V Norwich (H) Match Thread

[rammieib]

10 hours ago, Ruda Harliss said:

Surely Nuge got more than high octave chasing?

It's worrying isn't it when a fan says let's play Nugent to chase for 45 minutes.

Is this a Rowett legacy or even the old traits of Nigel Clough?

How about playing our best players who have the best chance of scoring and then bring Nugent on for the last 20 minutes when we are 2 or 3 up!!

 

[AdamRam]

1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

During the game Ill admit I was part of the £x million of players being on the bench not being played thinking. But I’m also really frustrated with what Nugent is contributing, which makes that worse (yet no one wants to criticise him because he runs about a bit). 

You are right, both Marriott and Waghorn came in after transfer sagas. Waghorn started well but dropped off and I don’t think there was anything wrong with taking him out and bringing him back in again now he’s had time to settle. Marriott has slowly been getting more time and can’t be that far away. It’ll be fine but we certainly need them soon because the front three aren’t creating enough 

 

I have no argument with people saying maybe they should be starting, I get it and would agree. However I don’t get how they can be judged after just 12 games and questioning if the owner should be giving FL any more money to spend.

[Edtheram]

You cant start playing after 80 minutes. We were average, same as the Bolton game really only that we got a goal. I dont usually do player analysis but im going to today....

Carson - Did okay, kicking was generally good but distribution is still too slow for me.

Bogle - Showed glimpses but takes too long to do something on the ball, telegraphs his passes too.

Tomori - had a bad start to the game but grew into it, he was reliable when we needed him.

Keogh - Did okay, won some important tackles but tried the fancy ball too much and lost us possession.

Malone - Did well, got down the flank and put some decent balls in, needs to show more defensively though.

Johnson - Average, he got on the ball without doing much and looked tired in spells, may need a rest.

Bryson - Worked hard as usual and got a goal, didn't notice him too much last night but he was in the right place and got us a point.

Mount - Looked a little tired last night, still played well and almost scored a good goal, needs more support sometimes though.

Wilson - Average, didn't really notice him, he looked leggy as hes only been back from injury 2 weeks, needs a rest IMO.

Bennett - Poor, didn't do anything to impress, he doesn't look like a winger, he cant beat a man and isn't a goal threat, needs dropping.

Nugent - Average, didn't do much and only had 1 shot. Hes not enough of a goal threat and was out of position constantly, needs dropping.

Lawrence - Average, didn't do much, he tried at least.

Marriott - worked hard but didn't get much in front of goal, offered a different option though.

Waghorn - Did well got a good assist and looked good in the air and tidy in his play.

 

What i dont understand about the team currently is that it was obvious after Bolton that some individuals needed a rest, if the same team plays at QPR i fear it may be another Millwall. Also, Wilson and Bennett should be on the opposite wings, they should be running at players, cutting inside and shooting - how there set up at the moment only lets  them cross the ball and go down the line on there stronger foot.

Changes need to be made for QPR, replace Bennett, Wilson and Nugent with Jozefzoon, Waghorn and Marriott. Could also put Huddlestone in for Johnson. The team looks tired, time for others to impress now......

 

[Ram8]

Some thoughts on last night ..

Norwich are a very good team, a bit like last season’s Fulham ..

Yet not many on here, or on Radio Derby last night, were putting that into the equation when judging our own performance ..

I love Tom Huddlestone, but have to admit that Bradley Johnson is fast making the CDM position his own, with his tough tackling and vastly improved passing ability ..

Keogh is a great asset to have at the back at present, with some excellent performances this season ..

I am beginning to worry about Frank’s judgement of a player, as his unstinting praise for both Nugent and Bennett is totally unjustified at present. Nugent is not good enough to be our first choice No. 9, being an impact sub at best, Bennett I’m afraid will never be more than a League Two player ..

Waghorn and Marriott are as yet unproven (despite their large transfer fees), but we will never know if they are not started in matches (in place of Nugent and Bennett of course) ..

Josefzoon is far and away our most penetrative winger, Wilson has not impressed me with his positional sense, and Lawrence is so far an enigma (scoring a couple of impressive goals but being on the whole both wasteful in possession and petulant if roused) ..

Yes, Frank has got us playing an impressive and creative style of football, but until he gets his player choices right, then we will continue to underperform ..

