mark, I’d rather take mid table this year embedding players in preparation for next rather than a short term approach of bringing journeymen in an attempt to get you over the line whilst failing spectacularly in the most one side play off semi final the league has probably witnessed...not forgetting being the first team in years to win the first leg and not progressing....whilst keeping your top goal scorer on the bench ?

Im not saying he is doing an amazing job, however he needs time, he is fixing other people’s poo whilst trying to build a team capable of getting us back into the PL.

 

Nailed it in my opinion.

Frank has picked up all the square pegs left behind in a wake of managers, who for what ever reason haven't been given time to build their own teams.

So now we really do need to give Frank time, to get rid of those expensive bystanders and build his own team.

Surely, only then can you really judge him on his own performance/merits

[RadioactiveWaste]

After a mild winter, finally it feels like February.

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

As I said the thread not your post re the sacking.

How can not replacing your star man with 20 goals from last season, not be relevant, as I have said previously a bizzare statement imo. We are under FFP rules, of which the chairman has stated that we don’t know how close we will finish under until the season has finished, he had no choice to get rid of Vydra and bring someone else in. Would he have kept him, who knows, however it was clear to bring players in he needed to sell his only tangible asset, just because people in this forum didn’t see him as key is laughable.

He wasn't Lampards star man, he never played a single minute under him. Very unlikely that he would have suited a 3 up top role. Absolutely no reason to cut Lampard any slack for this just the same as there was no reason to cut Rowett any slack for selling Hughes and Ince.

Yes he has spent 15m, however he probably needs a few quid more to keep up with the teams that have invested in the team rather than individuals over the past few transfer windows, aka CJ, CD, TH, NB etc....

Agreed but let's not forget that this was £15m on top of a team that had already had probably in excess of £30m spent on it, though these obviously will include players that don't fit FLs system. However, there is only really Thorne, Anya and Butterfield that have never been in the squad 

As for the wage budget, firstly that is guesswork by yourself, secondly how can he reduce it if no one wants to take the dross he has been left with, how big is this stick that you want to beat him with, would you have been happier if he hadn’t replaced anyone or do you agree that we had to try to bring some players in.

Yes it is guesswork but I'd be surprised if it has gone down yet. Not a stick to beat him with but also not something that he should be receiving plaudits for. The club set the wage budgets and the managers act within them confines. If I thought our league position vastly outshone our wage budget in comparison to our competitors I'd rethink the statement but I doubt it does. Of course he had to bring players in to suit his system. 

I’d be interested to hear how he could have brought that wage bill down further whilst trying to bring his own players in?

I don't think he could, hence why I don't understand why people are praising him for it.

As for 6th last year as a bench mark, I’d rather take mid table this year embedding players in preparation for next rather than a short term approach of bringing journeymen in an attempt to get you over the line whilst failing spectacularly in the most one side play off semi final the league has probably witnessed...not forgetting being the first team in years to win the first leg and not progressing....whilst keeping your top goal scorer on the bench

Yep me too, as long as you can see where we are heading and that the players that are crucial to the team being bedded in are going to be here to see the job through next season. Not sure if this is likely or not.

 

16 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Im not saying he is doing an amazing job, however he needs time, he is fixing other people’s poo whilst trying to build a team capable of getting us back into the PL.

Agreed he needs time. Not sure what poo he is fixing. He's been given funds to bring 7 or 8 players in, do you think he should have been allowed to bring more in?

 

[Richard Dastard Lee]

Sacking Frank would just add another circle to the ever decreasing circles that have resulted from our frequent management changes. We have to stick with a manager for a couple of season's sooner or later. Maybe we would have kept Rowett had he not walked but this time we have to stick with Frank. 

I think he's shown enough promise to be retained and the current bad patch is where he learns his trade, its his first major challenge, lets see how he handles it.

As I said in a previous post, Clough and Taylor's team finished below Tim Ward's team in their first season, luckily the board didn't see fit to sack them because of that, if they had our history would have been completely different. Patience is required.

[VulcanRam]

Here's a theory. Suddenly we're playing 3-5-2.

Maybe Frank has said "Right, this is what we're going to do next season. I'm going to introduce it now to get the players ready for it, and I'm also to see between now and the season who can adapt, who flourishes and who struggles, before knowing what moves I need to make in the summer. if it works now then great, if not, we're on the road to building something for next season".

Just a theory. 

I'm sure it's rubbish, but given recent performances I'm clutching at straws. 

[AdamRam]

28 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I always said that Lampard was a terrible appointment. Appointing any rookie manager is a long shot with maybe a 10% chance of success. Appointing a rookie with a big reputation just means that if he's that 1 in 10 who succeeds, the club still loses out as he moves to a bigger club quickly. 

In reality, I'd say that Lampard has about five games to save his job - unless he moves to Chelsea or Celtic in the next few days. We're on a downward slope in terms of performance and results. At this point a few good results and everything will look rosy again, but a run of say 2 points from the next 4 games and it looks like a nosedive. If he turns things around he'll be on his way to being a proper manager. If not, Mel will have to pull the trigger.

The summer involves a major rebuild and we won't have a huge amount of cash to do it with. The money spent must be spent very wisely. Mel needs to know that Lampard is the right man to do this. He needs to quickly improve results and show that his signings are more hit than miss.

Apologies is this sounds like I’m having a go, BUT appointing any manager is likely to be a long shot in terms of success. We have gone for “Rookie” to “been there done it before”, and all have failed, yet here you are after just 7 months possibly writing FL off after another 5 games.

