Snake City watch

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure why you find this so hard to believe, you only need to look how the fans attitudes changed to him over the same period of time to see why his stance may have changed.

If I remember correctly, we had an awful start to the season and there were plenty calling for his head by the end of September. We then go on a good run and he's flavour of the month again. The post Xmas collapse follows and by now the fans are venomous and even when we do win matches, Rowett sometimes mentions about the fans and not knowing what they want.

As you mentioned, his son is a season ticket holder and no doubt would report home to his dad how the crowd were reacting. At the end of the day they are only human no matter how much they are being paid or how long they have lived here. Maybe he just decided the time was right to get out of Derby before it became a place he despised and I can't really blame him if that was his reasoning because I'm sure he also has some very happy memories of the place.

He was flavour of the month with many when he was winning. I was one of those. How can you argue with the most 3-0 wins in the league. That’s clearly the sign of a great team, no?

but there were others arguing throughout the purple patch that the scores were flattering. The style of football was not what we want to see. 

I’m just an armchair fan, so what do I know. I look at the results and like what I see. But even when we were winning, there was plenty of discontent from the season ticket holders about the way we were winning. 

So it’s not that difficult for him to work out what the fans want, and it’s not his style of football. So maybe you’re right, he worked that out, new he wasn’t going to change his style of football any time soon, so thought it best if he take the opportunity to leave. And it worked out well for everyone (except stoke).

Fair play to those guys that called it. 

One then I will say for Rowett though, is that he was able to implement a plan be, going with 5 at the back towards the end of the season, to stop the rot a bit. No one before him has been able to do that. So he wasn’t totally inflexible. 

I have fond memories of him as a player, so I can’t give him too much hatred, and I hope he has some fond memories of that time too, and this’ll all be water under the bridge one day. 

But it’s still all good bants. 

[cannable]

Do people hate him? It’s all just pantomime innit?

 

Pearson on the other hand… I mean it when I say that I would have done a better job than him

[G STAR RAM]

42 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

He was flavour of the month with many when he was winning. I was one of those. How can you argue with the most 3-0 wins in the league. That’s clearly the sign of a great team, no?

but there were others arguing throughout the purple patch that the scores were flattering. The style of football was not what we want to see. 

I’m just an armchair fan, so what do I know. I look at the results and like what I see. But even when we were winning, there was plenty of discontent from the season ticket holders about the way we were winning. 

So it’s not that difficult for him to work out what the fans want, and it’s not his style of football. So maybe you’re right, he worked that out, new he wasn’t going to change his style of football any time soon, so thought it best if he take the opportunity to leave. And it worked out well for everyone (except stoke).

Fair play to those guys that called it. 

One then I will say for Rowett though, is that he was able to implement a plan be, going with 5 at the back towards the end of the season, to stop the rot a bit. No one before him has been able to do that. So he wasn’t totally inflexible. 

I have fond memories of him as a player, so I can’t give him too much hatred, and I hope he has some fond memories of that time too, and this’ll all be water under the bridge one day. 

But it’s still all good bants. 

Still not really sure what people think 'they called' though.

We were one of the top scorers in the league and had one of the best defences. Last time I checked they were the 2 most important things to a team.

Sure it wasn't pretty on the eye at times but it was a far cry from the Billy Davies era when we only ever wondered games by the odd goal.

Unfortunately we are now in a time where Sky TV have managed to convince fans that passes and possession are more important than defending and attacking. Unfortunately for managers these stats don't really tend to matter that much to their employers who are more concerned with points and promotion!

 

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Unfortunately we are now in a time where Sky TV have managed to convince fans that passes and possession are more important than defending and attacking.

To be fair, I think whilst Sky is a tiny bit of the blame, Derby fans had come from seeing McClaren sides dominate possession and look extremely fluid in attack, which was pretty much the complete opposite from Rowett's boring style. I'd say McClaren raised the expectations we as a fanbase, have for managers.

[G STAR RAM]

14 minutes ago, Andicis said:

To be fair, I think whilst Sky is a tiny bit of the blame, Derby fans had come from seeing McClaren sides dominate possession and look extremely fluid in attack, which was pretty much the complete opposite from Rowett's boring style. I'd say McClaren raised the expectations we as a fanbase, have for managers.