And (at the risk of being tiresome and repeating myself), Chris Martin is STILL far and away the best centre forward on the books !! 

[Rambalin]

Lawrence needs too come back into the starting eleven......he is the new Tom Ince has far has Derby fans are concerned if he is not banging them in every game from 30 yards and creating a dozen chances  then he is rubbish.He will make errors and give balls away because he is trying to create those opportunities and has the confidence and belief to keep on doing it till it comes off,unlike others who shy away from it.

Opposition teams show they are aware of his threat the same has they do with Mount now by getting players around him quickly.Players like Lawrence are the modern day wingers and can frustrate and excite in equal measure just like the old one,s.

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I thought the 'high octane chasing' was a bit pointless as he was mostly doing it on his own. But surely there's more to us up front than 'chasing'? Very Snake.

I thought the reports from Old Trafford were that we were generally (as a team) pressing high and therefore playing more in the Man U half. Now we seem to be seeing only Nuge rushing from defender to defender trying to close down on his own. The only difference then between that and Snakeball is that with the latter he was told to run around into spaces to chase the hoof and now he's chasing around the oppo players.....?

Where's the rest of them? You have to press as a team. 

[BathRam72]

1 hour ago, Ram8 said:

Some thoughts on last night ..

Norwich are a very good team, a bit like last season’s Fulham ..

Yet not many on here, or on Radio Derby last night, were putting that into the equation when judging our own performance ..

I love Tom Huddlestone, but have to admit that Bradley Johnson is fast making the CDM position his own, with his tough tackling and vastly improved passing ability ..

Keogh is a great asset to have at the back at present, with some excellent performances this season ..

I am beginning to worry about Frank’s judgement of a player, as his unstinting praise for both Nugent and Bennett is totally unjustified at present. Nugent is not good enough to be our first choice No. 9, being an impact sub at best, Bennett I’m afraid will never be more than a League Two player ..

Waghorn and Marriott are as yet unproven (despite their large transfer fees), but we will never know if they are not started in matches (in place of Nugent and Bennett of course) ..

Josefzoon is far and away our most penetrative winger, Wilson has not impressed me with his positional sense, and Lawrence is so far an enigma (scoring a couple of impressive goals but being on the whole both wasteful in possession and petulant if roused) ..

Yes, Frank has got us playing an impressive and creative style of football, but until he gets his player choices right, then we will continue to underperform ..

And (at the risk of being tiresome and repeating myself), Chris Martin is STILL far and away the best centre forward on the books !! 

That's not saying much then is it??

[TuffLuff]

9 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

I thought the reports from Old Trafford were that we were generally (as a team) pressing high and therefore playing more in the Man U half. Now we seem to be seeing only Nuge rushing from defender to defender trying to close down on his own. The only difference then between that and Snakeball is that with the latter he was told to run around into spaces to chase the hoof and now he's chasing around the oppo players.....?

Where's the rest of them? You have to press as a team. 

They were many examples last night that if Bennett pressed 10 yards further then he would leave a huge gap behind him and Bogle exposed. It’s alright Nugent running (well it isn’t, but for the sake of this it’s fine) but he’s an experienced forward and needs to be smarter than running around aimlessly and wondering why no one else is being quite as headless. 

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, BathRam72 said:

Here Here. I mentioned this last night and got the usual (He is the best thing since sliced bread - come back)

Nuge is a good player, but we have to face the fact that 3 or 4 games in a short spell is too much for him.

Hell, some on here are saying it is too much for the youngsters, so what makes us think Nuge can do it?

He needs a rest, Marriott needs a run. So why not. 

If we were consistently winning/drawing and creating week in week out, then I can see a reason to not change, but we are not.

Fully agree, but there is also the point that we aren’t creating enough as a team and haven’t done consistently much this season. This is partly down to Nugent because the ball doesn’t really stick to him but also when we do get in good positions he’s usually out of position when a ball does come into the box. Two crosses came in first half, when was a flash from Mount and if he’s on the edge of the six yard box then he gets contact but he’s closer to the 18 and the other was an awkward one for the keeper to come out and collect but he had no pressure, again Nugent is near the 18. But then he runs about a bit and people think he’s some sort of Derby hero.