Any chance you are being a bit melodramatic, I’d ask you to go look at Bristol City manager and those imbeciles calling for his head when he went through a bad patch, Mel I’m sure has learnt his lesson, he isn’t going to fall into the modern day fan trap that sacks FL on the back of fickle fans, even if we lose the next 5.

Im really struggling to keep up with this new age fan who wants success after 30 odd games and two transfer windows, wondering why we arent bossing the league, is it any wonder there isn’t much loyalty in the game nowadays...oh yeah blame sky, blame the PL, anyone but the root cause.

[AdamRam]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

 

I take your points on board, don’t necessarily agree with them however they are all opinions and we would be arguing for it for ages through a forum that doesn’t always allow for the post to be read as i may wish it come across, so will agree to disagree.

With one small caveat though, GR wanted to get rid of WH as he didn’t suit his plans, for that one bit of transfer dealing he will for me be forever judged ?

[Gaspode]

Before the start of the season, I'd have said a top half finish was good for a rookie manager doing a major rebuilding job (particularly one whose hands are tied by FFP and the ridiculous excesses of previous managers) - I'll stand by that now.

The fact is that we've overachieved to be around the top 6 for most of the season - we've had some very good performances, we've had some o.k. ones, we've had some attrocuious ones - that's what you get with someone new to the job, a number of injuries to our better players, and a fair sprinkling of young inexperienced players.

Part of the reason we have the annual struggles is the constant swapping and changing of managers - PL clubs can get away with it because they tend to have the finances to quickly corrrect mistakes made by previous mangement - it's not like that in the Football League and anyone calling for the manager's head at this stage (or suggesting he has X number of games to save himself) needs to give their head a wobble - or preferably go back to playing Football Manager and leave real life to the rest of us....

[Millenniumram]

18 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

Here's a theory. Suddenly we're playing 3-5-2.

Maybe Frank has said "Right, this is what we're going to do next season. I'm going to introduce it now to get the players ready for it, and I'm also to see between now and the season who can adapt, who flourishes and who struggles, before knowing what moves I need to make in the summer. if it works now then great, if not, we're on the road to building something for next season".

Just a theory. 

I'm sure it's rubbish, but given recent performances I'm clutching at straws. 

We were 433 last night, and I’m still to be convinced we actually played 352 the other night either, looked far more like 442 even if it wasn’t meant to be

[Tamworthram]

31 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Why is it silly?

If Lampard can't cut it as a manager, what is stable about retaining his services?

Of course he shouldn't be sacked now, but if he can't sort out the current problems, why should he be the one to rebuild in the summer?

So, you're saying don't sack him now but if he can't sort out the current problem he should go before the summer? How long would you give him then given we only have 13 games remaining? At what point do you decide that he can't cut it as a manager? Do you not think a summer clear out and  rebuild could be part of the fix?

 

[Mafiabob]

12 hours ago, SouthStandDan said:

Sacking a manager in 7th with a net spend of £0.00.

Okay.

We managed to sack one 5th 5 points off autos and lost 5 games all season..... and was widely applauded, but I agree with you 

[G STAR RAM]

47 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

I take your points on board, don’t necessarily agree with them however they are all opinions and we would be arguing for it for ages through a forum that doesn’t always allow for the post to be read as i may wish it come across, so will agree to disagree.

With one small caveat though, GR wanted to get rid of WH as he didn’t suit his plans, for that one bit of transfer dealing he will for me be forever judged ?

Yes his comments that backed it up show his ethos when it comes to football.

 

[CornwallRam]

52 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Apologies is this sounds like I’m having a go, BUT appointing any manager is likely to be a long shot in terms of success. We have gone for “Rookie” to “been there done it before”, and all have failed, yet here you are after just 7 months possibly writing FL off after another 5 games.

Any chance you are being a bit melodramatic, I’d ask you to go look at Bristol City manager and those imbeciles calling for his head when he went through a bad patch, Mel I’m sure has learnt his lesson, he isn’t going to fall into the modern day fan trap that sacks FL on the back of fickle fans, even if we lose the next 5.

Im really struggling to keep up with this new age fan who wants success after 30 odd games and two transfer windows, wondering why we arent bossing the league, is it any wonder there isn’t much loyalty in the game nowadays...oh yeah blame sky, blame the PL, anyone but the root cause.

If you look at my post carefully you might notice that its main thrust is what happens in the summer. By definition, that is not the 'short termism' that you accuse me of. 

As it goes, my view isn't and never has been short term. I want to see DCFC promoted, but I'm too long in the tooth to put a timescale on it. My argument against Lampard is that we can't lay any foundations for a successful future with him here because he'll either prove to be a poor manager or he'll be a good manager and quickly leave. Lampard is the epitome of a short term appointment.

Going back to loyalty. We are coming to the end of a cycle where we've been financially hemmed in by Mel backing a rookie manager. It was the poor recruitment under Clement that has held us back. I'd argue that it would be ridiculous to start that cycle again by allowing Lampard to bring in maybe a dozen new signings in the summer if isn't good enough to turn around the current problems in the next few games. If he does turn things around, then brilliant - open your cheque book Mel. Yet, if things get worse over then next month, it would be silly to back him in the summer, and if we're not going to back Lampard, better to get rid in late March and let the new manager have a few months to assess the squad.

[CornwallRam]

42 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

So, you're saying don't sack him now but if he can't sort out the current problem he should go before the summer? How long would you give him then given we only have 13 games remaining? At what point do you decide that he can't cut it as a manager? Do you not think a summer clear out and  rebuild could be part of the fix?

 

I think if we continue to fall away, a summer rebuild under Lampard is more likely to be a disaster.