Yes that's a fair comment. Looking at the stats we scored 15 fewer goals under Rowett and conceded only 4 less.

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, cannable said:

Do people hate him? It’s all just pantomime innit?

 

Pearson on the other hand… I mean it when I say that I would have done a better job than him

To be honest I think a lot of fans could have done. It's the single most incompetent managerial displays I've ever seen and I'm convinced we would have been at a high risk of relegation had he not been sacked.

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Still not really sure what people think 'they called' though.

We were one of the top scorers in the league and had one of the best defences. Last time I checked they were the 2 most important things to a team.

Sure it wasn't pretty on the eye at times but it was a far cry from the Billy Davies era when we only ever wondered games by the odd goal.

Unfortunately we are now in a time where Sky TV have managed to convince fans that passes and possession are more important than defending and attacking. Unfortunately for managers these stats don't really tend to matter that much to their employers who are more concerned with points and promotion!

 

I think the issue with it was even when we were winning comfortabley it didn't feel comfortable. Teams would have more possession, better territory, create chances and have a whole load of shots against us. Yet we would clinically dispatch 2 or 3 good chances and win the game by a decent margin. 

It just felt unsustainable and I think the turn in form after January demonstrated that.

[brady1993]

On 23/09/2018 at 19:23, G STAR RAM said:

The Hughes sale aside, I'm struggling to understand the hatred for Rowett.

He took us to the play offs. Improved Vydra beyond recognition, enabling us to cash in on him this summer (which probably made up for the Hughes fee).

His permanent signings on the whole were pretty good value for money.

Most people did not like his brand of football and wanted him gone anyway, and we supposedly got £2m compensation for it.

 

Hatred is perhaps a strong word for how I feel about him. But I do dislike the guy, mostly because I think he has a nasty streak of dishonesty about hom and I think he somewhat selfishly went about his business in his time here to get a quick promotion on his CV or get close enough so he could secure a prem job.

TLDR; The guy is a snake

[TuffLuff]

2 hours ago, cannable said:

Do people hate him? It’s all just pantomime innit?

 

Pearson on the other hand… I mean it when I say that I would have done a better job than him

If you are comparing the two I’d say although I disagree with a lot of what Pearson did, we knew what we were getting in terms of style of play, attitude. Many agreed actually that a more no nonsense style was needed. To be honest I agreed with that at the time, but we were wrong. Alas, we knew what we were getting and it just turned out to be a bad move for everyone. So while I don’t think he’s my type of manager, I hold no real ill there. 

Rowett on the other hand was sold on he’d cut down the squad, work within a budget, being through the youth and in reality he didn’t even try to achieve these over his own short term aims. He also helped create division among fans through his style and treatment of players. The amount of negative threads did we get over Lawrence, Keogh, Weimann, Johnson, Forsyth etc but really how many of them were being improved by Rowett’s management? Heck I was told by one Curtains that none of our reserve players were anywhere near ready for the first team and that was only because Rowett wasn’t interested in them. Look what’s happened with Johnson, Forsyth this season with a bit of work. Bogle, Bennett and Lowe have all started this season and been praised. Others have been put on the bench. That’s why I don’t like Rowett, he sold us a lie and tried to look after his own ambition. Only Vydra you can say improved under his reign, and that’s only because Rowett set up the team to get the best out of him. 

[Dale The Ram]

2 hours ago, brady1993 said:

I think the issue with it was even when we were winning comfortabley it didn't feel comfortable. Teams would have more possession, better territory, create chances and have a whole load of shots against us. Yet we would clinically dispatch 2 or 3 good chances and win the game by a decent margin. 

It just felt unsustainable and I think the turn in form after January demonstrated that.

Just like that 5-0 against Hull.

Hull hit the post twice, missed a penalty and a few sitters.

Rowett wins just felt as though the footballing gods chose the outcome

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Hatred is perhaps a strong word for how I feel about him. But I do dislike the guy, mostly because I think he has a nasty streak of dishonesty about hom and I think he somewhat selfishly went about his business in his time here to get a quick promotion on his CV or get close enough so he could secure a prem job.

