StaffsRam Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 The defence is the focal point, as its most evident when things go wrong, but the problem stems from midfield. We had this before Eustace came in, and before George came in. We have a horrible knack of leaving our defence exposed. Keogh's a decent defender, but giving defenders a free run at him, or not giving him an option for a pass, is a recipe for disaster. The make up of our midfield is all wrong at the moment. For sides like Leeds we should be playing two defensive mids, not one. I think that, and Lowe being cruelly exposed at LB are our main issues - get that sorted, and the rest of the defence will be under far less pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Keep Keogh as a back up defender and move Pearce on. Tomori and Davies should be the starters this season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Keogh’s mistakes yesterday are the what. It’s the why that’s the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Said at the beginning of the summer that I thought this season was the one to move on from Keogh. I've defended him for years, but I just think it's gotten to the stage now where there's no love lost and that he's just made one too many errors in the eyes of Derby fans. I certainly think there's a percentage who will just never forgive him for Wembley. Tomori was the only bright spark in that game. He's earned a start at Millwall. Davies is the Captain, so perhaps this all just takes care of itself for Lampard. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, cannable said: Keogh’s mistakes yesterday are the what. It’s the why that’s the issue. So, are you saying, without Keogh's mistakes yesterday all would have been OK? That's what irritates me. Yes he does make mistakes but he hardly has a monopoly on mistakes and poor games but your comment implies he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleEatonRam Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 2 hours ago, angieram said: I'm not getting the love in for Tomori yet - I thought he was at fault in three of the Leeds goals. Yes, he looked classy on the ball and yes, the midfield were also at fault. He needs to be given time but I think Davies would have dealt with those three situations and it might have been a different result. Absolutely puzzled by the criticism Keogh is receiving - again. I didn't see the match yesterday but I have heard people raving about Tomori on here. I watched the highlights about half an hour ago though and he was all over the place for the goals. I wondered if it was the same player people were talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: So, are you saying, without Keogh's mistakes yesterday all would have been OK? That's what irritates me. Yes he does make mistakes but he hardly has a monopoly on mistakes and poor games but your comment implies he does. No, no I’m not. Why was he making mistakes? Because he was constantly trying to instigate attacks for a midfield and centre-forward who weren’t showing for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Smyth_18 said: Again. No, no, no. Why should he constantly be covered by a holding midfielder? He can't perform without one. So you're saying it's Keogh's fault Saiz was given acres of free space in front of the back four, leaving them all vulnerable? No. That was Ledley's fault. No defender is going to be able to cope with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Andicis said: So you're saying it's Keogh's fault Saiz was given acres of free space in front of the back four, leaving them all vulnerable? No. That was Ledley's fault. No defender is going to be able to cope with that. It'd be Ledley's fault if he was actually being told to sit and protect the back 4, but for reasons unknown we've set up the midfield to have 3 players, who've only ever played 2 competitive games together and haven't yet reached an understanding, rotating. Ledley shouldn't be there to push forward and Bryson is not a defensive midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipley Ram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said: I didn't see the match yesterday but I have heard people raving about Tomori on here. I watched the highlights about half an hour ago though and he was all over the place for the goals. I wondered if it was the same player people were talking about! He has a touch of the Titis Brambles about him, pace, power, tackling and an ability to find himself out of position or lose his man (2nd goal). But he is young and will learn and develop better habbits(before going back to Chelsea). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Oh and we had a 20 year old CB making his debut alongside a 21 year old LB, of course they're going to be a little all over the place, it's expected that the will make mistakes but that's when you might just expect the 32 year old, vastly more experienced defender youve built your defence around for the past 7 years next to them to reign them in a little bit and show some bloody on-pitch leadership skills. I don't even blame the defence that much for the second goal. It was an excellent cross, a strikers dream - it landed smack bang in the middle of the two young defenders who'd never played together before and they didn't have the experience to deal with it. poo happens, hopefully they learn from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Coconut said: Oh and we had a 20 year old CB making his debut alongside a 21 year old LB, of course they're going to be a little all over the place, it's expected that the will make mistakes but that's when you might just expect the 32 year old, vastly more experienced defender youve built your defence around for the past 7 years next to them to reign them in a little bit and show some bloody on-pitch leadership skills. I don't even blame the defence that much for the second goal. It was an excellent cross, a strikers dream - it landed smack bang in the middle of the two young defenders who'd never played together before and they didn't have the experience to deal with it. poo happens, hopefully they learn from it. Good post Coconut, I agree with all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 There was a discussion before the season started when some posters said the captaincy was nothing more than one of the players wearing an armband - well that's certainly what it was yesterday. No leadership, no organisation, no direction - with 2 kids in defence and Wisdom having a mare, why wasn't the captain grabbing hold of them and trying to sort things out? Why wasn't he demanding that Ledley held his position or that the midfield covered the fullbacks when they were struggling? Instead we had the usual shouting at others following his own mistakes and the terrifying blind passes or over hit attempts to clear the ball. I'm not a Keogh hater, but I thought he was very poor yesterday, both as defender and as our captain..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Keogh has been a good servant to the club, wears his heart on his sleeve. But i do think another couple of seasons and he will have to call it a day with playing at Championship level. But for now he fits the bill and deserves to be in the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Will be back-up this season. No room for sentiment if we want to push for promotion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 hour ago, reveldevil said: I think when it matters, and we're under the pump, Keogh loses his head. It's taken me 5 years or more to reach this conclusion, and I take no pleasure from it, but it's no use being great in 90% of games if you consistently crumble when it really matters. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu Dhabi Ram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Einstein once said “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” It’s time to move on from Keogh, I hope Lampard has the confidence to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Angry Ram said: Will be back-up this season. No room for sentiment if we want to push for promotion.. Who in our current squad would replace him, taking in mind Curtis Davies is out injured for a few weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I don’t think it’s a case of hating him, more of him being a complete clown and attracting the kind of feedback that a clown playing football may attract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 6 hours ago, angieram said: I'm not getting the love in for Tomori yet - I thought he was at fault in three of the Leeds goals. Yes, he looked classy on the ball and yes, the midfield were also at fault. He needs to be given time but I think Davies would have dealt with those three situations and it might have been a different result. Absolutely puzzled by the criticism Keogh is receiving - again. I can ease your puzzlement because it's easily explained. Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. Those that dislike Keogh will see his mistakes and struggle to see the good stuff he does. And I mean quite literally they will miss stuff or dismiss it. That's confirmation bias. When he does something well the brain will either ignore it or look for reasons why it was lucky, a one-off, not really down to him etc. Otherwise it creates cognitive dissonance as the brain tries to hold two contradictory beliefs at the same time, which it hates doing. It's not intentional, it's just the way the human brain works if we don't step in to question our own beliefs, and few people do. Oh, and of course the same will be true for most Keogh supporters. Nuance is a thing of the past sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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