[BathRam72]

3 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Fully agree, but there is also the point that we aren’t creating enough as a team and haven’t done consistently much this season. This is partly down to Nugent because the ball doesn’t really stick to him but also when we do get in good positions he’s usually out of position when a ball does come into the box. Two crosses came in first half, when was a flash from Mount and if he’s on the edge of the six yard box then he gets contact but he’s closer to the 18 and the other was an awkward one for the keeper to come out and collect but he had no pressure, again Nugent is near the 18. But then he runs about a bit and people think he’s some sort of Derby hero.

Exactly my point last night. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, Ram8 said:

Some thoughts on last night ..

Norwich are a very good team, a bit like last season’s Fulham ..

Yet not many on here, or on Radio Derby last night, were putting that into the equation when judging our own performance ..

I love Tom Huddlestone, but have to admit that Bradley Johnson is fast making the CDM position his own, with his tough tackling and vastly improved passing ability ..

Keogh is a great asset to have at the back at present, with some excellent performances this season ..

I am beginning to worry about Frank’s judgement of a player, as his unstinting praise for both Nugent and Bennett is totally unjustified at present. Nugent is not good enough to be our first choice No. 9, being an impact sub at best, Bennett I’m afraid will never be more than a League Two player ..

Waghorn and Marriott are as yet unproven (despite their large transfer fees), but we will never know if they are not started in matches (in place of Nugent and Bennett of course) ..

Josefzoon is far and away our most penetrative winger, Wilson has not impressed me with his positional sense, and Lawrence is so far an enigma (scoring a couple of impressive goals but being on the whole both wasteful in possession and petulant if roused) ..

Yes, Frank has got us playing an impressive and creative style of football, but until he gets his player choices right, then we will continue to underperform ..

And (at the risk of being tiresome and repeating myself), Chris Martin is STILL far and away the best centre forward on the books !! 

I'd love to see us playing with a holding Number 9 which would hopefully give us a lot more control as part of a 4-3-3 i feel....and that was a problem we also suffered from last year.

Now I was hoping that we were going to utilise waghorn in that role and that was why we brought him in.

I'm not expecting Frank to have this as his primary system,but as one of a few that he can interchange against the differing styles of our opponents.

But..and this has confused me slightly,we haven't utilised waghorn in that role and in fact that system hasn't been utilised at all and Frank shows no real interest in it up to now.

At this point in time,waghorns purchase is puzzling and lends the question of why we brought him in and shipped out the arguably superior Chris Martin when lamps doesn't seem to wish to play that kind of player in their natural role.....£3 million spent for why?

I'm not knocking Frank here,I'm a big fan of what he has already achieved here and his ethos for this club's footballing future but waghorns purpose aludes me at the minute.

 

[Duracell]

Everyone knows Waghorn is a better player than Bennett. Marriott has the potential to be better than Nugent, especially a knackered Nugent. If we know it than Lampard knows it more than anyone.

That leaves other reasons for why they are in the team over Marriott and Waghorn. It must be something Bennett and Nugent possess - a mentality, work rate, tactical awareness - or maybe something Marriott and Waghorn don’t have enough of yet.

It’s either a case of “watch and learn” or “you’re not in the team until you work hard at being ____ which is important to me.”

[angieram]

30 minutes ago, Duracell said:

Everyone knows Waghorn is a better player than Bennett. Marriott has the potential to be better than Nugent, especially a knackered Nugent. If we know it than Lampard knows it more than anyone.

That leaves other reasons for why they are in the team over Marriott and Waghorn. It must be something Bennett and Nugent possess - a mentality, work rate, tactical awareness - or maybe something Marriott and Waghorn don’t have enough of yet.

It’s either a case of “watch and learn” or “you’re not in the team until you work hard at being ____ which is important to me.”

I think with Marriott it has been fitness, Frank has mentioned it several times.

With Waghorn it is more of a conundrum; he looks fit but does he fit with our formation?

I would like to see him out wide, where he terrified several defences (including ours) last season. Lampard seems to prefer the younger players out there but I think we could have done with his physicality last night. Wilson looked a bit lost at times and was getting increasingly aggrieved that he wasn't getting the free kicks for challenges that would no doubt have been fouls in the Prem.

But this is the Championship and if I have a slight concern over Lampard's tactics it is that he needs to recognise this a bit more. So, a bit more squad rotation and a balance between skill and physicality in his team selections would improve our results, I am sure.