TLDR; The guy is a snake

You may well be right buy you have to question MMs role in it though.

What happened to the 'Derby way', and promotion of youth spiel that had been put out there over the previous 2 seasons?

MM must have authorised the signings of Davies, Huddlestone and Ledley?

He also seemed to defend GR over the lack of playing time for the youngsters at one of the fan forums.

Maybe it was MM that wanted the quick promotion? Let's not forget since that time there has been zero outlay on players and cost cutting measures implemented in the academy, on top of sending out on loan some of our most talented youngsters.

[cannable]

23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You may well be right buy you have to question MMs role in it though.

What happened to the 'Derby way', and promotion of youth spiel that had been put out there over the previous 2 seasons?

MM must have authorised the signings of Davies, Huddlestone and Ledley?

He also seemed to defend GR over the lack of playing time for the youngsters at one of the fan forums.

Maybe it was MM that wanted the quick promotion? Let's not forget since that time there has been zero outlay on players and cost cutting measures implemented in the academy, on top of sending out on loan some of our most talented youngsters.

Ironically, last season’s short term approach generated the funds for rebuilding us into a younger footballing side again. 

Don’t get me wrong, Stoke paying for Rowett and thus Weimann, Jerome and Vydra becoming surplus was sheer luck but it’s funny how it’s turned out. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

You may well be right buy you have to question MMs role in it though.

What happened to the 'Derby way', and promotion of youth spiel that had been put out there over the previous 2 seasons?

MM must have authorised the signings of Davies, Huddlestone and Ledley?

He also seemed to defend GR over the lack of playing time for the youngsters at one of the fan forums.

Maybe it was MM that wanted the quick promotion? Let's not forget since that time there has been zero outlay on players and cost cutting measures implemented in the academy, on top of sending out on loan some of our most talented youngsters.

Backs his manager?

I think MM has generally bbacked them but demanded results ffrom it.

 

[Bris Vegas]

I have nothing against Rowett. He would have probably been sacked had he stayed here, considering how the tide was turning against him.

You can’t blame him for adopting a short-term approach last season and going all-out for promotion. Reaching the playoffs looks far better on his CV than say finishing 11th and getting sacked after trying to build a new, younger team.

If managers aren’t guaranteed to stay for the durarion of their contract, then you can’t blame them for making decisions which give them the best chance of immediate success. Rowett did that here. As fans we hate it, but I personally can understand it.

I can also fully understand his motives for moving to Stoke. Any smart manager who isn’t in a privileged position would do the same.

Lampard I feel is in a privileged position. I feel his reputation, and this being his first job, means Morris will give him 3+ years regardless of how we do to get it right. The way we try and play added by the overwhelming support from the fans means he will be given plenty of time to create a team here, hence the long-term view to signing younger players.

If this was Rowett’s dream job, he might be cheesed off at what’s going on here and the almost free pass Lampard has been given. Rowett couñd be bitter and probably wonders why he wasn’t given the same assurances.

 

 

[ImARam2]

I doubt that Frank Lampard will be given 3+ years as the average for a Championship manager/coach is 18 months - approx. 2 seasons.

This season is a "give-away" as FL builds his team and puts over his playing style & philosophy, and wherever the team finish will be OK by MM and the fans, as long as there's been an improvement, which I think after the game last Saturday, we've all seen.

The 2nd season is the one that matters - another improvement in playing style, better & younger players (and note many of the "older" & high earners will be out of contract), with an absolute requirement of the play-offs, with a possibility of promotion.

Then if we don't get promotion in the 2nd season, then the 3rd season will be "hit-or-bust" for FL.

And if we do get promotion, other Premier League clubs will come poaching and I know Chelsea is "his team", I think someone like West Ham or even Spurs might take a chance - only my opinion of course.

[AdamRam]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

I have nothing against Rowett. He would have probably been sacked had he stayed here, considering how the tide was turning against him.

You can’t blame him for adopting a short-term approach last season and going all-out for promotion. Reaching the playoffs looks far better on his CV than say finishing 11th and getting sacked after trying to build a new, younger team.

