Centre Half Video Nasty

[therealhantsram]

1 hour ago, archied said:

Never been a keough knocker but last night made me wonder whether he can play in a Frank team

I'll say again what I said in the match day thread. The problem was not Keogh. The problem was the midfield failing to show for him. Ledley in particular had a poor game. We need much more from the holding midfielder in this formation than intercepting attacks. They need to start the forward play off. Without a functional midfield Keogh was being left to try and be the playmaker himself. 

Laudible goals for the lad... But its not his job. 

Ledley was the first to get subbed off last night and I wasn't surprised. Hopefully have Huddlestone back next week. 

[Ellafella]

8 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

I'll say again what I said in the match day thread. The problem was not Keogh. The problem was the midfield failing to show for him. Ledley in particular had a poor game. We need much more from the holding midfielder in this formation than intercepting attacks. They need to start the forward play off. Without a functional midfield Keogh was being left to try and be the playmaker himself. 

Laudible goals for the lad... But its not his job. 

Ledley was the first to get subbed off last night and I wasn't surprised. Hopefully have Huddlestone back next week. 

Spot on. The problem was midfield not centre half. If you look at the game there was a line across midfield that Reading “owned” for a while because our midfield were absent. John Eustace would have snuffed that; Hudd too and George Thorne. 

[SillyBilly]

44 minutes ago, ossieram said:

First half looked like players making mistakes because they were trying too hard to please Frank. He obviously had a word at HT and calmed them down and got them playing better with less errors.  Clement obviously helped us out by reverting to type after they scored by trying to get them to defend their lead. But Keogh didn't make any more mistakes than any of the others, but it's more noticeable because of the position he plays. 

The position you play with regard to mistakes is critical. Reading found that out last night with their GK. Some positions can afford no mistakes, others less. Albeit I am not concerned about last night for the reasons you mention. We know what Keogh is though, a largely solid and reliable defender but one that makes clangers from time to time. Nothing has changed.

[Alph]

9 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

The position you play with regard to mistakes is critical. Reading found that out last night with their GK. Some positions can afford no mistakes, others less. Albeit I am not concerned about last night for the reasons you mention. We know what Keogh is though, a largely solid and reliable defender but one that makes clangers from time to time. Nothing has changed.

I agree but until we spend millions on a CB we are probably going to have to put up with nervy moments from ball playing CB's. 

Any CB that can defend like Davies but pass like the best Keogh is going to get pulled up to the PL. 

I think this is just about the best balance of a CB at this level. 

I'm surprised Rowett played him so much as I thought he'd go for a more solid defender. Whereas Pep would replace him instantly with Anya...

He's a bit of a Jack of all trades master of none. But it tends to be slightly either/or in these leagues, if that's fair to say?

[Woodley Ram]

2 hours ago, irobinson said:

Tell you what I was amazed by our centre half performance last night - surely a better team would have punished us 3/4 times over!!

If I was FL I would be showing that video footage to them and say WTF!! Astonishing!!

Keogh looked like he had never played football at all in his life for about 25 minutes....my hand was in my mouth...thought he might pull him off he was so bad

Be interesting to hear everyones else thoughts....but my investment after that performance would be a new centre half - not up top...we are doing alright there...thought Mason was excellent when he came on.

 

 

It was because the full backs bombed forward and left them exposed. Keogh had a nightmare few minutes with his passing , what is it with Keogh and teams in blue and white hoops 

[unclej]

2 hours ago, Alpha said:

Well he was fine against Wolves and Southampton. He has been fine for the vast majority of his... 5/6 years here when playing every game and he was fine in the second half. 

 

My wife says 'fine' to me when its definitely not. I catch your drift.

[Sexydadbod]

Keogh and Davies may be good championship defenders in their own right, but they can’t play in a high line because they don’t have the speed to recover due to their age. Better teams would have scored 4 or 5 last night. Someone said it in the match thread but it was like watching Germany in this year’s World Cup. Both full backs playing far too high up and no protection in front of them. There’s no way that we can continue to play like that. 

Davies and Keogh looked better last year because they played in a deeper block where their lack of pace wasn’t exposed that often, in addition to having two defensive midfielders in front of them.

[RoyMac5]

3 hours ago, Alpha said:

Yet Andre Wisdom imo set alarm bells ringing with the way he played because he showed no interest in moving the ball quickly. He had no urgency or ambition at all. Keogh lost the ball doing what Lampard asked for. As did Max Lowe. But Wisdom kept the ball by being negative and slow. He also allowed 2 headers from crosses because he was busy trying to push people rather than attack the ball. The exact same tactic that got him booked. If there's alarm bells then it's at RB where we have no options really. 

?

I hope he gets his poo together - not sure I'd fancy him at centre half - because at this rate Bogle will be playing. Which in turn will help Wilson.

[froggg]

2 hours ago, irobinson said:

oh PS  - that kit.......coolest ever

I agree, are you listening Mel Morris?

[Cam the Ram]

1 hour ago, therealhantsram said:

I'll say again what I said in the match day thread. The problem was not Keogh. The problem was the midfield failing to show for him. Ledley in particular had a poor game. We need much more from the holding midfielder in this formation than intercepting attacks. They need to start the forward play off. Without a functional midfield Keogh was being left to try and be the playmaker himself. 

Laudible goals for the lad... But its not his job. 

Ledley was the first to get subbed off last night and I wasn't surprised. Hopefully have Huddlestone back next week. 

