SuperDerbySuperRams Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Keogh has been terrible this season so far. He was excellent last season. He deserves critisim, along with about 9 others. Lowe and Tomori were equally as shocking yesterday. What I don’t like is when people scapegoat Keogh, because he’s the easy target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, loweman2 said: I don’t think it’s a case of hating him, more of him being a complete clown and attracting the kind of feedback that a clown playing football may attract. We need to get rid of Frank then if he's so lacking as a manager that he would keep a clown on the squad. Of course Frank may have not watched any tape of RK from last season (the first half of which he was outstanding) and not know he's a clown. But then Frank is a joker for not doing his job properly. It's clowns to the left of me me and jokers to the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, SuperDerbySuperRams said: Keogh has been terrible this season so far. He was excellent last season. He deserves critisim, along with about 9 others. Lowe and Tomori were equally as shocking yesterday. What I don’t like is when people scapegoat Keogh, because he’s the easy target. I think they are all jealous of his model like good looks.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 31 minutes ago, loweman2 said: I don’t think it’s a case of hating him, more of him being a complete clown and attracting the kind of feedback that a clown playing football may attract. You tell me who his passing options were when he was trying to play it and then I’ll let you call him a clown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, cannable said: You tell me who his passing options were when he was trying to play it and then I’ll let you call him a clown My view is based on the last five seasons or so not yesterday, in my opinion the man is a clown ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said: We need to get rid of Frank then if he's so lacking as a manager that he would keep a clown on the squad. Of course Frank may have not watched any tape of RK from last season (the first half of which he was outstanding) and not know he's a clown. But then Frank is a joker for not doing his job properly. It's clowns to the left of me me and jokers to the right. The thing was, yesterday was totally Lampard’s fault. After ten minutes it was clear that we needed Ledley subbing off and a controlling midfielder in his place (none of whom were in the squad) or a complete change in formation and going man for man against them and scrapping it out. But he isn’t an easy target… can’t criticise a new manager in his second game… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Just now, loweman2 said: My view is based on the last five seasons or so not yesterday, in my opinion the man is a clown ! Who has won two of our own POTS awards and his been in the PFA TOTSs… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, cannable said: Who has won two of our own POTS awards and his been in the PFA TOTSs… This guy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, loweman2 said: This guy ? With how the game’s evolved he’s actually probably better than McFarland and Todd were in one ??♀️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, cannable said: With how the game’s evolved he’s actually probably better than McFarland and Todd were in one ??♀️ Sunday drinking is fun, but you've overdone it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, reveldevil said: Sunday drinking is fun, but you've overdone it. You weren’t the one the bait was aimed for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, cannable said: The thing was, yesterday was totally Lampard’s fault. After ten minutes it was clear that we needed Ledley subbing off and a controlling midfielder in his place (none of whom were in the squad) or a complete change in formation and going man for man against them and scrapping it out. But he isn’t an easy target… can’t criticise a new manager in his second game… Yes, our new manager, in only his second competitive game as a manager should be criticised...and let's pick on the youth players also who are learning the game still. Yet our highly experienced captain... Enough people are picking up on Keogh and his ways for it to not be irrational. You can keep dressing Keogh up in the latest shirt but the same old things keep happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Just now, BondJovi said: Yes, our new manager, in only his second competitive game as a manager should be criticised...and let's pick on the youth players also who are learning the game still. Yet our highly experienced captain... Enough people are picking up on Keogh and his ways for it to not be irrational. You can keep dressing Keogh up in the latest shirt but the same old things keep happening. Like what? Every single time we concede X number of goals it’s Keogh’s fault? Even Burton away last season when he didn’t play? Which of my criticisms of Lampard were unfair then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, cannable said: You weren’t the one the bait was aimed for ? Nothing worse than casting for a big fish and landing a tiddler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTrustTheDevilInside Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 19 hours ago, TroyDyer said: Crazy Keogh hating sounds like there is no lead up to it, like it came from nowhere like when Beckham lashed out at Simeone. But it's nothing like that. It's the same thing over and over and over again. Better players have come and gone, been sold on the cheap, or never given a proper crack at it. And all the while there is a new contract on the table for a guy that despite decent runs of form, has always let the club down when it's really come down to it. He's started this season, under a new manager, a fresh start, how he's played most seasons. A confused mess. At 32 that isn't going to change. 