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, AdamRam said:

Tens of millions ?

Not playing ? Sure I seen all 3 on the playing field this season, maybe I need some new glasses ?

How much did Waghorn, Marriott and Jozefzoon cost then.

Yes you will have seen them all play, mostly thrown on when we are desperate for a goal.

It's only an observation and not a major criticism but rather than spending all of that money on players to warm the bench, why not spend it all on 1 proven match winner?

[Err ram io]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

How much did Waghorn, Marriott and Jozefzoon cost then.

Yes you will have seen them all play, mostly thrown on when we are desperate for a goal.

It's only an observation and not a major criticism but rather than spending all of that money on players to warm the bench, why not spend it all on 1 proven match winner?

Billy sharp ?

Can Mel afford him ???

[Ramarena]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I think with Marriott it has been fitness, Frank has mentioned it several times.

With Waghorn it is more of a conundrum; he looks fit but does he fit with our formation?

I would like to see him out wide, where he terrified several defences (including ours) last season. Lampard seems to prefer the younger players out there but I think we could have done with his physicality last night. Wilson looked a bit lost at times and was getting increasingly aggrieved that he wasn't getting the free kicks for challenges that would no doubt have been fouls in the Prem.

But this is the Championship and if I have a slight concern over Lampard's tactics it is that he needs to recognise this a bit more. So, a bit more squad rotation and a balance between skill and physicality in his team selections would improve our results, I am sure.

Yep Marriott is slowly beginning to get more game time as he goes, he can't be too far away from a start!

 

[Coneheadjohn]

6 hours ago, Smyth_18 said:

Spotted Maddison and the ridiculous queues to get a pic with him at half time.

Did he thrown himself on the floor when anyone got near him?

[Smyth_18]

9 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said:

Did he thrown himself on the floor when anyone got near him?

strangely, no. But his spirit seemed to transfer to the pitch.

[AdamRam]

39 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

How much did Waghorn, Marriott and Jozefzoon cost then.

Yes you will have seen them all play, mostly thrown on when we are desperate for a goal.

It's only an observation and not a major criticism but rather than spending all of that money on players to warm the bench, why not spend it all on 1 proven match winner?

Not sure how much, I can say though it wasn’t tens of millions.

Are they just bench warmers, or are they part of a squad that FL is putting together to challenge for the PL? 

As for the proven match winner, any ideas on who, interested to wonder who would come for around 10m in that bracket, what did Maddison go for?

[NorwichLad]

5 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

I agree, you did play the better football overall, but were architects of your own downfall. I had hoped that the physical skullduggery of the Alex Neill (?) days had gone, but they were simply disguised under the football equivalent of fake glasses and moustache. As soon as you realised that the ref was a soft touch, it started. Apart from the forearm smash on Wilson that should have been a red (penalty or not), virtually every time we threatened to break away, there was a cynical foul. There should have been several yellow cards, but only one given, IIRC. Standing over the ball to prevent a quick free-kick is a yellow card offence, but you did it every single time without the ref doing anything. I reckon you can hear him run past you from the swishing noise as his thighs rub together, because he certainly hasn't got any balls in there to keep them apart.

And right near the end, your Number 10 went down as though his ankles had been hacked off with a chainsaw, but was up and running unhindered  back to the half-way line less than a minute later. The ref knew he was faking it, but still gave the free-kick, even though there was no physical contact.

It provoked a huge reaction from the players and fans alike and fired us up. We got the equaliser, and could have gone on to nick the winner with a bit of luck, as your defence looked really worried. If only we had started off like that, it could have been a different match. But if only you had simply continued to play the better football, without all the cheating (oh, and the blatant timewasting, I forgot to mention that) you would have cruised to the wi

I always find it boring and tedious when people after a close game do a completely one sided analysis of the games refereeing decisions to be honest.

Especially when they bemoan the nature of the modern game on one hand with the buying the fouls and the going down easy and the timewasting.

But then on the other hand moan that somebody should have got a red card for something that wouldn't have been a yellow in the nineties. Thats literally your position. 

Yeah we've got a load of Germans... They are crafty, the whole world has known that for decades.

Personally I'm glad that the ref refrained from messing up a decent little battle between two decent sides by sending off either one of our left back or your right back... They are young and hot headed, good use of a bit of license by the ref.