Very similar to what I said in the Keogh thread. In the 2nd half the midfielders were moving a lot more and so we saw plenty of those driven balls into feet from Keogh that we're used to. In the first half the midfielders were static so the only options he had were to give it to Davies or Wisdom who would then just give it back to him

[mozza]

2 hours ago, irobinson said:

oh PS  - that kit.......coolest ever

Probably be a bit threadbare now, have a word with @loweman2

[S8TY]

There is no excuse for Keoghs terrible passes last night , if the midfielders were not showing as some suggest then you keep the ball and recycle it until one is available and Keogh especially was guilty of trying to force a pass when it was not on and a better side would’ve punished us for sure.

To be honest Wisdom was poor last night as well and second half we went longer with the ball as maybe FL and co had seen the distribution was not good so probably said get it forward earlier there was definitely a change of tactics and we moved it quicker .....

on a plus point though we didn’t play well yet we won and that is a good sign because we can play better and will, I’m not sure long term that Keogh,Wisdom and Davies are the footballing defenders that Frank wants to ensure we are comfortable playing out from the back but we are a work in progress and it’s early days and I am so glad we are much more entertaining to watch already than Rowetts hoof ball....

exciing times to be a rams fan ...??

[sage]

4 hours ago, irobinson said:

Tell you what I was amazed by our centre half performance last night - surely a better team would have punished us 3/4 times over!!

If I was FL I would be showing that video footage to them and say WTF!! Astonishing!!

Keogh looked like he had never played football at all in his life for about 25 minutes....my hand was in my mouth...thought he might pull him off he was so bad

Be interesting to hear everyones else thoughts....but my investment after that performance would be a new centre half - not up top...we are doing alright there...thought Mason was excellent when he came on.

 

 

Their passing was poor but there are a lack of movement in front of them and Reading pressed well. It changed second half hen we played a few balls down the channels an made them back off a bit. 

[Cam the Ram]

13 minutes ago, Saity said:

There is no excuse for Keoghs terrible passes last night , if the midfielders were not showing as some suggest then you keep the ball and recycle it until one is available and Keogh especially was guilty of trying to force a pass when it was not on and a better side would’ve punished us for sure.

To be honest Wisdom was poor last night as well and second half we went longer with the ball as maybe FL and co had seen the distribution was not good so probably said get it forward earlier there was definitely a change of tactics and we moved it quicker .....

on a plus point though we didn’t play well yet we won and that is a good sign because we can play better and will, I’m not sure long term that Keogh,Wisdom and Davies are the footballing defenders that Frank wants to ensure we are comfortable playing out from the back but we are a work in progress and it’s early days and I am so glad we are much more entertaining to watch already than Rowetts hoof ball....

exciing times to be a rams fan ...??

That's exactly what he was doing. The two big mistakes he made came from a simple pass towards Davies and then one towards a centre mid who was near him. It's not like he made the errors trying to play a defence splitting pass through 5 or 6 people. He must have passed it to Wisdom and Davies, recycling the ball as you put it, around 30 or 40 times in that first half and unfortunately he wasn't fully concentrating for 2 of them and messed up. It was the 2nd half in which Keogh tried to force passes, but thanks to the midfield having a bit more movement taking away Reading players to make space, he was able to pull off those driven passes into feet more often than not

[Bwash_Ram]

Its just Keogh being Keogh, brilliant for 3 or 4 games then has a mare for 20 mins then brilliant again.

I think overall he deserves to keep his place because when he's good he's very good.

[StockholmRam]

2 hours ago, ossieram said:

First half looked like players making mistakes because they were trying too hard to please Frank. He obviously had a word at HT and calmed them down and got them playing better with less errors.  Clement obviously helped us out by reverting to type after they scored by trying to get them to defend their lead. But Keogh didn't make any more mistakes than any of the others, but it's more noticeable because of the position he plays. 

This is perfect for me Ossie...just as I saw it too. Noticeable first half the energy of Reading was very high, playing 4-4-2 they obviously knew our play out from the back game plan. Wolves and Saints previously were a bit sluggish closing us down and gave us space to play in. Pre seasons can often be quite open. 

Given fitness, nerves, pressure of getting everything right then I'm going to be forgiving of the first half. I'm sure we will get better at what we are trying to do.  I thought the team sucked first half, not just poor Keogh.  Very pleased to see a manager and coaching team respond at half time, recognize the issues and effect changes for 2nd half. 

What I don't agree with is Frank or the pundits " Reading didn't deserve to lose" claptrap... This is football. It's about how many times you put the ball in the net. Possession stats count for Nowt when you have been gifted a hatful of chances and missed most of them. 

We created three decent chances in the game and converted two. History books won't say Reading 1- 2 Derby " but Reading didn't deserve to lose..."

Bring on the dirties... 

[TuffLuff]

25 minutes ago, sage said:

Their passing was poor but there are a lack of movement in front of them and Reading pressed well. It changed second half hen we played a few balls down the channels an made them back off a bit. 

You mean, we might actually have a plan B in place?

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, StockholmRam said:

What I don't agree with is Frank or the pundits " Reading didn't deserve to lose" claptrap... 

Nothing wrong with being generous when you win.

[whiteroseram]

I think when it comes to the way FL wants to play, the back 5 (include CDM) were always going to take longest to adjust so we could put it down to teething problems.

But I do wonder how well Wisdom will fit that system when his only back up is 17, but he looked ok pre season so not going to panic over 1 game (which we won)

[StockholmRam]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Nothing wrong with being generous when you win.

Being generous doesn't make it true though Roy... 

I was watching at home in Sweden and the commentary team over here wanted us jailed for robbery it felt like.