6 years of earning out of derby in a week, what most derby fans don't even earn in a year. The Keogh calling out isn't crazy, what's crazy is that he's still being played. Although I think Lampard is a tad more intelligent than the rest, and will see through the gumpf. Hell yes.... time and time again including in this post every other player is blamed to save keogh. Established championship/premiership players have come and gone after being ‘shown up’ playing next to keogh and the common denominator lives on (who hasn’t played premier league football or for any other high level championship side) 18 hours ago, Coconut said: Keogh plays like Keogh plays no matter who he's playing alongside. He can get away with it alongside experienced players but when he's with someone who needs a little guidance be doesn't / can't adapt his game to help see them through it. If panic sets in there needs to be someone who steps up and provides a calming influence, especially when trying to bring young players through. Keogh can never be that player, infact he exacerbates the problem, nearly every time. It's just so hard to trust him. Should we need experienced player to bail out an experienced defender? 9 hours ago, Smyth_18 said: Sick of the endless backing of Keogh. He learns absolutely nothing from his mistakes. He hides from piss poor performances after the games leaving Davies to pick up the pieces. Fans up and down the country in general can't wait to come up against him. A Leeds fan text me before the game saying exactly what was going to happen to Keogh. As much as a twit Morrison was, he's saying what every team thinks coming up against him. Truth hurts. Lack of back bone... more than a few have picked up on this and it’s completely relevant. Finally he’s been removed from captain but he shouldn’t be second choice... I can name 3 players who played yesterday who should be ahead of him and dozens in the squad! 9 hours ago, Smyth_18 said: Again. No, no, no. Why should he constantly be covered by a holding midfielder? He can't perform without one. As some one very well pointed out, if the midfielders aren’t offering protection a strong leader of the defence should be marshalling this issue 9 hours ago, nottingram said: I came away from the game yesterday thinking Keogh has chosen a bad time to start playing poorly. Then I saw our resident attention seekers on here going on as if we have Claude Davis back there and came to my senses. Let’s not forget that he had a top player at this level, Saiz, running at him every two minutes because Ledley couldn’t / wouldn’t track him at all. Then let’s not forget they had Klich making runs from midfield all game because Bryson couldn’t / wouldn’t track him. Then let’s not forget that he has Wisdom next to him who seems to get away with being rubbish offensively and defensively because he once parked his car in a puddle and it was funny. Then he had Tomori next to him who looks very promising but is, based on yesterday, positionally naive. Yes he has the pace to recover but that doesn’t mean that Keogh doesn’t also have to worry about where he is at times. And finally you have Max Lowe who while again is promising, has no idea how to defend a cross at the back post. In all honesty calamity Claude was awful but was a) equally recognised by multiple managers including being signed twice to play in the premiership b) was recognised as a capable defender before coming to derby at least at championship level. Keogh wasn’t 7 hours ago, Newleaf said: Didn’t think it was Keoghs worst game. Thought Lowe was poor as was Wisdom. Midfield non existent More scapegoats killed off in the name of keogH 6 hours ago, DcfcJB said: I’m normally defending Keogh as I’ve alwayd thought we can’t really get another CB in this league that would improve on him a lot. However l am struggling to defend him based on what I’ve seen in the last two games, forgetting a couple of small mistakes - you have to say he was one of the most experienced players on the pitch yesterday and he did nothing to rally the team when we were under pressure, didn’t support Tomori (in fact after watching the highlights this morning it was Tomori covering him) I don’t put the game solely down to him but he went missing and the youth we have needed a leader. Im not saying Keogh out, but we desperately missed Davies to provide the leadership and experience and Huddlestone who also does the same in midfield. It’s no coincidence that we don’t perform without them - this year and last. Yet if we were to look at another defender Tim Ream at Fulham would have been perfect for our style of play this year. Didn’t make the bench for Fulham yesterday unsure if he was injured. Great post and very true 3 hours ago, Coconut said: Oh and we had a 20 year old CB making his debut alongside a 21 year old LB, of course they're going to be a little all over the place, it's expected that the will make mistakes but that's when you might just expect the 32 year old, vastly more experienced defender youve built your defence around for the past 7 years next to them to reign them in a little bit and show some bloody on-pitch leadership skills. Very valid to point out the age and also senior appearances in the defence. 