If managers aren’t guaranteed to stay for the durarion of their contract, then you can’t blame them for making decisions which give them the best chance of immediate success. Rowett did that here. As fans we hate it, but I personally can understand it.

I can also fully understand his motives for moving to Stoke. Any smart manager who isn’t in a privileged position would do the same.

Lampard I feel is in a privileged position. I feel his reputation, and this being his first job, means Morris will give him 3+ years regardless of how we do to get it right. The way we try and play added by the overwhelming support from the fans means he will be given plenty of time to create a team here, hence the long-term view to signing younger players.

If this was Rowett’s dream job, he might be cheesed off at what’s going on here and the almost free pass Lampard has been given. Rowett couñd be bitter and probably wonders why he wasn’t given the same assurances.

 

 

I personally couldn’t give a monkeys about him jumping ship, I made no bones about his playing style being awful and don’t care about what he said about this being his dream job, glad to see him go, don’t hold it against him I would never wish the sack on anyone.

Why Did he take a short term approach though, unless he already had the Stoke job lined up, getting rid of Hughes for example was just stupidity, getting to the play offs had been achieved by managers before him, so was it that big a deal, and did failing so spectacularly against Fulham look good on his CV. Was he thinking I’ll stay if we get promoted and jump if not?

Chairman will surely look at him now as well and think this is someone who will quite happily jump ship, if he can’t even commit for 6 months after signing on the dotted line, why should I have the risk of a rebuilding job for another manager by employing him?

As for the assurances, wasn’t a new contract excactly that?

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

If this was Rowett’s dream job, he might be cheesed off at what’s going on here and the almost free pass Lampard has been given. Rowett couñd be bitter and probably wonders why he wasn’t given the same assurances.

But I'm sure he was. Mel would have stuck with his choice.

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, AdamRam said:

I personally couldn’t give a monkeys about him jumping ship, I made no bones about his playing style being awful and don’t care about what he said about this being his dream job, glad to see him go, don’t hold it against him I would never wish the sack on anyone.

Why Did he take a short term approach though, unless he already had the Stoke job lined up, getting rid of Hughes for example was just stupidity, getting to the play offs had been achieved by managers before him, so was it that big a deal, and did failing so spectacularly against Fulham look good on his CV. Was he thinking I’ll stay if we get promoted and jump if not?

Chairman will surely look at him now as well and think this is someone who will quite happily jump ship, if he can’t even commit for 6 months after signing on the dotted line, why should I have the risk of a rebuilding job for another manager by employing him?

As for the assurances, wasn’t a new contract excactly that?

Getting rid of Hughes was smart on his part if he didn’t have a plan to utilize him or know how to get the best out of him.

Rowett has his style of football, it’s what works for him. He isn’t suddenly going to make life more difficult for himself by changing his coaching methods and ethos for one player.

I blame Morris for Hughes leaving more than Rowett. Morris hired Rowett knowing what he was all about.

Rowett, wanting promotion right away as it looks better on his CV, went for immediate success with the signings of Huddlestone, Davies and Wisdom. He knew what he was getting. He didn’t need to coach those players.

In fairness to Rowett, the likes of Clement and Pearson took over better teams than he did. Getting to the playoffs last season IMO was an overachievement. 

He clearly wants PL football and the best for himself. Unless you are given time and assurances at clubs, you can’t blame managers for taking a short-term view.

[Bris Vegas]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But I'm sure he was. Mel would have stuck with his choice.

Trigger-happy Mel who sacks managers the moment they go on bad runs?

He wouldn’t have been given any assurances, especially after the downfall in the latter part of the season and the support for his style of football waning.

Mel listens to the fans, arguably too much. What other possible reason was there to sacking Mac ll? 

[Rev]

4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Trigger-happy Mel who sacks managers the moment they go on bad runs?

He wouldn’t have been given any assurances, especially after the downfall in the latter part of the season and the support for his style of football waning.

Mel listens to the fans, arguably too much. What other possible reason was there to sacking Mac ll? 

I can't remember any groundswell of support for McClaren to be sacked.