2 at least shouldn’t be criticised if they learn one deserves what he gets from that performance 1 hour ago, Gaspode said: There was a discussion before the season started when some posters said the captaincy was nothing more than one of the players wearing an armband - well that's certainly what it was yesterday. No leadership, no organisation, no direction - with 2 kids in defence and Wisdom having a mare, why wasn't the captain grabbing hold of them and trying to sort things out? Why wasn't he demanding that Ledley held his position or that the midfield covered the fullbacks when they were struggling? Instead we had the usual shouting at others following his own mistakes and the terrifying blind passes or over hit attempts to clear the ball. I'm not a Keogh hater, but I thought he was very poor yesterday, both as defender and as our captain..... He’s always been the worst example of leadership and only slowly people are recognising this. How many former captains have we/do we have that have been overlooked !? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, cannable said: Like what? Every single time we concede X number of goals it’s Keogh’s fault? Even Burton away last season when he didn’t play? Which of my criticisms of Lampard were unfair then? Players make mistakes, but Keogh does things that I wouldn't expect youth players to do. In that position you need a calm head, Keogh is not that. For the most part he is a good player, but when he gets wrong, it seems to be costly and at key times. Lampard will make mistakes, be stupid to expect otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 hour ago, plymouthram said: Who in our current squad would replace him, taking in mind Curtis Davies is out injured for a few weeks Is that not the definition of back up? He will be in until Davies returns IMO. Then take a back seat until needed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, BondJovi said: Players make mistakes, but Keogh does things that I wouldn't expect youth players to do. In that position you need a calm head, Keogh is not that. For the most part he is a good player, but when he gets wrong, it seems to be costly and at key times. Lampard will make mistakes, be stupid to expect otherwise. But this is the thing, his mistakes were from him trying to play it out from the back which is what we try to do as a team. This flexible midfield and Leeds’ pressing made this totally impossible. You could argue that repeatedly pumping it upfield as opposed to trying to play is showing even less of a cool head. Leeds emphasised problems that were evident against Reading. Trying to play the same way against Leeds yesterday wasn’t a mistake, perhaps Lampard thought we could coach past them. The mistakes were; not having the players on the bench to fix the problems and not changing the system, acknowledging that Leeds were killing us. I wasn’t really trying to have a go at Lampard. I was more trying to point out that we committed to a system that doesn’t seem to be working and couldn’t change it. Nobody should really be being criticised after yesterday, the system left all ten outfielders vulnerable to being pulled around. It should be a lesson learned - we need a controlling midfielder, the other two to play further up the pitch and the striker to link-up play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loweman2 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 28 minutes ago, cannable said: But this is the thing, his mistakes were from him trying to play it out from the back which is what we try to do as a team. This flexible midfield and Leeds’ pressing made this totally impossible. You could argue that repeatedly pumping it upfield as opposed to trying to play is showing even less of a cool head. Leeds emphasised problems that were evident against Reading. Trying to play the same way against Leeds yesterday wasn’t a mistake, perhaps Lampard thought we could coach past them. The mistakes were; not having the players on the bench to fix the problems and not changing the system, acknowledging that Leeds were killing us. I wasn’t really trying to have a go at Lampard. I was more trying to point out that we committed to a system that doesn’t seem to be working and couldn’t change it. Nobody should really be being criticised after yesterday, the system left all ten outfielders vulnerable to being pulled around. It should be a lesson learned - we need a controlling midfielder, the other two to play further up the pitch and the striker to link-up play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, loweman2 said: Be quiet. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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